- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
Sorry to beat the same drum in a short amount of time, but this is where thinking Biden wasn’t doing enough has led. Perfect being the enemy of the good and all. Explicit calls for ethnic cleansing were at least not on the table with the last administration.
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Explicit calls for ethnic cleansing were at least not on the table with the last administration.
Trump: we should ethnically cleanse Gaza
Democrats: 👏 HIRE 👏 MORE 👏 FEMALE 👏 GENOCIDE 👏 DENYING 👏 PRESS 👏 SECRETARIES 👏
With that sense of humour, I believe you’re qualified to work in a '90s newsroom. Be sure to let us know how that goes.
Yeah, why does that comment have so many upvotes? Huh. Weird.
Jordan, Egypt or “other places”
How about Florida?
Palestinians are entirely too reasonable to be able to conform to Florida expectations.
Get what you mean, but let’s not be that cruel to make them deal with Floridans or hurricanes and flooding
Democrats and Republicans, the two sides of the same imperialist coin.
People really didn’t understand how thin the line Kamala and Joe had to walk was. They need financing to win elections they can’t be hyper libs so aggressively or they wouldn’t have help from shitty corporate evil America
Anyone who fell for the genocide joe shit would fall flat on their face in a political world.
i think the genocide joe libs were a strawman. everyone I know who was basing their decisions on the gaza genocide understood that Trump would be worse, and all of them decided to vote for Harris in the end anyway. If you personally know anyone who did actually abstain their vote over this issue, feel free to prove me wrong.
But to this point, you have to ask yourself: if Dems are doing almost all of the same evil shit as Republicans, but in a friendlier package, what is the point of voting for the Dems? If the billionaires have bought everyone on either side of the aisle, how can I trust any candidate to make votes that are in my best interest? Why should I be forced to vote for one of two candidates that are both bought and paid for by shitty corporate evil America? Trump isn’t an abberation - we got here because Dems refuse to stop playing the SuperPAC game. By refusing to take any action that might scare off donors, they set the stage for our current crisis. They aren’t the ones dismantling our government as we speak, but they ignored all the signs and continued governing as if we are still in the 90s, because none of the heinous shit they vote for actually affects them.
I mean, that’s the conversation we need to be having as a country. Not to toot my own horn, but I warned about this in a column at the turn of the century that became known as my “Spam and kumquats” piece, arguing that if those are the only two things in the store, you’ll eventually think one is your favourite food.
On one hand, you’re not wrong.
On the other, getting a combo of “Congress + Senate + Supreme Court + Administration” controlled by the same people who walk around with Nazi flags, make Nazi salutes, call people “sub-human”, plan mass deportations… kind of goes beyond “shitty corporate evil”.
Read that list of executive orders and tell me again how the Democrats are just like the Republicans.
Why should you be forced to pick one? This isn’t some game design decision by the developers of your favorite MMO. You’re forced to pick one because you don’t have the spine to do anything else that can get results.
Are you out there being the change in the Democratic party? Are you out there forcing change with your actions? Are you actually doing something to have a choice between something other than two parties?
Or are you just passively sitting back and complaining that nobody gave you the choice you’d rather make? The level of helplessness in the decision to just let everyone around you suffer because you don’t like the choices that your utter passivity has presented you with is absolutely wild.
This isn’t a game. This isn’t a boycott. This is our planet, our species, and our lives. Real people, likely including yourself, will suffer because you refuse to do anything but wait for someone to come hand you a warm bottle of milk that you won’t turn your nose up at. But you’d rather starve and scream and then say “look what you did by failing to give me the choice I would rather have had.”
Y’all need to wake up.
Are you out there being the change in the Democratic party? Are you out there forcing change with your actions? Are you actually doing something to have a choice between something other than two parties?
We live in a world of specialization of labor. That is how civilizations are built. I don’t have to be a blacksmith to know that a crooked nail is a poorly made one. I don’t have to be a doctor to know that a witch doctor is not a real physician. I don’t have to be a politician to know when a politician is utterly failing at their job.
They just didn’t want to vote. It was low hanging fruit to glob on to.
How well did that work for them? They had a billion dollar campaign, most of which was utterly wasted on advertising in already-saturated TV markets and pointless celebrity endorsements. Maybe they could have accepted less corporate money, been content with a mere $500 million campaign, and not driven their base away.
I think you mean “how did it work for us?”.
You have to live in this world too. Every person who decided they’d rather let Trump win than vote for Harris still has to inhabit this world and has to watch the shit they ushered into it. Americans who decided they care more about making a point than about the actual material results of the election have that blood on their hands just like the actual Trump voters do.
I think you fail to understand that 2024 was not the anomaly. 2020 was the anomaly. The Democratic Party, as it exists now, is fundamentally incapable of winning a presidential election. They are as incapable of it as the Libertarian or the Green Parties are. We currently have only a single viable party for the US presidential election.
