Why are knife control laws so strong in the United States as opposed to gun control?
I was realizing it would be nice to have a knife with auto opening for boxes, etc., basically a switch blade or similar, and I found out that they are super illegal in my state (and/or there are length restrictions, or both sides of the blade can’t be sharp, etc), but I can go into a sporting goods store and buy a pistol and ammo in under 30min.
Shooting open an Amazon box seems inefficient. What is up with restrictive knife-control laws??
Shooting open an Amazon box seems inefficient.
True, but it’s the American way.
When a moral panic happens, a lot of things get blown out of proportion. A good example was the panic relating to D&D and satanism. There was a huge panic sometime in the 50s or 60s about the police dealing with young thugs with concealed switch blades, which could be hidden, and then deployed one handed so fast a cop couldn’t draw his weapon fast enough. So this panic got a lot of laws drawn up to ban any switch blade.
Since then, the there are knives that skirt the law by not having a spring which force the blade open, instead a tension bar. There are still types are illegal to carry if a Cop would find out you have it, like “Out the front” switch knives.
The stupid part is, there are plenty of “one hand deployable” knives on the market that are 100% legal. But the laws never get revisited. In my state it’s illegal to have a out the front switch blade, yet a bunch of high end OTF knives are for sale at a sporting store. They just post a sign that says “Know your local laws”, which some how makes it okay to sell.
If anyone has more to add, or corrects, let me know.
Seems correct to me. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
The arbitrarity of some states’ knife laws is also a problem. I don’t remember which state (OK pre ~2015 law updates perhaps?), but I read about one that had few carry restrictions below a certain blade size (somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 inches, IIRC), and if you’re caught carrying one over the limit, you basically have to give a specific purpose for having it. Assuming your case goes to trial, this means it’s more or less up to the judge to determine if your use was valid, which is juuuuuuuussst flexible enough to persecute the “right” people. (assuming I’m remembering correctly that this was in Oklahoma, that would be Native Americans)
Switching gears; Some More News had a pretty comprehensive video about moral panics, which also includes some history on switchblades in particular, for those interested.
I think it’s 1.5 inches in Connecticut. Lol
It also goes to show how laws made during the moral panic don’t go away even decades after that panic fades.
This is often in mind when responsible gun owners are critical of more gun laws. The govt won’t go “that was silly of us here’s your bit of freedom back” even if a law objectively had zero positive effect
For example, short barrelled rifles are still heavily regulated. Pistols aren’t nearly as regulated.
Yes for those that don’t know in the US any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches needs to have a buch of extra paperwork and a tax stamp to the ATF to register it as a “short barreled rifle” or it is a weapons related felony. The reason behind it is the government was afraid of gangs using easily concealed weapons.
The most common rifle of the US military, the M4, used a 14.5 inch barrel. Even if everything else was legal for the average citizen to own by making it semi auto only, that barrel makes it a short barreled rifle by law. But add an extra 1.5 inches and it’s perfectly fine in the eyes of the law.
The way to avoid the pain of excessive paperwork and tax stamp is to replace the stock with a “pistol brace” and make it a “pistol”. You know, the category of gun used most by criminals like gang members because it’s easy to conceal.
Depends on the state. Down here there are pretty much zero restrictions except with an asterisk that it’s illegal to harm someone with them… AKA, an extra charge of you’re a dick and stab someone.
I’ve been carrying an “out the front automatic” for the last few years.
It’s kinda funny that they’re like knives are cool unless you stab someone with one. If only we had other laws covering the legality of stabbing someone. 😁
Prosecutors really like those add-on laws.
Because so-called second amendment advocates are really just gun nuts, and so over the years they have worked hard to maintain the right to keep and bear guns, rather than arms.
Thus knives, swords, halberds, maces, and all other ‘arms’ have had restrictions go unchallenged, or at least, not challenged by an extensive and well funded network of advocacy.
Because knife control doesn’t have an entry on the constitution.
Because there is no National Knife Association to lobby for knife rights.
Are knives not arms?
Right, wouldn’t a hand grenade or a suicide vest count as arms? But I get shit for exercising my 2nd. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!
Similarly to religion and the bible, words mean whatever people want them to mean.
You definitely need to start shooting open your Amazon boxes
Not when he/she is buying dynamite though.
Do it. For legal change.
Heck, do it for science.
Nah boss, pretty sure the science of gunning down a pack of dynamite has already been figured out.
You don’t need a switchblade to open boxes. A box cutter (hence the name) works just fine.
If you think box cutters are too blue-collar, get a multitool with a knife on it (a “pocketknife” with other gizmos).
A steak knife works fine too. So would the end of an axe, or the tip of a freshly cut key. That isn’t the point. But surely you know that…?
If your goal was to open boxes, then it was the point. If you’re saying my comment was not to the point, then your question about opening boxes was disingenuous. But surely you know that…?
You don’t need a blade specifically designed for stabbing to open boxes.
If you’re not being purposefully obtuse, then let me clarify: I said boxes “etc,” but the question is clearly about laws and regulation around knives vs. Guns, as indicated by the title, not about how to open boxes.
The idea that an easy-to-open knife is “specifically designed for stabbing” is idiotic, but I guess that type of ignorant reasoning unintentionally addresses the actual question about why these absurd knife laws exist.
Also, for future reference, you can usually spot the questions by the sentences that are followed by a question mark.
Because knife doesn’t have NKA to lobby for it.
