- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/59469059
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To make this clear: Patreon is a platform mainly used by creators, artists, musicians to get a reliable income directly from their fans. Apple is trying to steal 30% of the income of our favorite artists.
Good thing none of us have iPhones here, right, guys? Right?
Honestly I wouldn’t touch Apple products with a bargepole. I dislike closed ecosystems
I always end up with MacBooks after startups and love to have something I can just pick up and use whereas my PC is my command center. Most of my shit is web or local web services so just need a Mozilla terminal. Also, I can’t fathom buying one out of pocket. I’ve also never had an iPhone, it doesn’t make sense to my brain.
So…if you’re just using web stuff, you could probably save a heap by using a Chromebook. That’s what my wife’s personal laptop is and is perfect for web stuff (and has the option of Android apps too, like Mozilla). It’s not her only computer though.
Why the hell did you get so downvoted??? Yeah, that’s not a bad point in any way but recall my use case - never bought anything per se, just ended up with 😁
Its not closed
The door is just very very tiny
You’d rather be spied on constantly by the largest panopticon ever created, because they allow sideloading.
Honestly this is voting for Trump over Kamala; we need a viable alternative. Why have they taken personal computing from us?
You can deGoogle Android if you want, hopefully better alternatives, that don’t suck, like Linux Phone™ 🙏 arrive before too long.
Except all the posts I see about degoogling start with purchasing Google hardware.
other options besides graphene exist, like lineage OS that work on a ton of different phones. and sure graphene requires google hardware but nobody says you have to buy the hardware from google direct. buying used is different than buying from google
It’s also an option many people would be fine with. I’m okay with Google having my money. Paying companies for products is perfectly fine. I just don’t want them to have my data and invade my privacy
No, I’d rather use my device like I want to use my device instead of how I’m told to use it. I don’t need to sideload on this device but glad I can if and when I want to. I prefer having a computer with me rather than a purposely stunted device kept that way to sell other devices in the ecosystem.
Were being spied on regardless, better to choose the option that allows one to do the most with it. If I could throw together my own phone and run a Linux variant on then I fucken would, but as it phone hardware is ass and Linux mobile doesn’t exist for my phone.
You can’t logic people out of an emotional decision. The hatred of Apple runs deep.
The obviousness of this is how Android users troll Apple discussions but Apple users don’t troll Android discussions.
They have insanely strong opinions on what other’s choices that it borderline religious.
Apple cultists bully other people all the time. I mean you’re literally doing it right now while also blatantly lying about it.
This is a discussion about apple not android.
Pointing out a behavior trend isn’t bullying.
Definetly not, wayyyy to closed.
Been locked in this ecosystem for a while guys. I’m not proud of it.
Never too late to switch to GrapheneOS.
It’s better than the alternatives, unfortunately. I really want to dump Apple; the products are waning in quality and the company is spending a lot of time genuflecting for king tangerine. But it just works.
“Just install grapheneOS” my brother in Christ, I have no time or interest in fucking up with the primary communication device I rely on to reach family, friends, and work. I don’t have time for the hobbies I want to do let alone adding work-adjacent activities under the cloak of a hobby.
The ecosystem is really seamless, especially with a MacBook and Apple watch in the mix.
Though I don’t think there is any winning in the smartphone space. There is a duopoly and even if you personally use graphineOS you still are benefitting and helping the Google ecosystem by using Android apps.
Sadly I don’t think we can “vote with our wallets” on smartphones. We need legal legislation that forces both Apple and Google to be consumer friendly.
Installing graphene was not like flashing a ROM ten years ago. You just follow the simple steps on the web installer.
When for xiaomi…jpg
I’d love to jump ship.
Just buy a Fairphone from Murena with /e/OS preinstalled. You don’t have to do anything yourself. It mainly works like a phone without any issues, all the features I need work on it and I didn’t have to install it manually and supported the devs
Nothing would prevent you from communicating with a Graphene OS phone. It’s a smartphone OS, not compiling Arch here…
But use whatever excuse you can find to stay in the Apple ecosystem, that’s fine.
It totally could and probably would. I am a phone OS tinkerer myself, but the above poster is right that it is a lot of hobbyist type tinkering and you can brick your device and fuck it up so you can’t communicate with your friends and family.
I agree with the main sentiment that these alternative OSs for phones and computers are a lot better in a lot of ways, but we are unwise to act like getting your computer or phone that way is that easy. Trying to get an alternative OS working well on a device can very easily consume an entire waking day or more, and bricking is not impossible, especially with phones.
I really think this move blows and I wish they would reverse this decision and make an exception.
However Tim Cook didn’t wake up one day and wonder how he could fuck creators. Apple takes a 30% cut of all app transactions. This is how they benefit from the enormous and highly successful app platform and ecosystem they created. It’s not pure evil to say “hey use this platform all you want but you must share some of what you make there with us.”
