• theodewere@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    his name is a really easy banner to fly now… he basically can’t do anything wrong anymore… he died a hero trying to save Russians from the corruption of Putin… the anger will just grow, especially once that army in Ukraine starts knocking on doors inside Russia…

    everyone sees that Putin just did it because he was AFRAID of Prigozhin

    • paddirn@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Even though I think that’s how it may have played in the West, it seemed like Prigozhin stayed pretty loyal to Putin all throughout, he was really careful to not lay any blame on Putin, more that he was misled. If anything, I wonder if blame will be placed on Shoigu, the Defense minister, that’s who Prigozhin’s beef was with I thought. I’d assume there will be some mob-style reprisals against Shoigu and/or the military leadership rather than against Putin himself. That still may benefit Ukrainians regardless.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Putin won’t axe Shoigu he’s his perfectly loyal Tuvan pet… not necessarily loyal to Putin (he started under Yeltsin), but to the office of the president: Shoigu is guaranteed to not make a move for office because he has no chance in the first place because racism.

        He’s pretty much the only person among the Siloviki who is guaranteed to not use their position as head of the army to putsch. Shoigu’s best play is to be loyal to whoever happens to be his boss, and that’s what he’s doing. He may be otherwise incompetent bu he understands politics.

        (Side note: Tuva does have a kickass national anthem, with throat singing and everything)

        • macracanthorhynchus@mander.xyz
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          1 year ago

          Thank you for linking that. The anthem absolutely slaps. Now I wish I was Tuvan. Or, at the very least, I wish the Russian Federation would collapse so Tuva can participate in the Olympics under their own flag, and then I will cheer for them so I can hear this anthem.

      • theodewere@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        i don’t disagree with one bit of your analysis, i’m just not sure Shoigu will be enough once Ukrainians start driving tanks down Russian highways… popcorn time in any case, like you say…

        • athos77@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          once Ukrainians start driving tanks down Russian highways

          I doubt the West will supply arms for a large-scale invasion of Russia. They’ve already made it clear that the stuff that they are supplying is to be used only in Ukraine, occupied Ukraine, and Crimea, and not anywhere in Russia proper. And Ukraine has been very careful to strike inside Russia only with weapons that do not come from Western governments, and to aim only at military and government targets inside Russia. I doubt a ‘real’ invasion will happen. Drone worries and border skirmishes, certainly; actual march-on-Moscow invasion, I doubt it.

          • theodewere@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            nothing on this Earth is going to stop that Army… they will do what they want now… you just expressed every Russian’s delusional dream…

            Russians have some waking up in store for them

            • athos77@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              And on a more realistic note, Ukraine can only continue to fight as long as they have effective weapons, in large numbers - numbers too large for it’s treasury to handle.

              They have to get the arms from somewhere. Their best bet right now is the West, which has large amounts of various weapons designed to fight the Russians.

              If they lost the support of the West, it’s possible they could cobble together enough materiel from other sources - countries that would welcome Russian weakness, or welcome Russia’s distraction, or see Ukraine as a buffer, or who simply want influence in the area. They could cobble together an arms supply from those sources, but the supply would be erratic, be less designed for interoperability, and would likely run out faster than the Ukrainians’ need. I mean, even the US is struggling to supply enough munitions to Ukraine, I’m not sure who can keep up with the needed supply if the US steps out.

              • theodewere@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                that is not an Army “being supported by” anyone… it exists. it was armed and trained by NATO, that’s correct… it is basically a NATO force now… deal with it or not, they’re going to show you…

                there is no force anywhere in Europe that can stop that Army now… it doesn’t matter if you understand that or not… they don’t need help…

                • athos77@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  You can have the best, most elite fighting force on the face of the planet. They still need weapons, they still need ammo, they still need grenades and rockets and artillery shells, their weapons and tanks and APC’s and drones still need servicing and replacements.

                  In short, Ukraine needs an entire war-oriented production line and logistics/supply system. They have one now, courtesy of the EU, the US, and Ukraine’s other allies. A significant percentage of that military aid came from the US. The US is interested in helping Ukraine regain it’s full sovereignty including Crimea, and protecting it’s European allies. It has absolutely no interest in or appetite for, any real invasion of Russian soil. The US and the EU have repeatedly told Ukraine that Ukraine cannot use any materiel supplied by the US, the EU, or European nations, in any attack on Russia itself.

