- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
Satanic Temple objects to governor’s push for more religion in schools and says members could act as student chaplains
Dark messengers of satanism could soon be walking the hallways of Florida’s public schools, and it’s a consequence of hard-right governor Ron DeSantis’s push for more religion in education.
Members of the Satanic Temple say they are poised to act as volunteer chaplains under a state law that took effect this week opening campuses to “additional counseling and support to students” from outside organizations.
Although HB 931 leaves the implementation of chaplain programs to individual school districts, and only requires schools to list a volunteer’s religion “if any”, DeSantis has made clear its intent is to restore the tenets of Christianity to public education.
Without the bill, DeSantis said at its signing in April: “You’re basically saying that God has no place [on campus]. That’s wrong.”
The satanists see the law, which comes amid a vigorous theocratic drive into education by the religious right nationally, as an equal opportunity: if Christian chaplains are permitted access to students, often at the most vulnerable and impressionable stages of their lives, then so are they.
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Dark messengers of satanism
Fucking Guardian… either falling for stupid propaganda or using scare words. Shameful either way.
The Satanic Temple’s Seven Fundamental Tenets:
I. One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II. The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III. One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV. The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one’s own.
V. Beliefs should conform to one’s best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one’s beliefs.
VI. People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one’s best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII. Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets
What sort of “dark messengers” preach compassion and justice?
I think that was meant to be tongue in cheek. The article also says:
There are, however, no plans to introduce studies of the dark arts or satanic rituals to any classroom. The Satanic Temple champions Satan not as a literal, omnipresent demon, but as a symbol of rebellion and resistance to authoritarianism. It says its strategy here is to highlight flagrant violations of the constitutionally protected separation of church and state.
If that was the intent, they shouldn’t have intended it that way. Because people won’t take it that way.
It was, but it was a poor time to joke when it’s such a common misconception.
It’s a good thing it’s a common misconception. The misconception is the point.
It is for fundamentalists, but sane people should know that the Satanic Temple is a secular organization.
How dare you? They’re religious, and enjoy every freedom given to religions by conservative politicians.
It’s religion detached from spirituality, just like some claim to be spiritual without religion.
definitely not a very good article opener then
Well this just proves that I’m right when I say their name is a double edged sword. On one hand, it’s inflammatory and mocking which creates a unique angle to engage politics with. Stirs up evangelicals while also being entirely harmless, making them look foolish.
But on the other hand, seen here and elsewhere, it creates confusion that limits the organization to just antagonism at times. I wish there were more non-antagonistic humanist groups for this exact reason.
There’s the church of the flying spaghetti monster
What sort of “dark messengers” preach compassion and justice?
“Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand” (Daniel 12:10).
The whole point of calling themselves Satanists is to spook Christians, and the article is playing into the joke on purpose.
What sort of “dark messengers” preach compassion and justice?
Christian missionaries.
Guessing you didn’t read the article, since they elaborated more about the Satanic temple further down?
I read it. Burying the lede doesn’t excuse the beginning.
I read it.
I’ve heard this lie before.
I bet you’re going to tell me you read it somewhere
yes, FS wrote a whiny post about how he didn’t know coupons existed on the internet, and how that it is everyone else’s fault.
He then proceeded to misread everyone’s comments, while following up with claims that no-one said X or Y, when they did. It was an absolute joke of a post.
So no, when FS claims he read something, I’ve got that (x) doubt meme on standby.
Sorry, I was just attempting to make a joke, nothing more than that!
Dude, it’s tongue in cheek. It’s meant to be funny. Even if you don’t find it so, it very obviously wasn’t meant to be taken seriously
Lots of people will take it seriously and they will not read to the end where it is explained. In fact, what many of them will see is that part in a little preview blurb and get worked up about it.
Well, let them? The people who would take it seriously and get worked up about it are the ones who are in support of this stupid law in the first place.
So, let’s just strengthen that outrage muscle then, huh?
What are they gonna do that they’re not already trying to do? Revolt? Subvert the rule of law? Shoot up some schools?
You assume the general populace can recognize intent in writing, and differentiate between things like comedy, satire, and factual statements when they aren’t explicitly declared in context.
The fact there is currently so much successful propaganda spread worldwide through traditional media that we’re seeing a large resurgence of extreme nationalism, xenophobia, and Nazism again, along with a current very public genocide with a ton of public support, proves that to be factually incorrect. The average person is fucking stupid.
It’s a British news outlet. Just because you’re reading it in the U.S. doesn’t mean it was written with an American sense of humor in mind.
