let’s gooo
And if they don’t vote, it won’t matter.
But both sides are the same or my vote is worthless or it’s too hard to vote or something
That said, election day not being a federal holiday is a crime.
In Australia it’s always on a Saturday, and it’s compulsory to vote. Works OK for us.
that sounds like a way for democracy to actually represent the will of the public. DEFINITELY not what they want in the U.S.
In Canada, we get mail in voting, advanced voting and voting stations are everywhere. I’ve never had to wait more than 5 mins to vote and the closet voting station is a 2 min drive from my house. They’re also open late and most employers give us time off to vote. Not sure if there’s a law for that but voting here is easy af yet some people still don’t bother.
In Finland it’s on Sunday. And with I think two weeks to vote beforehand.
Which, while a good idea, still screws over the working class that don’t get federal holidays off. In fact in many industries they are mandatory work days because of the increased business.
State and federal opt-out mail ballots for all I say.
It is genuinely too difficult in some places thanks to voter suppression.
if you think both parties are the same you’re living in a fkn alternate reality. Only one part is seeking to end democracy in America and set up reeducation camps
Yeah, those are all actually true.
Yes, but political engagement can’t revolve around voting.
It’s shit. You have to navigate a beurocracy and don’t even always have choices down the ballot. And when you do, you often have no idea who the candidates are beyond some half baked Facebook page. It’s also a huge burnout pit. Put months of stress into a binary outcome you can barely control. And even that is if you’re engaged in canvassing and etc, otherwise it’s just a chore.
Youth need to be mobilized in long term action projects. Something like Encode Justice for example, where they make civic engagement a part of their daily life, is far superior. It’s also harder, but that comes with doing something actually impactful.
Things can change, though. California voted for an open primary in 1996 (think that was the year) and now you can participate in either one. Prior to that, you could only vote in the primary for the party you registered with.
Sadly some of them are republican
Not sure why you’re being downvoted - you’re 100% correct. People voting against their own demographic is nothing new.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews
So help them vote. Volunteer with efforts to get out the youth vote. Push for universal mail in voting where you are, or at least early voting. Help get politicians and initiatives on the ballot that they actually care about.
Shaming and complaining about the demographic you want to reach accomplishes nothing.
Obligatory-
If you are a legal resident of Wisconsin, and are not currently serving time or on paper, you can register to vote entirely online if you want, and you can request absentee ballots for all elections for the entire year (no reason needed, but necessary annual renewal, it’s my New Year’s resolution every year because it’s so easy to accomplish. entirely free of charge ofc.).
Just go to www.myvote.wi.gov to register, request absentee ballots, check your registration, or find your polling place. If you have any difficulty with your registration, you can find your local rep and contact them directly.
Please vote. Please vote for your own wellbeing. Please.
Edits to fix link redirect per convo below
This is why I love Washington. Everyone has an OPT OUT absentee ballot. Everyone gets one at your address. Every election. All the time. The same address that’s on your ID. It’s amazing.
I’ve been helping my fellow zoomers by figuring out what their townships/town wards/city districts are, then what their local/state/federal legislative/executive/judicial districts are, then who’s running for what position, then where to vote and (primaries and generals).
Information is power!
I hope things will change, but we still have abysmal turnout. TX started allowing early voting over 40 years ago and we still struggle to get people to the polls. Early voting is a span of 2 weeks, where in the 1st week, polls are required to be open for at least 9 hours and can be open from 6 AM to 10 PM on the weekday and shortened hours on the weekend, and in the 2nd week, polls are required to be open at least 12 hours a day and typically have the same hours as election day. Yet we still have virtually no lines through all early voting and a massive line on election day.
It doesn’t help that the news only bangs the final day of voting into peoples’ heads.
Many Republicans vote exactly on election day because they are being fed lies that early voting and mail in voting are riddled with fraud.
That explains a few people, but doesn’t explain why everyone else hasn’t been utilizing the early voting system for the 40 years prior to 2020. TX cities are pretty blue and their early voting lines are always very short.
Shame ✍️ demographics ✍️ for ✍️ helpful ✍️ advice
My state’s on it!
It doesn’t work. Every swiss citizen older than 18 receives them at home. The younger generation doesn’t vote.
I’m older now and the older I’m the more people of my age around me vote. It’s depressing. I try each time to make the younger vote but it’s not working. And, I didn’t miss one. Next one is the 3rd March. I will try again.
Don’t take me wrong if I convince if just one younger person, it’s a win.
You got this 🫡
Please get out and vote.
I really hope that they do.
Because I am worried about the camps.
We’re all worried about the camps.
Unless all these Gen Z kids actually fucking VOTE it won’t matter, because Boomers fucking do.
Oh, you think the choices are trash? Well fucking vote in the primaries then. Get involved at a local level, and start promoting candidates that represent you. Don’t just bitch and moan that the choice is between a codger and senile draft-dodger.
FPTP coupled with Electoral College means the only ethical vote is for the least problematic candidate.
Basic mafs. Simple as.
The reason nobody young is ever is involved with primaries is because it’s driven by corporate lobbyists. How are the youth supposed to get involved with that when they are competing against billions of dollars? The choices will always be trash until we end the lobbying. It doesn’t work with just promoting candidates that represent you. It involves massive sums of money that 99.9 percent of Americans will never touch.
Sanders came very close to winning the Democratic nomination two election cycles in a row, and his funding was largely individual donors, while Clinton and Biden were being funded by corporate interests. Sanders probably lost in 2016 because the DNC put it’s thumb on the scale; he lost in 2020 because many primary voters didn’t believe that he could win against Trump, and wanted a candidate that could peel away moderate Republicans. And that’s a national level.
At a local level, there’s a lot less money, so fucking start there, where it’s not being driven by greed.
Sanders came very close to winning the Democratic nomination two election cycles in a row,
That is some revisionist history, because he did not. He did better than any openly socialist candidate has in 100 years, but because of the rules of the DNC was not actually in contention at any point.
He came closer to winning than any other nonwinning candidate did in those two primaries.
2nd place is always “close” to winning, in a way
If Bernie was about to win the primary at any point, they would have did him like they did Bobby.
By paying attention to the media, reading platforms, thinking critically, and making it out on voting day.
You don’t need to get “involved” just go get registered and fkn vote, It has a much bigger net effect that holding up signs on a street.
When I was young, I participated in the primaries for Obama’s first election (Texas…). I was more or less put in my damn place by the older members and not allowed to have an opinion. It was Hillary this or that and racist comments otherwise. Seriously, Gen Y & Z need to participate, vote, and get involved at the primary and electoral college level or nothing is ever going to change. Don’t let those assholes decide who gets to run. I really really wonder what kind of impact those votes, in the areas that have true primaries, will have if we step up early.