It does suck that they won’t let creators off the hook though. This is like taxing rips.
The platform is enormous and highly successful solely because it is a monopoly in the Apple ecosystem
I guarantee you if other app stores were allowed on Apple devices, they would take significant market share with a far smaller cut of revenue
There are alternative App Stores in Europe for iOS. So far they haven’t been very successful, because of Apple‘s interference. They do exist and are growing.
Yeah, hopefully Patron doesn’t roll over and just removes the option to do it in iPhone. Taking away functionality will make Apple look bad, which they deserve.
They already caved.
On Wednesday, Patreon said Apple has renewed its requirement that all Patreon creators must move to subscription billing. The deadline to do so is November 1, 2026.
It’s silly that they don’t just operate from the browser. It’s how I use Patreon on my (admittedly not iPhone) Phone.
They should have just pulled Patreon from the app store.
It’s not like it’s such an impediment to ask users to use their browser.
In an ideal world we would not have monopolies controlling app stores, but I think Patreon is really stupid for not just abandoning the app store.
I didn’t even know there was a Patreon app. I signed up through the website. On a computer. Old school.
Why does Apple feel they deserve a 30% cut? In cases like this, Apple aren’t providing any value at all.
- Apple aren’t providing the content - the creator is.
- Apple aren’t providing a platform for the content - Patreon is.
- Apple aren’t providing a platform for discovery - people aren’t finding Patreon creators solely via Apple products.
Sure, Apple are providing a payments platform, but why do they deserve 10x what Stripe charges?
It’s just platform-milking, just like Meetup.com’s latest antics; there isn’t deep analysis needed to everything, haha. “Capitalism” is totally a legitimate answer despite being just one word.
Meetup is now owned by Bending Spoons, who have also enshittified wetransfer, Evernote, eventbrite, AOL, vimeo. They buy decent products that never exploded to ipo status, fire everyone and milk the rest for whatever they can charge.
Why does one company need to own meetup and eventbrite?
Is that not a monopoly? How does it not violate any anti-trust laws?
Edit to add: how long before we see a fediverse events app?
There is one, Mobilizon
You got a link to what meetup has been up to?
No, but I used to be more active until I saw that they started to increasingly prevent you from talking to other participants, and even seeing who other people are (can’t even tell gender or anything) unless you paid for their higher tier. I literally saw it get added out of the blue after years of no such restrictions, and they’ve only dug deeper and deeper. I couldn’t even connect with someone with whom I met just because I didn’t attempt to get their number immediately on the spot.
Thank you. I havent used meetup in 10 or so years. Cant remember paid features then. People also had a profile, with a picture, so as you could see interests and groups they were part of, there was also a message board for the group and messaging members wasnt an issue. Sad to see what its become.
Yeah, we can no longer msg other participants without paying. I guess they’ve picked up on it having dating potential since it has a “Single” designation so it may get added to Match’s ever-growing portfolio down the years, haha.
They were sued by Epic Games for the same shit and Epic won on one count which allows them to put links to alternative payment methods and go around Apple.
So couldn’t patreon just argue in court that this precedent was already set with epic?
That is how case law works, yes.
I’m just wondering then why Apple would even push this if a president was already set with Epic. What a bunch of greedy corporate bastards.
Expecting Patreon to not want to bother fighting them over it, and they are correct in that assumption.
On Wednesday, Patreon said Apple has renewed its requirement that all Patreon creators must move to subscription billing. The deadline to do so is November 1, 2026.
Edit, adding my source: https://www.engadget.com/big-tech/patreon-creators-have-to-switch-to-subscription-billing-by-november-thanks-to-apple-203759852.html
They provide the payment system. They also mandate it.
If you subscribe on the website you don’t have to pay the extra. It’s only for subscriptions initiated via the app
An app you can only get via the Apple store, mandated by Apple?
Why does Apple feel they deserve a 30% cut?
Because they can. Time and time again, useful idiots have proven their dipshittery by sucking off the people taking them for a ride.
A main tenant of business decisions is to fuck over your customers as hard as they’re willing to be fucked. Since nobody has any standards these days, corporations make a killing.
This is THE way that Apple gets any revenue from the enormous and highly successful app platform and ecosystem they created. They say “go nuts, make money on our platform, but share some with us in exchange for our maintaining that platform.” This is reasonable. Apple is providing a service to Patreon, and access to their tremendous user base. That ain’t nothing.
I agree that subjecting creator donations to the 30% is about the shittiest use case for this and I wish they would make an exception. But your post about how Apple is doing absolutely nothing here is garbage.
Apple is doing nothing in this particular case, not in general. There’s cases where the 30% is more justified.
Oh is there some case where Apple is creati by the content inside the app??? Do tell.