Clearly no one but the British can possibly be familiar with British humor.
Are we then supposed to lower the standard of all writing to the lowest common denominator, then? I get your point, but I’m not sure the solution is to move to grade school levels of communication.
For some things, yeah, probably. If you’re trying to inform people, you need to adjust your communication to something they’ll understand (and you can stomach).
You don’t need to change your novel to appeal to everyone.
A lot of marketing and journalism already targets a sixth grade level because many people don’t read well.
I think it’s funny to call every Christian leader a pedophile rapist because it tends to be true. But for some reason the guardian doesn’t start every article about Christians that way…
To be fair, they call themselves The Satanic Temple. If they didn’t want to court the “dark messenger” notoriety in the first place, they would just call themselves something serious like The Humanist Society.
Q: What do you call people who believe in the existence of Satan?
A: Christians.
I’ve seen religious people treat the word Humanist as if it was a dirty word right alongside atheist and then conflating atheism and humanism with Satanism. “The best trick Satan ever pulled was making you believe he isn’t real.”
I suspect The Satanic Temple figured that no matter what they called themselves it’d be demonized so they beat the Christians to it.
You bring up a good a point, and it is meant to be provocative on purpose. It really helps remind Christian people of the importance of separation of religion and state when they see Satanic statues next to the ten commandments after they pass legislature requiring display of religious symbols and what not.
It’s one of the only effective ways to get these people to stop trying to push their religion on everyone else. Those types don’t typically listen to reason or compromise with others, for that matter.
For those in the back, god has no place
“Dark messengers for Satanism”… Modern journalism really is fucking stupid. The Satanic Temple doesn’t do anything like that, and starting your article out that way comes across as totally unserious and diminishes the work the Satanic Temple is actually out there doing.
Yeah I was going to say, do some basic research guys. The Satanic Temple does not actually believe in Satan.
Which is their agenda after all :)
The whole point of calling themselves Satanists is to spook Christians, and the article is playing into the joke on purpose.
Hey fair point!
They confused satanists with goths
Who are also not like that. My goodness. Let’s throw in another round of prejudices, shall we?
Huh? Goths are in all black.
Mostly they like wear black, true. But that’s not being “a dark messenger for Satanism”, which seems to be implied by your previous comment.
Hail Satan ⛧
Thank you Satanists.
Hail Satan!
Satanists doing God’s work… who knew?
The irony is that only Christians believe in Satan. Satanists don’t, it’s a humanist movement.
The Church of Satan are satanists.
Founded in 1966.
Yes … the most popular Satanist orgs are relatively recent.
Proud member of the Satanic Temple since 2021. Unlike catholics, christians, muslims, jewish, mormons, and scientologists, I’ve had nothing but great news from my religion since 😁 We just keep rolling out the hits, challenging religious overreach at every turn.
The Texas State Legislature’s Satanic Abortion Clinic
Ejaculate Misconception too good.
Burn churches!
Real Spanish Civil War Hours
Thank God we have Satanists.
I really need that on a Tshirt.
CGPT40 tried
Why first one looks like Icon of Sin?
We’ll never stop. 🙂
Little disingenuous to call secular atheists satanists, but I guess they sort of asked for it when they picked the very troll-ey name for their organization.
I don’t think volunteer and charity work is very satanic, at any rate.
I don’t think volunteer and charity work is very satanic, at any rate.
Why not?
Well, the only strong source for what could be satanic would be the various Abrahamic religious texts. I’m no expert, but I haven’t heard charity work being frequently associated with satanic principles in those pages.
If you want to go on the Hebrew side, ha-satan (the satan) means something like ‘the adversary’ and it’s arguably more of a title than a person. There are plenty of cases where actual charity would be against the pain the system is causing
You are letting Christians tell you what Satanists are instead of letting Satanists tell you what they are.
Except the Satanic Temple does not believe that a Satan exists.
While nothing stops them from adopting the name, it doesn’t mean we should suddenly ignore old sources on the topic.
So which Elves are allowed to exist? Tolkeins or Santa Clauses? Do we have to deny one because the other exists to someone else
tbf, it is a common and valid complaint that so many people want elves to be tall now, when that runs contrary to their mythological history.
Elves being diminutive is actually the newer invention.
Love it, thank you so much for the giggle.
As someone brought up initially in a primary RC school I always find the fact that while they had a top notch reputation for giving you a “better education” than general comprehensive schools really ironic because their science dept actually taught me, that there are no fairies in the sky and it’s actually where we end up, as Earth burps 🌨️
I for one welcome these chaplins, elves, and umpa lumpas in our RC schools. Gives a bit of diversity.