We prefer millenial nomenclature thank you very much.
I literally have volunteered for local campaign offices every year since I turned 18. Don’t use cynicism to justify laziness
Lobbyists are a crucial part of the political process as far as educating legislators and their staff. Legislators cannot possibly know the workings, let alone the body of statutory and case law at play, with every activity and industry legislatures have to regulate and facilitate.
Seems like you realize the money they spread around is the problem: bundlers, megadonors, super PACs, dark money, financial and agency disclosure laws, etc., that’s where we need to start reforms.
Super this. Don’t care what anyone privately identifies as as long as it includes “voter” in the tag cloud.
Doesn’t help when the people who run the primaries go to court to ensure that they do what tf they want. 🤷
I agree there’s a history of young people not voting, but every presidential election year there’s a whole group of kids who were 14 at the time of the last election but are 18 for the current one.
Every four years since I can remember, that group of kids has been increasingly engaged politically, I think recent YouGov polls on this have been like very high, like 75% intend to vote and of those like 85% intend to vote more liberal candidates.
Trump was so bad, for everyone. Everyone remembers Trump’s wanton child separation policy, his partisan Supreme Court picks, his COVID failures, and his constant lies and vitriol. Even small children can see Trump for what he is, maybe even with more clarity than most adults. Point, people who were ten years to seventeen years old at the beginning of Trump’s presidency are eligible voters now. The Republicans see this tsunami coming at them. TV news has been calling it a blue wave to scare up red voters, but it’s really a youth wave.
At the same time, older conservative voters are dying off. Republicans know they will never fairly win another popular presidential election. Their plan is to steal the White House with lawfare or outright terrorism.
Personally, I am too emo to vote…
Said every election since ever and nothing changes. Pipe dreams, like a general strike.
Nothing changes because the people that say they want real, significant change never show up in enough numbers to get shit done. If gen Z really gives a shit, then they need to all get out and fucking work for it. I’ve voted in every election and every primary I’ve been eligible to, since turned 22. If 100% of the gen Z kids that are eligible to vote showed up to the primaries, they could get any candidate through that they wanted. Primaries typically attract far, far fewer voters than the general election does; in some states, primary participation is as low as 3% or eligible voters.
Why is turnout always so low?
turnout for young voters (at least in US history) has always been low, people don’t get into politics usually until they hit their 30s
Yeah, why? Follow up question, do you think it’s possible to change this significantly, and if so how?
I suspect that it’s a combination of things.
I think that one thing that would help is if your employer was required to give you paid time-off to vote in primary, local, state, and national elections, say, four hours of time, but only if you actually voted. I’ll bet voting rates woudl skyrocket.
Vote. Seriously. (If practical: get involved, too). The U.S. is currently in the middle of a large shift of generational power.
Many of these changes are fairly recent:
- 2020 was the first federal election where the Baby Boomers didn’t make up the largest voting generation.
- It was only in 2016 that the number Gen X and younger voting numbers grew larger than the boomer and older numbers.
- Those numbers had been possible since 2010. Despite having more eligible voters (135M vs 93M), the “GenXers and younger” only had ~36M actual voters, compared to ~57M older ones.
Looking forward, the numbers only get better for younger voters. There hasn’t been a demographic shift like this in the U.S. in a long time (ever?). The current power structures can not be maintained for much longer. It is still possible for that shift to be peaceful. Please encourage the peaceful transfer: vote. Vote in the primaries. Maybe even vote for better voting systems. This time is unique, but change takes time. Don’t let them fool you otherwise: that’s just them trying to hold on to their power.
Well, they have voted more in the last few elections. Just gotta hope they don’t get complicit and continue to show up.
Believing that nothing has changed is the most privileged form of cynicism in these threads. At ever conceivable time scale, there is plenty of progress.
There will never be a utopia. There will always be something to improve.
RIght, people just need to pick up a book and look at statistics on racism, sexism, etc and realize it’s better than it ever has been but the MAGAs are on the rise, panicking, and trying to set up a dictatorship with Trump, so go vote or lose it all.
Because people are already jumping to conclusions without reading the article. Here is the core of the survey data.
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/23/gen-z-less-religious-more-liberal-lgbtq
Identifying as Republican went from 32% in the Boomer Generation to 21% in Gen Z. Identifying as LGBTQ+ went from 4% with Boomers to 28% with Gen Z.
With the exception of millennials, who were born between 1981 and 1996, Gen Z adults are notably less likely than those in other generations to identify as conservative.
Or in simpler terms, both Millennials and Gen Z are equally less likely than those in other generations to identify as conservative.
It turns out that people don’t become more conservative as they age, they become more conservative as they gain wealth. Millennials and Gen Z aren’t.
Dude it’s plainly obvious, at least in my lived experience trying to reach 40. The Republicans I know who “became” republican all either
- Moved up in class (perceived or real)
- Became religious
- Legitimately has a mental illness
I am not saying this as a dig, and I am not saying all Republicans etc etc just the people who weren’t and then CHANGED THEIR MIND.
religious
Mental illness
You repeated the same thing twice.
Glad I wasn’t the only one to notice this haha
Settle down Bill Maher
I’m starting to move up my career ladder somehow, and I feel this. It’s very easy to be selfish and vote for less tax, taking advantage of the young and poor etc.
What’s keeping me insist to be on the progressive (?) or socialist side (which I believe is the right thing to do) is maybe I’ve had enough anger towards the ruling class while I was younger. Or I read enough reddit / fediverse posts from the working class.
What’s more important than the absolute number of your taxes is what they’re being spent on.
I personally like having a nice community to live in, my shit not being stolen, my family not getting mugged, etc. And that means investing in communities so they can be better, so then the people living there will get better jobs, and we all grow our economy and have nice places to live.
If one party is promising slightly lower taxes, but they want to spend those on militarizing the police and book banning committees, you’re not really getting much in return for your tax investment.
My experience mirrors yours. Those who are after material wealth in any context tend to be conservative and define themselves by their perceived successes more than by their personalities. Such people will fill that void with religion.
Get on board GenX. We’re the future and the soon to be majority, so you might as well join the club. We promise we’ll treat you better than the boomers treated you.
The issue is that if Republicans win they will make sure they will win every election from now on. They already started doing it (vote suppression for the black and Latinos for example).
I’m already here. Make sure you vote. 😁
Gen X will never be the majority, Millenials are greater in number. And the older ones will be 50 by the time the boomers disappear from power.
Because people are already jumping to conclusions without reading the article. Here is the core of the survey data. Identifying as Republican went from 32% in the Boomer Generation to 21% in Gen Z. Identifying as LGBTQ+ went from 4% with Boomers to 28% with Gen Z.