DNC milquetoast centrism has been electorally dead since at least 2012. It failed in 2016, 2020, and 2024. Biden only managed to win in 2020 not because of his platform or message, but simply because of covid. Make no mistake, if not for covid, Trump would have easily won in 2020. They’ve been selling the same slop since Clinton ran in 1992. And the brand is old and tired.
There weren’t actually that many people who wanted to stop the Palestinian genocide but then voted for Trump. The vast, vast majority of the people you saw pleading online for Biden to do something ended up voting for Kamala. I certainly did.
Did Trump make inroads among the Muslim community? Sure. But he also made inroads among the Hispanic community. The anti-trans ads got way more Muslim votes for Trump than Biden’s Gaza policy ever did. The truth is just as plenty of Hispanic voters will vote for an anti-immigrant candidate, plenty of Muslim voters will vote for an anti-Palestine candidate. Palestine is just one of many nations in the Middle East. It’s supremely racist to lump all Muslims together as a single monolith and think all they care about is Palestine.
People were pleading with Kamala to make a change because it was one of the few opportunities she had to actually win the race. The DNC centrism is a politically dead philosophy. A radical departure from past policies was needed to give her any chance of victory. Making a hard break from Israel was just such a chance. It was one of the few slim chances she had to actually pull off this win. People were pleading with her to change policy on Gaza because they were trying to help her win. But she ignored them, and she also failed to make any meaningful change on any other substantial issue. Because of that she lost.
Kamala didn’t lose because of Gaza. She was already destined to lose before Gaza. But changing policy on Gaza was a squandered opportunity that could have saved her otherwise doomed campaign. It was an opportunity to make a clear sign saying, “I’m something new, let’s strike a new course.” But she decided to campaign with Liz Cheney instead. And she secured her place in Hell because of it.
Damn, it’s too bad the average citizen is who participates in elections and not only political masterminds. I guess nobody could have known to account for that.
I mean, I’ve been homeless for nearly a year and a half and saw this coming. You don’t have to be some political savant.
It takes half a brain cell to look at your options and know the one is far worse for anything you support than another. It takes two brain cells to know politicians are held to their financial benefactors.
If your conclusion is “non voters are just stupid” without examining what in their lives led to them feeling like their vote won’t matter or count (with reason, in some cases) you’re not really doing anything other than venting about losing.
We don’t only live in a nation that is heavily propagandized and with a suppressed vote when Republicans have the presidency, that’s true all the time. Until we fix that and other issues with our political system, a portion of voters won’t be able to be (or have a reason to be) engaged.
So the solution to a society that’s propagandized to the point that people legitimately think allowing Trump to have the white house is ‘no different’ from making sure he doesn’t get it is… not trying to convince anyone that they’ve been misled? Not trying to point out how utterly foolish that kind of thinking is?
Literally just: don’t fight the propaganda machine? Let it happen meekly and quietly? Don’t spend any energy on trying to point out how utterly stupid it is to allow the worse option because you don’t absolutely love the marginally better one that will save lives?
Not sure how you could read my comments and come to the conclusion that I’m ready to just lay down and die ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Who needs to be a political mastermind?
I remember when it was a foregone conclusion that Nazis were pieces of shit and their ideology deserved no quarter.
I explicitly learned this in fucking elementary school.
Exactly. That we’re even having a discussion (as a country) about whether Nazi ideology is OK is an alarming development.
You voted for this. And many people here are responsible.
Removed by mod
Oh, goy … you actually went there.
The answer to violence or evil committed by a subset of semitic people is not antisemitism.
Palestinians are semites, despite Israel erasure of the name from them.
I’m so fucking sick of people not understanding what the words they’re lobbing mean. Of course Palestinians are Semitic. Everyone in the Middle East with minor exceptions is. And having had Palestinian friends over the years, they aren’t against Israel existing as a concept; they’d just like some (proportion varies) of their land back and to be treated with dignity. I don’t see that as a huge ask.
JQ-ing? Really?
Letting them destroy the whole place was step 1. I guess everybody’s seen the pictures.
“Thinking Biden didn’t do enough led us here” is an insane thing to say. Voting for Trump led us to step 2. You’re not even sure the people you are blaming did vote for Trump, are you? Stop the blame game and focus.
I’m not here to defend the prior administration. I just find it almost comical that anyone thought Trump would be an improvement if not for the drastic outcomes we’re going to see. Bluntly, I think he wants the strip cleared out so that he and the Kushners can get some cheap real estate. The only thing that matters to him is self enrichment.
If you believe this is an improvement, that’s certainly your right, but I don’t see it.
I just find it almost comical that anyone thought Trump would be an improvement if not for the drastic outcomes we’re going to see.
OK…just to make sure I understand you correctly - the people you’re mad at, are people who either voted for Trump, or didn’t vote at all, because of their opinions about Biden’s response to the genocide in Gaza.
if that’s accurate, two questions:
a) what is your estimate for the size of that group of people?
b) how many actual individual people in that group can you identify by name? how many do you know personally? (vs having read a news story quoting them)
Counterpoint: What’s the relevance of either of those questions for an election that happened three months ago? I don’t like relitigating unspooled events.