I wouldn’t mind if they did honestly
I suspect it is because knives are not included in the second amendment of the constitution. That is a pretty easy argument for people to use against gun regulation (whether or fair or not), but there is no such thing for knives.
Knives are included in “arms.” In 2008, the Supreme Court ruled in Heller that the term “arms” has the same meaning as it did in the 18th century and includes anything that can be used for defense, carried for offensive or defensive action, or used to strike another person.
Wow, thanks for sharing that! So much for my thought… It makes yours more poignant though. Perhaps it is just a matter of obsession? Are the folks who obsess over firearms different than the folks who obsess over knives?
I would say so, though while looking at reviews for a new pocket knife, I realized there’s a lot of obsessed people who, like gun people, think owning knives is a personality.
I guess knives aren’t socially seen as defensive arms even if legally they are
Laws on the books generally don’t get overturned unless they are specifically mentioned in a court ruling, or there is some action by a legislative body. If you want to be able to buy/sell switchblades, you could challenge the law and see where it goes. But apparently nobody has bothered to take it to court.
I moved to Japan where knives are also heavily restricted. If you live in Japan, you need a permit to purchase anything with a fixed blade over 15cm and it must be kept in the home. You can’t legally carry a pocket knife with a blade longer than 6cm (I think 8cm if it’s a folding but not fixed blade) and even then, if stopped, you need to have a specific reason for carrying it around.
It was really weird to me, as someone who carried a pocket knife basically everywhere. I did learn, though, that “in case I need to open boxes” is a case that has come up like twice in 10 years.
As for guns here, handguns are not allowed at all. There are licenses for airguns (pellet guns), rifles, and shotguns. Separately, there are licenses for trapping and hunting that do grant some permissions outside of what I wrote above (hunting/trapping license but no gun license means you’re going to be killing your catch with knife, spear, strangulation, drowning, or electrocution).
Interesting. I will say, I use my pocket knife usually at least once a day for one thing or another. They’re surprisingly useful for all sorts of tasks.
The permit requirement does not apply to kitchen knives, does it? Been some time, but I travelled to Tokio quite frequently for work, and always made it a point to go to kappabashi and get a nice cooking knife, some of the longer than 20 cm.
There’s a tourist exemption, but the knives have to be packaged and legally can’t be opened.
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They aren’t: This is 100% state dependent. Some states have extremely permissive laws allowing you to carry anything from a switchblade to a greatsword if you want.
Yes, and gun laws are state dependent as well. I’m not talking about federal law (though technically the Federal Switchblade Act of 1958 is still in force), I’m saying that arguably the majority of states in the United States have more permissive gun laws than knife laws, and it’s absurd.
Most of the truly ridiculous knife laws are in states with equally ridiculous gun laws. A few have been challenged under 2A grounds with some degree of success but it just isn’t being pursued that much.
we have had a lot of laws against defense to like body armor or nonlethal weapons. its wierd. I remember watching a pbs round table with degerberg on it and he was talking about where are ll the murder corpses with shuriken wounds. H liked arnis because as he says there is no government in the world that can outlaw sticks.
Now in English please.
It is. Let me help you with your comprehension. The only real issues are that “all” and “he” are missing their vowels in two places and none of the names are capitalised. If that makes it illegible then that is on you. Sure, it helps if you already know (Fred) Degerberg and what PBS, Shuriken and Arnis means but we do have search engines.
He is not wrong about the stick.
The US has strong knife laws? I carry a knife almost everyday and this is the first I’m hearing of this. The only time I can’t take my knife somewhere is if no weapons at all are allowed there, like government buildings.
I’m my state there are restrictions, but they are pretty much accessory charges that you won’t get unless you are a dipshit. You do have to have a firearms permit to carry an automatic knife though, I am not aware of anybody getting charged with that and that alone.
What is funny is you can have a ka-bar on your belt not concealed and be fine, but you aren’t suppose to carry a pocketknife with a blade over 3.5". Also if the fixed blade knife is sharpened on both sides of the blade, that is a no-no, but if it folds it is fine. I think they just removed the ban on butterfly knifes or it has the firearms permit exemption now, but I would have to check to confirm.
As you can imagine, the gun laws make about as much sense and don’t do much to help the problem of violence.
It depends on the state, my state has almost no knife laws, but in New York (for example) nearly all folding knives are technically considered illegal gravity knives. Basically if you open a knife 99% of the way, and are able to flick it the remaining 1% open it’s considered an illegal gravity knife.
It’s pretty dumb.
Not anymore in NY, but yeah.
Oh, good to hear they repealed that law.
What state do you live in? You might be surprised to find you are technically breaking the law. Or you’re just carrying a simple little folding knife.
I went looking at every state I’ve lived in and the one with the most restrictions was Texas, obviously states like New York or California will be more restrictive, but the only real restrictions that I found outside of new england / California, were switchblades or “automatic opening knives”, and carrying in locations like schools and government buildings, which I expected. I used to carry a 8” hunting knife (13” overall) when I did a bunch of outdoor work, now I carry a smaller 3” folding pocketknife (6” overall).
Did you look at the length restrictions in Connecticut? 🤣
If you look at the timing of most the laws against specific types of knives… you’re going to notice a pattern where there was some scare involving some minority or alt group.
Switch blades were outlaws after Hollywood depicted African American villains as gangsters with them.
Same with ballisongs and Asian gangsters/villians.
All of that said, auto-openers have a hair trigger and I would suggest instead getting a good flipper you can easily flick open. Benchmade bugout is my EDC (not for fighting, it’s light and solid.)