The conclusion I would have jumped to is that the percentage of Gen Z who identified as LGBTQ+ would be greater than that who identified as Republican. So it seems I don’t actually need to read it. 😜
28% LGBT is what seems dubious. Lot of spicy straights in that pool I suspect.
I think people are feeling more inclined to label themselves as LGBTQ when they’re heteroflexible as well as young people better recognizing things like the asexuality spectrum.
Nah, just more people admitting they’re bisexual.
Yeah that’s not right. No other poll shows it being that high, but they found one they “agree” with and used that number lol
The B part of LGBTQIA+ is doing some heavy lifting in this stat. And as usual there’s probably a lot of women who are straight but think they’re Bi because “Margot Robbie could probably get it if that was an option” kinda like a lot of guys who think admitting a guy looks good makes them gay
What’s a spicy straight?
Someone who is straight but tells people they are queer.
Republicans know this, and push culture war issues to drive certain voters out of their states/area.
Once the hateful boomers die out, the republican party will be finished. They know this and is why they have been focusing on voter suppression so much.
They’re more powerful and influential than you think - they’re not going anywhere. They might change their policies to suit the times (remember Lincoln was a Republican) but the so-called “Grand Old Party” ain’t going nowhere unfortunately.
If they pull a reverse Southern strategy and jump over and their become more left then the Democrats, I would be willing to vote for them. Also, hell freezing over might help with global warming.
It’s not the name that’s the issue. Whether they’re called “Democrat” or “Republican” doesn’t matter.
It’s their backwards-ass, regressive, hateful policies that I don’t vote for.
If they start saying they’re going to force companies to take accountability for their impact on the climate, pledge to give the country a UBI, and socialized healthcare, I’d vote for a “Republican” so fast that I’d need new tires.
If they start saying they’re going to force companies to take accountability for their impact on the climate, pledge to give the country a UBI, and socialized healthcare, I’d vote for a “Republican” so fast that I’d need new tires.
I’m willing to go along with that, but with the recognition that between now and when we both die of old age we’ve got a greater chance of seeing absolute proof of intelligent extraterrestrial life than we do of seeing this happen believably enough for either of us to actually pull that lever.
I remember seeing this comment on Digg while people speculated that W would be the last republican president elected for a generation.
To be fair, he didn’t win his first election by getting the most votes, and neither did Trump.
The Republicans realized during the Reagan administration that they would soon be unable to win the presidency with a majority of votes and took many steps to undermine the Democratic process. Voter suppression, purges, intimidation, voter ID laws, all of that began with Reagan.
Bush the elder was the last to win a “democratic” victory. If it weren’t for 9/11, Bush wouldn’t have been able to win his second election either. That fact always blows my mind. Like people rallied around the incompetent fool who managed to ignore warnings and let a terrorist strike happen only to then go on and invade the wrong country multiple times and spend trillions of dollars on nothing.
I don’t disagree. I’m just calling out the whole “things will change when conservatives start dying off” trope because people have been banking on that for 20 years.
They keep living!
" ya don’t change horses midstream 🤠" was a literal campaign ad phrase back then I remember
Boomers have a lot of lead accumulated in their brains, not entirely their fault
That was so dumb. We literally had a President die in office during the biggest war humanity has ever seen, and we still won. Not only that, but Truman was kept out of the loop on a lot of things (“What’s the Manhattan Project all about?”).
If the US president got elected by getting the most votes, there wouldn’t have been a Republican since Bush senior. I really don’t understand why electoral reform is not higher on the political agenda in the US.
Having it based purely on a popular vote will still wind up with a 2 party system. Ranked voting needs to be implemented. All of the benefits of a popular vote, with actual checks and balances to elevate 3rd parties.
This was the deal with the devil that people in the North made with people in the South to convince people in the South to join them in a government specifically set up to defy the British. The US as a democracy has always failed because it was designed to give ultimate executive power to the states rather than to the people.
The Democratic party and Republican party are united in their opposition to electoral reform because they both benefit the most from it.
Because the DNC enjoys power more than democracy and does not allow such things to happen.
Or because it would take a constitutional amendment. The only way around that would be making the electoral college irrelevant via the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact which has largely only been signed by democratic leaning states. In fact, of the states that have passed it, zero have been right leaning.
There are certainly shitty corporate democrats that do fall into your category but to say the party as a whole is that way is ignorant.
The DNC would actually benefit here because the popular vote would always bring in a Democrat. It’s the small, red states that will never let change happen because Wyoming enjoys having more direct representation than California.
The PEOPLE would benefit since they are the ones doing the voting, not the states. It is just as ridiculous that Republicans in California have little say in the presidency as Democrats in Wyoming.
It is just as ridiculous that Republicans in California have little say in the presidency as Democrats in Wyoming.
The Republicans in California have a better chance of seeing a Republican president with the electoral college than they would with a national popular vote, even if their particular votes carry less weight. In a sense that gives them more representation in the end, not less—their voices are ignored but they get what they wanted anyway.
These things are not mutually exclusive.
That must be why Republican-dominated states have passed the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. /s
So far he’s the last to win the popular vote (and only for his second term).
It’s important to remember that collapse doesn’t happen overnight, and then suddenly it does. It takes a great deal of times for cracks to form and a structure to fall, but once it goes, it goes.
They nearly overrode the vote last time around. They faced no consequences and they’re very close to being in a position to do it again and make lasting changes to seize power forever. Nothing good is guaranteed.
And they’re rewriting education including made up history to ensure that more kids are conservative in future generations. Things aren’t looking good.
They faced no consequences
Except the 200+ people who were convicted and are currently sitting in jail.
And, as cynical as we might be, we have to remember that Trump’s various trials are not over yet.
Ues. The pawns were convicted and the people with actual power faced no consequences. The ringleader could very well be elected president where he ignored the law consistently. His trials keep getting delayed and the corrupt judge he appointed keeps helping him. It’s very scary times.
They literally have plans on concentration camps for reeducation into christofascism.
There are still plenty of ignorant and angry Gen X and Millenials. I agree that the GOP is finished, and it’s only a matter of time. There will always be stupid people to pick up their mantle, however.
Plenty ignorant Gen Z while we’re on the top, ain’t nothing special about y’all. Vote democrat or you’re just helping Trump turn America fascists and then the reeducation camps will start
I’m Gen X, but thanks. I work with university students and trust me that everyone else is a dinosaur.
Tdont kid yourself, look at the numbers, Trump is propped up by gen x. The demographic loudest against biden are gunna be around a long time.
demographic loudest against biden
And add in the “Biden = genocide but I have no alternative to offer so I guess I want Trump to win” crowd and you can be in trouble.
As terrible as Biden’s stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict is, he’s still the lesser of two evils. Another Trump presidency would not spell good things for Palestinian civilians.