You’re welcome to your opinion that Biden or Harris would have been worse, but the facts don’t bear that out at all. I’m not mad at people; I’m somewhat surprised Pikachu that anyone thought this would not be the net result and vote accordingly.
Projecting your political beliefs and rationales on others is not Beeing Nice. Your takeaway is not at all what I said, no matter how much you’d like it to be.
I’m certainly mad at people.
What’s the relevance of either of those questions for an election that happened three months ago? I don’t like relitigating unspooled events.
my brother in Cthulhu, you started this post by saying:
this is where thinking Biden wasn’t doing enough has led.
you should decide if you’re for or against re-litigating things
Projecting your political beliefs and rationales on others is not Beeing Nice.
meanwhile, one paragraph above, you’re projecting an opinion onto me that I don’t have:
You’re welcome to your opinion that Biden or Harris would have been worse
my brother in Cthulhu
Ew. I think I just cringed 10 years off my life.
Go back to reddit.
I don’t think many people actually thought Trump would be an improvement, aside from the Christian nationalists.
When your life is misery, a chance, any chance, no matter how small, can often be or at least seem worth it. Rents are through the roof, pay is stagnant, health insurance is complete scam, and people have lost any hope of improving their lives. For tens of millions of people, the probability of them ever actually improving their lot in life is next to zero.
Someone comes along and says, “I’ll smash the current order to pieces and reshuffle the entire deck.”
Imagine you’re a person in desperate straits. You think that overall, that potential leader will be a net negative society. But in the current system, the probability of anything improving in your life is zero. With a complete shuffling of the societal deck, well your odds aren’t great, but they are non-zero. You’re not going to end up an oligarch, but maybe you’ll be one of the minority that ends up slightly better off. After all, some ordinary German citizens did actually materially benefit from the Nazis. Most didn’t, but some got lucky.
This is why many people aside from Christian nationalists voted for Trump. The saw him as someone would would come along and knock over the Jenga tower of the existing sociopolitical order. They knew that the odds of their life being directly improved by this were slim. But they thought a slim chance was still there. And if nothing else, it would punish the bastards who have been keeping them down for years.
This is the fatal flaw with milquetoast Democratic centrism. It ignores that if you go long enough without actually helping millions of people who really need help, eventually those desperate people will vote to burn it all down out of sheer spite.
Is such a vote rational? No. But human beings are not rational. Human beings are not perfect utilitarian optimization engines. They vote with their hearts and souls, with both hope and rage. And that is what Democrats have repeatedly failed to realize.
But Biden!!!
Sure biden wouldn’t have explicitly called for ethnic cleansing but he was and would continue sending them all the bombs they needed to do it while supporting all of their propaganda. The only difference is rhetoric and speed.
Why are you angry at the voters who “failed the party” and not at the party for failing to attract voters?
It’s not my fault I shot myself in the foot. Someone should have provided me with a better pair of shoes.
No I can’t be bothered to take up cobbling.
“No, this pair of shoes must be better, it’s from that brand I like! I know it’s made of cardboard and duct tape, but I swear, it’s from that brand I like, so it has to be better!”
Trump said 1.5 million lived in the strip now. It was 2.3 million before. I guess you’re saying that was acceptable under Biden, then. That’s a lot of killed people to feel gloat over.
They’re supposed to represent us. Not the other way around.
No. They’re supposed to be a means for us to make intelligent decisions that keep the world from being as bad as it possibly could be. They’re a means of exerting our influence other than spilling blood.
Is it better when they represent us? Yes. Is it better when we have access to politicians who actually have a substantial moral compass and aren’t swayed by money? Absolutely.
But does that mean that if we don’t have that we should throw childish fits and sabotage our own world in response? Absolutely not.
Want to know a good way to make sure that politicians actually focus on representing the interests of their electorate?
…Become a politician and do it. Put your money where your mouth is. Instead of having a tantrum and letting the worst possible person literally light the government on fire, go be the change you want to see.
Or, if you’re not willing to do that, use your intelligence to make the world as good as you can with the limited power that you have instead of lying on the ground kicking and screaming because nobody’s doing it for you.
Now you see the problem here is I never expected better shoes, I knew damn well no one would give them to me. I also despise the insinuation that the democrats provided protection of any kind
So become a cobbler.
Why are you quoting something miles away from anything that I said?
My apologies, that wasn’t a quote it was meant to imply sarcasm. I was saying failed the party in a facetious sense because I don’t believe anyone actually failed them.
The Democratic Party failed with their lurch toward neoliberalism in the '90s in the face of Gingrich. NAFTA was virulently antilabour, and things didn’t get better from there, with the next domino being WTO shit.
Except… just not to.
Maybe the golden toilet guy doesn’t understand, but you can endure unpleasant things. I pretty much believe the people of Gaza will never leave their home alive - many wouldn’t given the chance, and the other Arab countries don’t need more than that not to take them in.