                  Ukraine cannot ‘win’ an invasion of Russia with the weapons it currently has: they don’t have enough weapons or anywhere near enough ammo to do it. They may have enough for quick strike forces, but they certainly don’t have enough men to actually occupy Russia. Your dream of Ukrainian tanks rolling down Russian highways is just that - a dream.

                  As for your assertion that “that is not an Army “being supported by” anyone […] they don’t need help”: here is a list of military retirement that the US has sent so far - it doesn’t even invite what Ukraine has received from other countries or companies. Please explain to me how Ukraine, even with the best army in the world, would win it’s war without the weapons and ammo supplied by it’s allies. And again, this is just a list of the US military aid, not the EU, not Australia or any of the other countries and companies sending supplies. U.S. security assistance to Ukraine between January 20, 2020, and June 27, 2023:

                  [Please see my reply to this comment, it’s a long list]

                  • athos77@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    10,000 Javelin anti-armor systems

                    70,000 other anti-armor systems and

                    munitions

                    1,700 Stinger anti-aircraft systems

                    4,000 TOW missiles

                    35,000 grenade launchers and small arms,

                    with ammunition

                    100,000 sets of body armor and helmets

                    Thousands of night-vision devices,

                    surveillance systems, thermal imagery

                    systems, optics, and laser rangefinders

                    C-4 and other explosives

                    Explosive-ordnance-disposal equipment

                    M18A1 Claymore mines

                    Anti-tank mines

                    Mine-clearing equipment

                    Obstacle-emplacement equipment

                    Medical supplies

                    Field equipment, cold-weather gear,

                    generators, and spare parts

                    Chemical, biological, radiological, and

                    nuclear protective equipment

                    18 armored bridging systems

                    160 155mm Howitzers and ammunition

                    72 105mm Howitzers and ammunition

                    47 120mm mortar systems

                    10 82mm mortar systems

                    67 81mm mortar systems

                    58 60mm mortar systems

                    203mm, 152mm, 130mm, 122mm, 120mm,

                    and 25mm ammunition

                    38 HIMAR systems

                    60,000 122mm Grad rockets

                    Precision-guided rockets

                    Rocket launchers and ammunition

                    154 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles

                    4 Bradley Fire Support Team vehicles

                    31 Abrams tanks

                    45 T-72B tanks (via the Czech Republic)

                    125 Stryker armored personnel carriers

                    300 M113 armored personnel carriers

                    250 M1117 armored security vehicles

                    200 armored medical-treatment vehicles

                    500 MRAP vehicles

                    125mm, 120mm, and 105mm tank

                    ammunition

                    2,000 Humvees

                    354 tactical vehicles

                    100 light tactical vehicles

                    68 trucks

                    124 trailers

                    10 command post vehicles

                    30 ammunition support vehicles

                    6 armored utility trucks

                    8 logistics support vehicle

                    89 heavy fuel tankers and 105 fuel trailers

                    1 Patriot air defense battery and munitions

                    8 NASAM systems

                    20 Avenger air defense systems

                    HAWK air defense systems and munitions

                    Laser-guided rocket systems

                    RIM-7 missiles

                    Antiaircraft guns and ammunition

                    Equipment to integrate with and sustain

                    Ukraine’s systems

                    9 anti-drone gun trucks and ammunition

                    10 anti-drone laser-guided rocket systems

                    High-speed anti-radiation missiles

                    (HARMs)

                    Precision aerial munitions

                    6,000 Zuni aircraft rockets (could function

                    as air defense)

                    7,000 Hydra-70 aircraft rockets

                    20 Mi-17 helicopters

                    ScanEagle drones

                    Puma drones

                    JUMP drones

                    CyberLux K8 drones

                    Switchblade drones

                    Phoenix Ghost drones

                    ALTIUS-600 drones (can also be used for

                    surveillance)

                    Munitions

                    2 Harpoon coastal defense systems

                    62 coastal and riverine patrol boats

                    Unmanned coastal defense vessels

                    Port and harbor security equipment

                    4 satellite communications antennas

                    2 radars for unmanned aerial systems

                    21 air surveillance radars

                    70 counter-artillery and counter-

                    mortar radars

                    20 multi-mission radars

                    Tactical secure communications systems

                    Counter air defense capability

                    Counter–unmanned aerial systems

                    Electronic jamming equipment

                    SATCOM terminals and services

                    Commercial satellite imagery services

                  • theodewere@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    you’re working really hard… good luck with that…

                    In short, Ukraine…

                    i love that you actually used the words, “in short”… just to demonstrate what a troll you are…