And that’s my point. Trump CERTAINLY will be worse, but people have decided that they will let the greater of two evils in by default rather than work to bring in the lesser of the two.
People who think that Biden is genocidal have seen nothing yet compared to Trump being in that role agian.
It’s like they forgot all of the pro-Israel moments of Donald Trump’s 4 years in office. But since October 7th 2023, people have actually started to receive an education in Israeli/Palestinian relations. Most people thought it started on October 7th 2023 and not, you know, 75 years before that.
The fact that crowd exists is a scary reminder of the power of propaganda, advertising, and manipulation. It’s a clear and devastating example of using people’s values against them. It’s an entirely artificially created demographic. To people who didn’t get caught on that particular baited hook, it looks insane.
The fundamentals of how to wage information/cognitive warfare should be part of public schools’ curriculum so our kids will recognize when its happening.
And yet those who did are passionately angry at you for not agreeing with them. Like insulting your dead grandma and saying you should never have been born kind of angry. It’s so weird.
But what will replace them? Uni-party doesn’t work either (e.g. NYC)
Hopefully the Democrats. No seriously, I hope the Dems become our more conservative party and we get a more progressive party. But… I’m not holding my breath, honestly. Feels like wishful thinking.
A new party will pop up. The Federalist Party died out after Hamilton was shot and also the War of 1812. They fielded their last Presidential candidate in 1816 with 30.9% of the vote.
Then the National Republican Party (different from the current Republican party) evolved out of the Democratic-Republican Party.
Personally, I’d love it if Democrats became the right-most party by staying exactly as they are, and a new party breaks off of them or evolves out to their left.
Personally, I’d love it if Democrats became the right-most party by staying exactly as they are, and a new party breaks off of them or evolves out to their left.
I’d say it’s more likely to go the other way, with the more moderate or right-leaning Democrats breaking off to form their own party and perhaps steal away the more moderate Republican voters. There are a lot of voters who would naturally align more closely with traditional Republican political views voting Democrat only because the Republican party has been taken over by a radical faction. Having laissez-faire fiscal conservatives and outright socialists in the same party isn’t really sustainable long-term; there are too many critical points of disagreement.
Democrats aren’t exactly a healthy representation of moderation. They’re too authoritarian for me to want the other party to be the actually-socialist party. Socialist and libertarian would be a balance, but it requires a big chunk of the Democrat platform to burn alongside MAGA. Honestly actually-socialist and actually-libertarian would be the two parties we really need today.
actually-socialist and actually-libertarian would be the two parties we really need today
they’re the same party
Which one is that? I’m not sure you understand the difference if you think both can possibly be represented by the same party.
I hope so but I think my fellow gen x’ers will just become as hateful and bigoted.
The boomer remover was in full swing and then some asshat said we needed a vaccine and you all ate it up.
I’m LGBTQ…AND republican. Although that means something vastly different where I live, haha (I live in a kingdom).
The only cool kind of Republicans
In my republic (France), Republicans suck too. It looks like you’re right: cool Republicans only exist in monarchies.
Isn’t everyone in The France republican? Do you have monarchist French that want to resurrect King Louis? Or do they want to crown Macarone the new King?
P.S. I had an almond croissant earlier today and took a picture of some frozen snails.
Almost everyone is Republican, but we also have a Republican Party, which isn’t more Republican than the others, this name makes zero sense. It’s the successor of the party of De Gaulle, but I’m quite sure De Gaulle wouldn’t like what this party became.
There are a few monarchist movements, generally far-right-leaning, like the French Action. But they are very small and divided (there are two candidates for the throne, and different kinds of monarchies), so nobody takes them seriously.
De Gaulle
He really hated the English - which is a bit rich considering we sheltered him during the war. He was proven right on the EU though. We did nothing but cause trouble while in, then left. Precisely what he predicted. :(
PS: croissants are good; snails aren’t.
A civilised French! A rare, but welcome, breed. I forgive you for Patay, Formigny, and Castillon. Joan of Arc was obviously suffering the Snail Madness and didn’t realise English rule was superior.
I don’t think De Gaulle hated the English, but he surely despised them. He despised almost everyone though, and maybe he despised the French more than anyone else, calling us “calves” or mocking our love for cheese, for example. Yeah, he was an asshole.
They should employ you at the Paris tourist board. You’re a decent French and you know facts! Paris needs that. 👍
Had me in the first half not gonna lie
Vive la république!
Now if they’d just vote….
To their credit, they are: https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/12/12/near-record-high-numbers-of-young-people-voted-during-the-midterms-signaling-a-possible-shift/
1 out of 4 for a midterm election is nothing to sneeze at.
Specifically, an estimated 27% of eligible voters in that age group turned out to the polls in 2022
In 2018, approximately 31% of young people voted
It’s not that many, and it’s actually down from the last midterm election. Fucking vote.
A lot of us aren’t old enough to vote yet
Ok you get a pass 😉
They do vote…they’re in areas where their vote doesn’t count.
Wow, a news story that makes me think my kid could actually live in a better political climate than me in a few decades. I forgot what this feeling was like.
I’m a bit confused by this.
Does this imply that the human race is drastically more sexually fluid than most species when allowed to be without oppression? Or that the culture gen z has grown up in helps cultivate a more fluid preference?
I grew up in the 80s, so I’m trying to understand, but it’s tough meshing statements like this with my experiences.
Please don’t misunderstand this post as disapproval. Just confusion.
Amazing what not punishing things does
I’ve got an older bro who is ambidextrous due to not being allowed to be left-handed in kindergarten (and beyond). He got held back due to “developmental” problems. I can’t believe the teachers and principal were so dumb that they couldn’t connect the dots as to what was really going on.
I’m cross dominant. I do some things left handed, some things right handed, and a select few I can do with either. Elementary school was weird. My teachers couldn’t comprehend that I write with my right hand but use scissors with my left. For years I was forced to use right handed scissors held awkwardly in my left hand. To this day, I’m not particularly good with scissors.
I’m cross dominant but consider myself left handed mainly because I do the fine motor stuff writing, eating, etc. with my left hand. Out side of scissors I don’t think I’ve ever felt forced to use a hand that didn’t feel comfortable, stupid scissors.
distributed over the population vs the same 4 girls who sit together at lunch
The best explanation I’ve heard is that it’s similar to the stats for left-handed people. Way back in the day, almost no one “identified” as being left-handed. But once the stigma against left-handedness was eliminated, the numbers went up.
So in other words, yes, it’s a reflection of LGBTQ+ becoming more acceptable, particularly among Gen Z. There could be other factors, but that’s probably the main one.
28% seems huge, though. Are there any other animals like that? I’m kind of confused how it’s that high even with acceptance lol.
