No, in essence gender and sexuality are not the same and you seem to be saying they are. If after discussing with a doctor and parents or legal guardian if the best course of action is to prescribe puberty blockers so they can make an informed decision about hormones when 18 I see nothing wrong with that or equivalent to sexualizing children.
If puberty blockers inhibit hormones and hormones are responsible for the development of our brains and identity: how is hitting pause allowing for an informed decision?
I have more to say on this but I want to keep this discussion focused.
If they only knew what hormones do to adults, especially amongst athletes, the psychological changes you could face, including severe depression, anxiety, aggression, and sadly acts of violence and self unaliving. I can’t support messing with the natural course of hormones within children.
If you’re an adult, by all means, it’s your choice. You’ve experienced life long enough and should be able to decide what to do with yourself.
There are better ways to support a child struggling with their identity than affirming that they aren’t right and need drugs to fix themselves. It’s not meant that way but it’s certainly a perception that isn’t uncommon.
If puberty blockers inhibit hormones and hormones are responsible for the development of our brains and identity:
I’m going to need a source that puberty blockers have negative effects on cognitive development to accept that if. If puberty related hormones were necessary to consider someone an adult then people who are missing those hormones or puberty by mutation, disease, etc wouldn’t be considered adults which is not the case.
how is hitting pause allowing for an informed decision?
It prevents the acute release of puberty related hormones until they are old enough to be considered an adult under the law and able to make decisions about what they do or don’t consent to. The informed decision to prevent permanent changes by taking puberty blockers is made by a medical professional with parental or guardian consent to allow the child to mentally mature and make their own choice about taking hormones. One literary review notes the following positive and negative effects: "Positive outcomes were decreased suicidality in adulthood, improved affect and psychological functioning, and improved social life. Adverse factors associated with use were changes in body composition, slow growth, decreased height velocity, decreased bone turnover, cost of drugs, and lack of insurance coverage. "
I’m going to need a source that puberty blockers have negative effects on cognitive development to accept that if. If puberty related hormones were necessary to consider someone an adult then people who are missing those hormones or puberty by mutation, disease, etc wouldn’t be considered adults which is not the case.
This is two different things. It’s a fairly well known fact that the maturation of the adolescent mind is during puberty… which is the result of the aforementioned chemicals. I’ll further that by saying if you acknowledge someone is chemically different - is stunting that change actually a good thing? The answer isn’t known. There are too few peer reviewed studies with sufficient data to provide a credible answer.
As far as considering adulthood - I’d suggest tabling that as it unwinds into some ugly side conversations all of which have validity … but doesn’t belong here. There is a reason we use age as a generic determinant… and that is tied to general brain maturity and experience.
It prevents the acute release of puberty related hormones until … [truncated]
This is the problem. (I’ve made this assertion elsewhere in this thread) Those hormones are responsible for more than just sexual development. We can’t actually pause our bodies. We are bypassing a part of the development phase and saying “see it started again” when in reality it was just continuing for the remaining period it was supposed to be active for. This has side effects. (which you noted- See the definitions and risks on the mayo clinic site.)
Physical implications aside… we get very chicken and egg here: So do the parents recognize the child is the wrong sex and bring them to the doctor … or the child says I’m the wrong sex and the aforementioned happens? Obviously the latter. Based on that the child is making the decision based on minimal experience and should be given counselling and time to make that decision as they develop. Your mention of self image and suicide is not uncommon amongst teens period. Providing guidance and understanding is how that is solved… but we as Americans are very good at throwing pills at that problem… and frequently do.
None of the known risks or side effects include cognitive impairment, you are attributing to puberty blockers changes to cognitive development without research demonstrating the causal link between limiting puberty hormones and decreased or slowed cognitive development like the known negative effects. I also wouldn’t accept increased cognitive development as a positive effect under puberty blockers without justification either. Until there is sufficient justification for either position we are not justified reaching either conclusion.
I am concerned there is and will be increased public resistance to what the medical consensus supports because of the political scapegoating trans people are under, and wonder if we were talking about transhumanism in general instead focused specifically on transgenderism would the resistance be the same.
The discussions you’ve mentioned would likely start with a child experiencing distress reported to an adult or their parents noticing their distress and working with a medical doctor to identify the causes and treatment plans to consider. In the cases where the distress is related to a lasting pattern of gender dysphoria or gender nonconformity that is one of the criteria for prescribing puberty blockers.
None of the known risks or side effects include cognitive impairment, you are attributing to puberty blockers changes to cognitive development without research demonstrating the causal link between limiting puberty hormones and decreased or slowed cognitive development like the known negative effects. I also wouldn’t accept increased cognitive development as a positive effect under puberty blockers without justification either. Until there is sufficient justification for either position we are not justified reaching either conclusion…
This is a fair point and I will admit I did not have any research in mind when I brought it up… however I believe it’s fair to say that of the research that has been done very little focuses on this specific application and it’s long term effects.
I am concerned there is and will be increased public resistance to what the medical consensus supports because of the political scapegoating trans people are under, and wonder if we were talking about transhumanism in general instead focused specifically on transgenderism would the resistance be the same.
I loathe politcs involving sexuality period. It’s one more way to splinter a community. We absolutely agree here.
The discussions you’ve mentioned would likely start with a child experiencing distress reported to an adult or their parents noticing their distress and working with a medical doctor to identify the causes and treatment plans to consider. In the cases where the distress is related to a lasting pattern of gender dysphoria or gender nonconformity that is one of the criteria for prescribing puberty blockers.