*typo
I didn’t say ignore old sources but at the same time i’m not sure what old source you are referring to. The Bible will not tell you anything about the satanic temple so I guess you mean something else?
I would say the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot.
Well, like I said, I don’t know a lot about religious studies. If there are any sources about satanic doctrine provided by people that actually believe he is real, then those should be included as well.
So the burden of proof is now tied to people who actually believe in X entity existing (don’t move the goal post)? How does one validate that a source in this context (you cant, or there arent any)?
Thats the whole point, you cant philosophically prove anything.
You mean Lucifer? The light bringer?
Or maybe the serpent that only told Eve that there’s nothing stopping her from eating the fruit that would allow her to understand the difference between good and evil?
How many people did Satan kill in the Bible? And Yahweh?
Who’s the actual bad guy here?
I would not consider the Abrahamic texts to be canon about Satanism. That’s like learning about Native American culture from Spanish conquistadors.
I don’t consider the Abrahamic texts to be canon about Christianity. Well at least not any more.
Considering Satan is a fiction, I’d say Satan can be whatever you want him to be. It doesn’t help that the Bible doesn’t actually explain what happened to cast Satan into Hell other than there being a war in Heaven. Pretty much all we get is Revelation 12:7-10.
7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
Also, there’s Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
So if God creates evil, what does Satan even do? Carry out his work for him? That seems to be what Twain thought when he wrote Letters from Earth. Seems as good a source as any.
Considering Satan is a fiction, I’d say Satan can be whatever you want him to be.
This is probably also true for the Christian God. But let’s assume for the sake of discussion that the Bible is a factual account: the Book of Numbers already refers to the worship of the Semitic god Ba’al in the “ancient” people of Israel. Etymologically speaking, Ba’al is identical to what later became “Beelzebub”, one of the names of Satan; it is reported that the statues of Asherah (the wife of YHWH) and Ba’al were destroyed. Ultimately, according to the Bible, the followers of YHWH waged a “holy war” against the followers of the other gods and declared these gods to be the “Antichrist” by a mere act of speech.
It is not known whether the followers of Ba’al were really less merciful than those who later waged crusades.
The problem with treating the Bible as a factual account is nothing adds up in it. Saying Beelzebub is a “name of Satan” is really misleading and a result of later negotiation with the text. Just like the serpent in the garden of Eden wasn’t Satan until folks decided it was - there is no support for that in the text at all.
Satan is more like calling someone enemy - you can have lots of enemies without them all being the same entity.
Also I’m not sure how the “god” (Satan) that wanted humans to have freewill is the bad guy, when “God” for some reason was purposefully trying to keep humans as puppets (or play things) in his little garden. And then had to punish the humans as soon as they could do what they wanted instead of the story laid out for them.
Reminds me a lot of President Business from the Lego movie. He wants everything to be perfect but people keep doing whatever they want to and screwing it up, so he wants to use the “kragle” to “fix” the plan and make everything perfect again.
Volunteer work with the express intention of challenging Christian theocracy and the church’s dominion.
Seems pretty Satanic to me 🤷♀️
religion and capitalism - the banes of human existence
They are mere tools for power-hungry egomaniacs, who have no regard for the well-being of others. Tools which make it especially easy for them.
Replace religion and capitalism by something else and you get a similar picture.
Hell is other people. It’s humanity itself which is the bane of human existence.
i believe it’s possible for us to be better. to accept the ‘human condition’ is a death sentence as a species. throughout history, we have brief moments of exemplary behavior. we are capable of more. don’t accept the current state of affairs.
I like to think so too. Humans have a lot of potential, for the good and the bad. It’s important to nurture the good and diminish the bad.
God has no place on campuses. And god has no place in the government. God is dead.
That assumes god existed
Ok kids, time for your lesson…
“I always thought there couldn’t possibly be a God, with all the evil in the world. But perhaps… all this evil exists because there is a God. Perhaps, yes, perhaps this God just isn’t a particularly nice guy. It’s possible that God isn’t a DJ, but an arsehole.”
“He’s probably both. A DJ who exclusively plays Rammstein at a kid’s birthday party.”
“You know the saying that God created Man in His image? Well, look around. If you assume that God is an arsehole, it suddenly makes a lot of sense.”
Freely translated from The Kangaroo Chronicles by Marc-Uwe Kling
It’d be nice if the FSM “church” did the same.
~OH sorry I thought DeSantis~was a satanist
DeSatanist