Yes. Bonobos.
Human appear to be about halfway between chimps and bonobos on the primate spectrum. The violence of chimps combined with the fluid sexual social habits of bonobos lol
https://phys.org/news/2019-09-insights-same-sex-sexual-interactions-important.amp
The article pointed out that the same sex encounters were only high for females, idk if that’s that similar to humans.
We are the only animal with cultural locks on gender expression. If we didn’t have such hang ups about gender norms we would not really notice someone being LGBT. Paradoxically the more regressive and strict people are about gender roles the more people you have that don’t fit within those gender roles.
Theres long been a camp that argues the vast majority of people are bisexual (myself included). That’s also where pretty much all of the recent growth comes from. Interestingly, most of that comes from bisexual women, while bisexual men consistently self report at levels lower than gay men.
I mean, sexuality is a spectrum. It’s statistically unlikely that a large part of the population is at the exact borders of the spectrum and not even slightly in between.
Especially since afaik physical attraction is just a matter of appearance, and there’s very masculine women or very feminine men.
Part acceptance, part widening the net of what’s included in the category.
Bonobos
I think it’s mostly that very few of them identify as Republican.
But also, the less stigma around gender expression, the more kids will be open to explore theirs.
That’s not what the data said.
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/23/gen-z-less-religious-more-liberal-lgbtq
Identifying as Republican went from 32% in the Boomer Generation to 21% in Gen Z. Identifying as LGBTQ+ went from 4% with Boomers to 28% with Gen Z.
Both changes are major, but the LGBTQ+ change is massive.
It’s probably worth mentioning we recognize certain types of people as part of the LGBTQ+ umbrella who were not before. Asexual people, for example.
It’s a confluence of factors. LGBTQIA+ is sort of a gender/sexuallity/ phenotype physicality solidarity alliance and the actual boundries has grown in scope since the 80’s.
Like take for instance asexual people. Asexuallity became a part of the solidarity when people reached out over the internet and and started realizing that there were a lot of people who just don’t feel sexual attraction and that there are certain widely accepted forms of social coercion that revolve around pushing people towards sexual attraction. But asexuallity as a part of the LGBTQIA only really became a thing in the early 2000’s. Non-binary trans identities are much the same. A lot of people were feeling the way they did about themselves in isolation but they had no frame of reference to think that they were not just the odd person out.
The other half is a society wide re-examination of compulsory heterosexuallity/cis gender hegemony. There are way more people out there who no longer define themselves by who they’ve chosen to have physical sexual experience with and now a lot more people are more frank about defining themselves by the range of people they are attracted to. Like if the majority of people artificially penalize a bi-person for choosing a same sex relationship a lot of people will just take the easier path and just narrow their choices or keep their liasons with the restricted choice secret and not assume the label.
I before I came out as trans initially figured I didn’t count as trans because I both wasn’t physically transitioning and my industry is somewhat hostile to trans people so I was very closeted ao I figured the label only really belonged to the people brave enough to live out of the closet… But eventually someone found me and was like “No, it’s not aspirational. Even deep in the closet you are still trans.”
This combination of destigmatization, solidarity messaging, the inclusion of whole other groups (like intersex people, gender minorities, asexuals) broadening the scope and outreach to the closeted means that more people generally self identify as LGBTQIA or queer.
Animal kingdom wise we’re still less observably sexual fluid than other primates. Bisexuality is actually pretty ubiquitous particularly amongst male primates with it actually being the overwhelming norm in some species so chances are we are probably actually seen the curve level off from suppressive stigma.
I think most species are more fluid than you realize, and humans are just normal. Especially for apes that share a common ancestor with bonobos.
I believe it’s your first option, acceptance for being yourself is the normal instead of a beating from your parents like pre 2000.
drastically more sexually fluid than most species
Have you heard about bonobos? They shag anyone for anything and they’re one of our closest relatives. Friends have mutual wanks. Enemies have makeup sex. Threesomes, foursomes. Horny bunch of fuckers.
I would assume they are more honestly/aware of their preference.
I am a gay dude, and I have had friends/coworkers who identified as straight say things like “Why does everyone need to label things? I am 100% straight, but sometimes on a road trip, you just wanna suck the other guy off. Both of us are still straight though”
Every time I have heard thigns like this, it’s GenX, or older Millennial. Older than that, they don’t bring up “queer” things, younger than that, they just say that they are “mostly straight”, or “barely-bi”, or “up for whatever”.
I identify as the +. My sexuality is Extra. Anyone up for some algebra?
LGBT as a category has been increased a lot over the years. Asexual or people who don’t feel they conform to super strict gender norms are all included as “queer” now. So I imagine it’s a combo of things, some people being trendy, some people being freer and not feeling the need to hide, some people who previously didn’t identify being included.
Left handedness was persecuted and after it stopped being persecuted there was a massive rise in people who were left handed. But it plateaued and has remained pretty stable since then.
The 11% dip for the GOP makes sense. Their policies are just not in line with what young people value.
That said, the +24% gain in LGBTQ+ identification is fascinating and I would love to know how nature, nurture, taboo, and oppression play impact that. This would be a really cool time to be in university and studying human sexuality and gender.
I’ll tell you one thing that really changed my understanding of how common this is.
A gay acquaintance of mine confessed that someone had reached out to him via Snapchat to fool around. That someone was a supposedly-straight man that we had gone to high school with. Throughout high school and beyond, this guy was very much a ladies man. He was a tall football player who women were always attracted to. He had a million guy friends and was very masculine.
Apparently, he still identifies as straight but was curious. He’s now married to a woman and has kids.
Another of my acquaintances is bisexual (or something?). He wasn’t willing to kiss and tell, which I can respect. But he said I would be absolutely astounded at the number of straight guys who are secretly down to clown.
I personally have zero interest in same-sex relations. I’m totally happy for people who enjoy that, but the idea of it just doesn’t do anything for me at all. I guess I had spent a lot of my youth being accepting of LGBTQ+, but assuming most people felt the way I did and there was a very small, small minority of people who didn’t.
But those two interactions made me realize: I was getting a window into people who felt that way and had the guts to make a move. It hit me that there are probably so many more people who feel that way and don’t make a move for a variety of reasons. Either they’re already in a straight relationship and don’t want to be unfaithful, they’ve internalized shame about it, or the stigma is just too much to overcome for them.
Dude, I really think there are so many more people out there who are at least “curious” than most of us will ever imagine.