While this is the case care should be given to how that information is interpreted. Toys, clothing choices, even colors can simply be a very neutral and innocent interest and may (from the child’s perspective) simply be something they enjoy. We as adults can overly assign meaning and weight to these choices which may impact the child’s perspective. Psychology in general can bandwagon quite a bit in this regard. I will say it has improved quite a bit but we’re all human. I digress. To your point I still believe that counseling is and should be the first step and medication should be (if used) used sparingly and ideally after some time has passed. I still firmly dislike the “it’s just a pause button” mentality people have. It’s far more complex than that- it needs to be respected as a weighty decision.
No, in essence gender and sexuality are not the same and you seem to be saying they are. If after discussing with a doctor and parents or legal guardian if the best course of action is to prescribe puberty blockers so they can make an informed decision about hormones when 18 I see nothing wrong with that or equivalent to sexualizing children.
Alright so let’s follow this line of thought:
If puberty blockers inhibit hormones and hormones are responsible for the development of our brains and identity: how is hitting pause allowing for an informed decision?
I have more to say on this but I want to keep this discussion focused.
If they only knew what hormones do to adults, especially amongst athletes, the psychological changes you could face, including severe depression, anxiety, aggression, and sadly acts of violence and self unaliving. I can’t support messing with the natural course of hormones within children.
If you’re an adult, by all means, it’s your choice. You’ve experienced life long enough and should be able to decide what to do with yourself.
There are better ways to support a child struggling with their identity than affirming that they aren’t right and need drugs to fix themselves. It’s not meant that way but it’s certainly a perception that isn’t uncommon.
I’m going to need a source that puberty blockers have negative effects on cognitive development to accept that if. If puberty related hormones were necessary to consider someone an adult then people who are missing those hormones or puberty by mutation, disease, etc wouldn’t be considered adults which is not the case.
It prevents the acute release of puberty related hormones until they are old enough to be considered an adult under the law and able to make decisions about what they do or don’t consent to. The informed decision to prevent permanent changes by taking puberty blockers is made by a medical professional with parental or guardian consent to allow the child to mentally mature and make their own choice about taking hormones. One literary review notes the following positive and negative effects: "Positive outcomes were decreased suicidality in adulthood, improved affect and psychological functioning, and improved social life. Adverse factors associated with use were changes in body composition, slow growth, decreased height velocity, decreased bone turnover, cost of drugs, and lack of insurance coverage. "
This is two different things. It’s a fairly well known fact that the maturation of the adolescent mind is during puberty… which is the result of the aforementioned chemicals. I’ll further that by saying if you acknowledge someone is chemically different - is stunting that change actually a good thing? The answer isn’t known. There are too few peer reviewed studies with sufficient data to provide a credible answer.
As far as considering adulthood - I’d suggest tabling that as it unwinds into some ugly side conversations all of which have validity … but doesn’t belong here. There is a reason we use age as a generic determinant… and that is tied to general brain maturity and experience.
This is the problem. (I’ve made this assertion elsewhere in this thread) Those hormones are responsible for more than just sexual development. We can’t actually pause our bodies. We are bypassing a part of the development phase and saying “see it started again” when in reality it was just continuing for the remaining period it was supposed to be active for. This has side effects. (which you noted- See the definitions and risks on the mayo clinic site.)
Physical implications aside… we get very chicken and egg here: So do the parents recognize the child is the wrong sex and bring them to the doctor … or the child says I’m the wrong sex and the aforementioned happens? Obviously the latter. Based on that the child is making the decision based on minimal experience and should be given counselling and time to make that decision as they develop. Your mention of self image and suicide is not uncommon amongst teens period. Providing guidance and understanding is how that is solved… but we as Americans are very good at throwing pills at that problem… and frequently do.
None of the known risks or side effects include cognitive impairment, you are attributing to puberty blockers changes to cognitive development without research demonstrating the causal link between limiting puberty hormones and decreased or slowed cognitive development like the known negative effects. I also wouldn’t accept increased cognitive development as a positive effect under puberty blockers without justification either. Until there is sufficient justification for either position we are not justified reaching either conclusion.
I am concerned there is and will be increased public resistance to what the medical consensus supports because of the political scapegoating trans people are under, and wonder if we were talking about transhumanism in general instead focused specifically on transgenderism would the resistance be the same.
The discussions you’ve mentioned would likely start with a child experiencing distress reported to an adult or their parents noticing their distress and working with a medical doctor to identify the causes and treatment plans to consider. In the cases where the distress is related to a lasting pattern of gender dysphoria or gender nonconformity that is one of the criteria for prescribing puberty blockers.
This is a fair point and I will admit I did not have any research in mind when I brought it up… however I believe it’s fair to say that of the research that has been done very little focuses on this specific application and it’s long term effects.
I loathe politcs involving sexuality period. It’s one more way to splinter a community. We absolutely agree here.
While this is the case care should be given to how that information is interpreted. Toys, clothing choices, even colors can simply be a very neutral and innocent interest and may (from the child’s perspective) simply be something they enjoy. We as adults can overly assign meaning and weight to these choices which may impact the child’s perspective. Psychology in general can bandwagon quite a bit in this regard. I will say it has improved quite a bit but we’re all human. I digress. To your point I still believe that counseling is and should be the first step and medication should be (if used) used sparingly and ideally after some time has passed. I still firmly dislike the “it’s just a pause button” mentality people have. It’s far more complex than that- it needs to be respected as a weighty decision.