I meant more if people wouldn’t have found your app without Apple’s App Store. In that case, they’re essentially handling marketing for you.
Being in the AppStore gives you access to a lot of people. I don’t feel it’s at all relevant whether you happen to also have other exposure elsewhere. Apple charges you for the exposure you get from them, period. If you don’t want to pay for it, because you’re so successful on other channels, just don’t. Don’t have an iOS app. But for years we’ve had people who want an iOS app but also want to complain about sharing what they make from it. They still make too much to be willing to pull their app, but they complain anyway: because who doesn’t want higher margins.
So, all business is becoming a protection racket?
Gotta love walled gardens! /s
I hope Patreon will just switch off the ability to pay through the iOS app, along with a nice fuck you-message to Apple that pops up when you first open the app
Last time this came up Patreon simply allowed the creators to charge the commission directly on top of the price for non apple users, or eat the 30% loss. So everyone not using iOS would pay, say, $5/month, iOS users would pay $5+30%. Hope they retain that option.
Your math is wrong. If you want the creator to still get $5 with apple stealing 30% you would need to pay ~43% extra.
$5/0.7 = $7.14
1/0.7 = 1.42857
Ya a few apps already do this. YouTube premium does for sure and I have heard a few others doing so.
That’s actually a good solution
Yeah, I remember cause my Patreon account asked me what I wanted to do about apple trying to steal my money
p.s. I never push Patreon so have no subs lol
Is it? Previously this was considered tips
Now it’s 30% for what? Running a payment gateway and hiding an unsubscribe button deep in the App Store UI.
Competitively payment gateways charge 1-3%, but when you lock down a platform you can charge 10x that.
That would be nice, but when Apple says “jump,” all the other businesses ask “how high?”
The world is full of morons with more money than sense.
I fucking hate mega corps. It’s never fucking enough… Ever… Apple has more money than some countries yet these assholes want ever more…
Tax all these assholes into oblivion!
“Don’t hate the player, hate the game.” – Karl Marx
The game is made up of dipshit players mostly working against their own interests.
I reserve the right to hate apple regardless, thank you.
I agree, but don’t let it distract you from how much capitalism sucks balls comrade
To follow this logic: if you use an e-banking app, Apple will soon claim to be entitled to 30% of all transactions. Same for paypal, ebay, you name it
Well call it tithe for your digital overlord.
God only asks for 10%… shows you what Apple thinks of themselves.
Apple charges 30% when you sell digital goods within an app. That’s not the same as moving money in your bank account or buying something on eBay.
It’s still robbery, but it’s not the same.
When people subscribe, they typically get something digital in return on Patreon.
So 30% tax on buying digital goods on ebay?
Does eBay sell digital goods?
I’d kinda expect the answer to be yes if so if you use the ebay app? If not, I’m actually surprised.
I’m not sure but I’m wondering if a key counts?
Like a digital game key? I’d say yes.
If it’s not a big part of eBay though, I can see that maybe sneaking past as Apple might consider the app as selling physical goods and overlook a small portion of digital?
@Sine_Fine_Belli 😡 Tim Cook is a bad man. Do not federate with him!
That’s how the system works. You don’t expect Walmart to not get a commission when you sell something at their store.
30% is reasonable. DEAL WITH IT.
Don’t like it? Make your own phone and platform.
Opening up the comments on macrumors never disappoints me :)
See? Apple users are dumb as a sack of diapers and deserve to be taken advantage of accordingly.
Yes! Exploit the morons as much as they’re willing to be exploited!
None of them have the brains/balls to fight back.
This is the second phase of enshittification. They are hurting yhe businesses with this, not the consumer.
Why isn’t Apple trying to take 30% of all purchases through the Amazon app? Or eBay? Or your local grocery delivery? It’s the same exact thing. Such a stupid greedy fucking attempt
Next they’ll take 30% on every transaction through my banking app.
kinda like how youtube takes massive cut of ad revenue, which is why they switch to patreon, brand deal and promotions. 30% is pretty steep for small content creators, that isnt peddling right wing grifting.
Think. Of. The. Shareholders.
No
I’m an Apple shareholder and think this is a great way to lose engagement and revenue
Why? Haven’t you noticed the apple userbase is filled with morons who are proud to make rich people richer?
There are a few EU alternatives. Why are those not being considered.
LiberaPay is one.
Why are those not being considered.
Because people are stupid 🤷.
I’ve never heard of them. They look kinda neat, you’re still paying the processor fees, but they can save you a few percent.
Timmy Cook is just a bean counter. He’s got nothing to innovate or build. That’s Apple has been buying back shares non stop. Their lead designer jumped ship a while ago. It’s only a matter of time.
They still have wicked hardware, nobody is near their M5 performance/watt though
Good perf per watt, but super expensive, walled garden, internally spying and nearly unrepairable.