My (admittedly relatively hot) take as a younger millennial indoctrinated by the 2nd wave feminists (who weren’t huge on the third wave) is that what gender means has shifted. I didn’t experience myself as particularly gendered growing up in the 90s and early 00s and certainly wouldn’t consider it part of my inner essence. I don’t give a shit how strangers refer to me or whether they think I’m a dude or not. I found it to be a slightly annoying category imposed by everyone else. Something I needed to understand because it impacted how I was received by others, but not something that was core to my self-understanding. In school I studied the humanities which reaffirmed to me that gender was an annoying external category that put people in boxes—we didn’t want gay female CEOs, we wanted to get rid of gender altogether.
I think gen Z actually has a similar thought but instead of doing away with the gender categories many have chosen, on an individual level, to make them their own a bit more in line with 3rd wave ‘boss bitch’ vibes. This still undermines the oppressive nature of the gender roles because it it kind of divorces gender from the societal gender role.
Well said
We are indeed more sexually fluid than most species and given it’s “most” and not “all”, this isn’t unprecedented. It’s also not a new phenomena, in Ancient Greek and early-mid Ancient Roman societies queerness was quite common. In fact homosexuality was so prevalent that that the Romans didn’t even have a word for heterosexual/homosexual; instead one was either dominant or submissive (e.g. giving or receiving) with the assumption being that most were bisexual and would take partners as they saw fit.
There would still be a stigma around being the receptive partner. The idea being that a higher status man can penetrate lower status people (younger men, slaves, women). A high status man being penetrated by a lower status person would be worthy of mockery.
Samurai were gay as fuck though. Sengoku period you could even be romantic with other dudes, women are for making babies. I have an 1940s (iirc) English translation of a book of 16th century gay samurai love stories - the guy who wrote the forward thought it was because “mongoloid” people look more feminine 😅
LGBTQ came out if the closet and GOP went in.
Putting sexuality in such a defined state is relatively new in human culture. So most often no one would have the worlds to talk about it or even know it could be classified differently.
fingers crossed it means there’s five gen z Republicans and they don’t know how to vote
deleted by creator
Our closest related species gets it on so much in so many ways it is one STD away from extinction. It might be that we really are like this. Maybe the norm for humans was to have random homosexual and hetrosexual orgies everywhere. It was only because it became important to know who the daddy was that things changed? Or the sampling of the survey wasn’t great. You know groundbreaking or meaningless.
I think about cultures that have a focus on same sex sexual contact- most people, if they had been born there would probably participate. If they’re born somewhere where it’s forbidden, most people don’t engage in it.
Some people are hardwired about it in either direction, but the majority are more flexible
Some of it is a rejection of previous values - toxic masculinity and toxic femininity. Some of it may be standing with their peers even if it does not apply directly to them. Some of it is trendiness. Some doctors are even predatory, seeking to sell their extraordinarily expensive surgeries for tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Older, established trans communities in Europe even are shocked at how young we allow surgeries in the USA, before someone knows who they truly are.
Mainly we just have an extremist society here, egged on in large part by our predatory clickbait media that always has to come up with something to
saysell, so it ignores the >80% in the middle and focuses exclusively on the flashiest content it can find. And then kids hear that and wonder how they fit into it - ofc they never see the “middle ground”, b/c in the media it just isn’t there.Take a look also at how shockingly high rates of suicide and opioid and other drug use are. The younger generations are desperate to become anything else besides what boomers are telling them they must be: literal slaves to the corporate empires.:-(
sees headine oh, that’s good news!
sees source oh it’s gay fox, which means it’s probably sensationalized to the point that the headline is a lie, because that’s what they do over there.
You had me at gay fox.
Actually the source is Axios, and the headline is not wrong even if it is from an obviously biased organization. You can see the original coverage of it here:
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/23/gen-z-less-religious-more-liberal-lgbtq
honestly it would make sense and i didn’t doubt it until I saw it was on PinkNews - it’s not about bias, it’s about their headlines too often being the exact opposite of the real story (when there even is a real story; much of their content is sensationalized nothings). Just absolute crap reporting. Thanks for providing the original source.
I’ve been on the internet too long, because I assumed you meant it was a furry site.
Not buying it. Probably just scared of the well deserved ridicule received if they identify as Republican. We’ll see how the vote goes.
Shy Tory factor. It hasn’t usually been common to see in US polling.
You’re dubious because why? Do you think there were only two options? Do you identify as republican or LGBTQ?
This is actually quite interesting. For me, answering a questionaire like this is frustrating because the true answer is much more nuanced than what the given options are and I feel like I know what they’re trying to ask but my honest answer is going to give them confusing results from which they’re going to pull incorrect conclusions from.
For example: Politically I’m slightly right from centre but I’ve always voted left. I’m also non-straight but I don’t identify as LGBTQ (I literally had to look up the correct way to type that)
I’m also non-straight but I don’t identify as LGBTQ (I literally had to look up the correct way to type that)
If you identify as non-straight then you’re identifying as LGBTQ. Don’t get hung up on the specific letters in the acronym, that sort of changes from year to year. You can pretty much sum it up to literally mean anything that isn’t straight which is what you said you are.
If you identify as non-straight then you’re identifying as LGBTQ.
No I don’t. That’s the point; if this is asked on a questionaire my answer will be no. It’s irrelevant if other people want to label me like that - I don’t.
You labeled yourself non-straight. That falls under LGBTQ.
Edit: I’m not trying to force you to use the acronym, I’m just saying “non-straight” most definitely falls under it.
It’s irrelevant if other people want to label me like that
Correct. You get to label yourself and no person on Earth has a right to comment on that. You’re choosing not to and it’s unclear why or to what end.
…it’s unclear why or to what end.
The abbreviation in question has negative cannotations in my mind and thus I don’t want to be accociated with it. I prefer the term sexual minority if I absolutely need to be put into a category.
It sounds like you’re over-complicating your own life.
Why do you think that?
It sounds complicated lol.
You’re being quite vague.
Because people here are smart enough to not comment on whether someone has an authentic identity, what that identity is, what it should be, etc. You do you. It does also sound a bit like you’ve decided that you don’t fit other categories just because but you may not also know in which ways or why.
Sorry
I’ll say it, because I ran out of fucks a long time ago and I couldn’t give a fuck about down votes:
You are a moron.
And that’s fine. Someone has to prop up the bottom half of the intellectual spectrum. The problem is self awareness.
Forest Gump knew he was a moron. Most morons don’t.
non-straight but I don’t identify as LGBTQ
This is pretty much what the “Q” part is. Queer in this context refers to not conforming to standard roles in some way or another.
Weird that your response got downvoted, but that seems to be how things go on here. Weird, but not surprising. If you’re slightly right from center, you sound like a centrist Dem.
I would identify as ANYTHING before as a republican
ThankFuckingGod.jpg
As it should be. FUCKING VOTE! And remember, by not voting for Biden, you are voting for Trump whether or not you actually cast a vote. ALL of the Trump supporters WILL show up on the day.
No. You don’t get to tell me that I have to vote for Biden when he’s not doing anything to earn my vote. He’s allowing Israel to carry out a genocide. So he’s not actually less evil than Trump. You’re just upset because Trump’s shitty policies will impact you more than Biden’s shitty policies. Biden has the lower approval ratings than Trump did at this point. He has not earned a second term.
How about the Dems run a candidate who isn’t dog shit? I vote for Dems as a form of harm reduction, but they aren’t reducing harm anymore. So what’s in it for me? Dems haven’t not done anything about the supreme court, student loans, or threats to democracy and they are largely supporting the actions of Israel. If I’m right, and this is a genocide (I am), then voting for anyone who supports it would be an evil act. They’re going to have to make some changes if they want to earn the votes of people who don’t want to see a genocide carried out on our watch with our bombs.
That said, it would be a real problem if Trump won. So if that happens, I hope you’ll be willing to place the blame where it belongs: with the Democrats. They are the ones doing nothing to earn our votes. Biden isn’t even campaigning.
That said, it would be a real problem if Trump won. So if that happens, I hope you’ll be willing to place the blame where it belongs: with the Democrats. They are the ones doing nothing to earn our votes. Biden isn’t even campaigning.
Biden is governing. He’s doing the job he was elected to do. Perhaps that’s enough to earn some votes? Or are votes only earnt by rallies and advertisements?
In any case, it’s completely silly to blame the Democrats for losing if you don’t vote for them yourself. If you prefer Democrats over republicans, then you have to vote for them. Even though they aren’t perfect. If you don’t vote, then it is totally unreasonable to blame anyone else for getting an undesired outcome. Not voting implies that you have no preference.
(And yet again, this is another case where ‘ranked choice’ voting / preferential / instant-runoff would make this whole situation a lot easier. USA could really use some serious electoral reform.)
I don’t currently prefer democrats over Republicans. I think they are equally harmful in different ways. What do I do? I agree that Republicans are wrong on everything, but Dems are wrong on enough things, and majorly so, that I don’t think that they can be reformed. RCV is a pipe dream for the US at large. Especially with dems in positions of power. They haven’t historically been willing to give up power once they have it.
Vote however you want. It’s your choice. If you prefer Republicans, then vote for them. I’m just saying that if you choose not to vote for Democrats, it’s silly to then go on to blame the Democrats for Trump being in power. ‘Blame’ implies that you are unhappy with the outcome, but it is effectively an outcome that you yourself chose with your vote.
If you don’t want Trump to win, then you should choose to vote against him. If you don’t, you yourself are the one to blame. (That said, if you are happy to have that demented tyrant as your president, then go ahead and vote for him. It’s your choice.)
If Dems need my vote to win, then they need to run a candidate that doesn’t support genocide in Palestine. If they can’t or won’t do that, then they are forfeiting my vote. If they do that and lose, then they are the one’s “at fault” for losing.
More Palestinians will die under Trump. The only logical choice is to choose the candidate whose election will result in fewer deaths.
Palestinians are dying under Biden right now. The logical choice is to try to get him to step down.
Okay. But Palestine still gonna be fucked. I get that you don’t care if Palestinians die. But I do. So I get to not vote for the guy currently enabling their genocide. “Trump would do it too” so you admit it’s bad? Demand better from your politicians you weakling.
If you think Palestine is still fucked either way then choosing to empowerer Trump makes even less sense. I think it’s a fact that Trump will be far worse for Palestinians than Biden, but even if we assume they will both be just as terrible on this issue, Trump is also terrible on every issue. If your choice is terrible and completely terrible, logically you should go with terrible. The other choice is even worse.
How could trump be worse?what is worse than arming the Israelies while they engage in genocide? Unless you don’t believe that’s what is happening. In which case,you have been misinformed. Genocide is genocide. Why am I the asshole here for not wanting to vote for someone who is enabling a genocide? Why isn’t Biden the asshole for enabling the genocide or not stepping down?
How could trump be worse?
Trump (to black Americans) in 2016: What do you have to lose?
You’re basically just spouting Trump talking points.
Trump would obviously not only support Israel’s position he would sell them more weapons…wouldn’t care at all about the Palestinian human rights angle and he would allow Russia to walk into Ukraine and that’s just the “foreign relations” plan…domestically, he’s planning on setting up concentration camps for the homeless and undocumented.
So he would do what Biden is doing but more… Justify voting for him however you want. Biden is just as supportive of Israel as Trump would be.
ah, so the single-issue voter. actually it’s not even single-issue, that’s just giving up status quo in order to effectively vote for worse than status quo. that’s called having a narrow view on the world, you know the middle east isn’t the only thing that exists in american politics right? there are still other things to improve on rather than just saying “oh israel-palestine conflict is going to shit either way therefore why even bother, might as well fuck up every other political issue, it’s useless if we can’t have this one win”.
grow up, you’re effectively casting all your friends and loved ones into the flames with your stubbornness, and casting palestinians into the flames considering trump is going to rail way harder against palestine than biden does. it’s not like not voting means no palestinians die, why do you have this delusion that you have blood on your hands if you vote but no blood on your hands if you don’t. it helps nobody and improves nothing except your own ego because you get to say “oh well i didn’t vote for genocide!” even though you practically voted for more genocide.
It’s not my only issue with Biden, but it is my biggest and the fact that it doesn’t even seem to register as a problem for you is very telling. You don’t care about anything that’s happening to anyone outside of the US huh? Your world is that small? Get a grip. We all draw our lines in the sand somewhere and when the line is crossed, that’s usually the thing we’re going to yell about. I think “I can work with you on anything other than genocide related crimes” is pretty fucking lenient, don’t you?
Not arming the Israeli’s and letting Iran try to start a war it cannot win, which would result in a domino effect of failed middle eastern states, tens of millions of deaths, and tens of millions of war refugees.
Oh but by all means burn the fucking planet down and destroy democracy for 350,000,000 Americans because you want everyone to know how super sad you are over 25,000 avoidable deaths.
The fuck? So just let Israel kill civilians. Cool. I was wrong. You’re not a psychopath. You’re someone who would have gone along with the Nazis.
Some might say it’s the weakling that can’t make the right decision to vote for the lesser evil even if they don’t like them.
Like I said in the last reply, you get to vote however you like. But if you publicly share your choice, others are free to comment on it.
There it is! The right decision! See and I think you’re making the wrong decision. Aren’t perspectives fun?
Letting fascism win is the objectively wrong decision. It’s not a different perspective, you aren’t thinking.
Letting genocide continue is the objectively wrong decision. So I have two objectively wrong decisions. What do?
Of course nobody can tell you who you have to vote for.
But regardless of your choice and your reasons, the math of the votes in our stupid system does mean that voting for anybody but Biden, including voting for nobody, helps Trump or his Republican replacement.
If you don’t care about that, that’s fine. Some might argue that you SHOULD care, but that’s a different conversation. The voting decision is a private one that’s yours alone, but understanding how the choices affect the outcome is good for everybody.
I do care about those things. But I also care about Biden not being president for different, equally valid, equally moral, reasons. Also for pettiness sake, he fucking said he’d be a one term president before he ran in 2020 and we should fucking hold him to that but no one fucking remembers it. I cannot bring myself to vote for a man who has said and done the things he had said and done. So if I care about those things as I “should” and if I also care about doing something about the runaway supreme court and not arming a genocidal right wing government (just to name a couple of my objections to Biden’s presidency), who do I vote for? Do I just give Biden another 4 years because the other guy sucks? Even though I know that it means that he will allow a genocide to be carried out and join wars to defend that genocide which will lead to untold deaths?
Like, even in your comment, while you tell me it’s a personal decision, you’re still laying it on a bit thick and its clear what you think I should do with my vote.
Do I just give Biden another 4 years because the other guy sucks?
Yes. The choice is one or the other so you pick the least bad option. You’re not voting on whether or not to do a genocide, that’s not what this election is deciding. If you genuinely care about the Supreme Court, it’s fucked up because of Trump and if he wins he will stack it even further. And do you really think Trump is going to sell fewer weapons to murderous right wing governments than Biden will? Again, the choice is one or the other so you either vote for Biden or you are serving to empower Trump. You don’t have to love Biden or feel good about voting for him, but please recognize that an even worse scenario will unfold if Trump wins.
No. That is a false dichotomy, as I have said to literally everyone else who has tried to use that argument. There are other options here. The DNC’s and/or Joe Biden’s unwillingness to explore those options doesn’t make them not options. It just means we need to push them harder. Your unwillingness to do so does not mean that the options don’t exist. I am not required to subscribe to your way of viewing politics.
We live in a two party system. There are two candidates who have a real chance to win the presidential election. This has been true for the entire history of US politics. This is not a way of viewing politics, it’s historical fact. Alternate facts aren’t an opinion, they’re lies.
And I’m saying if Dems want to win, they need to run a different guy. That’s not even me, its the polls.
I think it’s pretty obvious where the blame would be if Trump wins: the stupid folks who refused to vote out of principle. If it was possible that neither could win then your strategy could make sense. But there are ONLY 2 OUTCOMES. Requiring dems to earn your vote is unfortunately meaningless when the only other option is FAR WORSE YOU CRETIN OF INANE CONCLUSIONS.
That’s simply not true. Biden has the option to step down and let a Democrat who isn’t dog shit run in his place. He and the DNC are choosing not to do so. The election is months away. He can still back out if he wants. It is not Trump or Biden unless Dems refuse to listen to voters.
Talk about unrealistic.
Has an incumbent ever just bowed out due to pressure from the fringe?
Do you think a new, unknown candidate could drop into the race and have any chance against the right-wing cult that will 100% turn up to vote?
You’re inability to imagine a scenario does not make it impossible. You gave me a false dichotomy, I gave you an explanation of why it was false. You don’t have to like it. Nobody does. But they would have months to campaign. The primaries aren’t even over yet, so it wouldn’t theoretically cost then anything. Dems just need to do it. They’ve had since October. They’re the ones making the choice here. They could make a different one.
But they won’t. Because they care more about making sure the “right people” have power than representing their constituents or even doing what’s right. This isn’t the first time and it won’t be the last.
It’s called being realistic my dude. If you want further left politicians and policies, organize and turn out the vote. If you don’t you get the most milquetoast people-pleasing centrist democrat ever because the DNC is trying to placate as many people as they can.
Have you seen what the right wing has done over the last decade or so with the Tea Party morphing into the Freedom Caucus? There are right wing groups showing up to school board meetings and running for city councils all across the country. They’ve mobilized and are going out and taking what they want and now the formerly “mainstream” Republicans are completely beholden to them and afraid of being primaried in the next off-year election.
The left needs to do the same thing over the next decade or two (or three), that’s the only way we can actually win long term.
“get out the vote.” We tried, they rigged it against Bernie twice.
Either way you’re voting for a Palestinian genocide and the continuation of neoliberal imperialism.
Edit: the future is bleak either way, Biden has explicitly shown support for the continuation of support for Israel as well as the bombing campaign in Yemen and Syria. All this is to say that there is genuinely nothing we can do to help the middle east in this election.
But sure, we can get a better minimum wage or whatever.
Grow up bro, we don’t care about your pet bleeding heart topic, either vote for Biden or be prepared to be persecuted in a Trumpian dictatorship.
You don’t care about Palestinian hospitals and children being firebombed? Dope.
me being told to grow up by another lemmy user is literally 1984 guys
Funny equals censorship complaint.
You’re a fucking retard
Biden is awful, but I would take him over orange Hitler any day of the week. Heck, I would take DC’s Joker over Trump… that will put a smile on everyone’s faces.
Yeah I feel like people misunderstand what I’m saying as though I’m considering voting for trump. I’m not at all. I’m just trying to figure out how well voting for Biden sits on my conscience, or if id rather write in daffy duck this year.
Trump is not on the menu for me, and I feel like I’ve made that fairly clear but not once talking about voting for him.
Of course, no one here is seriously accusing you of voting for Trump; the thing I’m trying to say is that there are a lot of magadiots who will do everything in their power to get Trump back in the White House. There is also a lot of voter suppression in poorer neighborhoods with minorities who tend to vote blue in hopes they give up and go home, which gives republicans an advantage.
There is a very real chance Trump will win in the coming elections, so everyone who opposes Trump and what he stands for should absolutely vote for Biden even if he is awful, because if Trump is back in the White House, there is a real possibility this will be the last election.
I’m saying this as someone who was very cynical about politics for years and didn’t always vote during my life, and have come to regret not voting immensely.
I understand where you’re coming from, but I still don’t think it’s anyone’s right to tell me or anyone else that they are obligated to vote for any president.
Vote for everything else, vote in your local elections. That’s what changes things. But I don’t believe it’s my duty to vote for one of two pieces of shit every election just because of some screeching fucking retards on the Internet.
I’m not telling you you are obligated to do anything, I’m just asking you to reconsider because I’ve been there and deeply regretted not having voted in the past.
Yes, voting in local elections is probably going to make an immediate and tangible difference to your community, and should be encouraged for everyone to participate, but it’s still really important to vote in the presidential elections to keep Trump out of the White House. There is a real risk that if Trump wins in 2024, there won’t be a 2028 election at all…
