Probably better to post in the github issue rather than replying here.
I say yes!!
I have a particular set of people that actually follow me from community to community, just to downvote what I say and the articles I post. All because I posted a neutral article about the Green Party to the c/politics sub. That made them mad enough to be obsessed about me. lol
So if you are determined enough to do that, then ya shouldn’t be upset that people can see what you’re doing.
You don’t, you just pretend that you do.
Hey, wow! What a coincidence. Funny that YOU of all people, would show up at the EXACT time I am talking about people following me. Crazy coincidence, don’t ya think?
It’d be super fun to see who it is following me and downvoting me, right? I mean, not that YOU’D ever do that, right? All because I posted a Green Party article to a politics sub. You suuuurrreee wouldn’t be the type of person to do that, I bet! Right?
Here you are throwing baseless accusations my way again.
You have proof about those, right?
I may have proof soon. But you have nothing to worry about, right?
Why are you throwing these insane accusations around if you have no proof?
Hey, keeping posting screen shots of your interactions with me, when I haven’t mentioned your name at all, sure doesn’t make it look like you are stalking me. For sure it doesn’t. Don’t worry man, it’s all good.
You don’t look guilty at all. Relax.
Then you have nothing to worry about.
I didn’t say you did it. In fact, I said you never would do that.
I mean, you wouldn’t be the kind of person to do that, right? Not you. Surely YOU wouldn’t do that.
Right?
@UniversalMonk @SatansMaggotyCumFart I don’t know you, I’ve never seen you before, and I’ll likely never see you again, so feel free to skip reading this, but I’m absolutely not surprised that your posts get downvotes if this is indicative of your average comment. Accusatory, sarcastic, and grating are not the adjectives that I associate with positive energy. I don’t think public voting is going to solve the issue you described.
But it would make things more fun!
You’ve posted a comment or post roughly every thirteen minutes for the last ten days.
You also accuse me of crazy things then hide behind ‘I actually didn’t say it about you’ because you have no proof.
I haven’t accused you of anything. And what does the amount I post have anything to do with this thread?
Other than, well the people who follow me around, def have a lot of work cut out for them. I mean, fingers must get sore with that downvote button.
But hey man, showing up in a thread at the exact same time I am talking about someone stalking me, and then throwing up screen shots of the number of posts I make doesn’t make you look guilty at all.
Nope. No way could we be talking about you, friend.
I sort by new.
It isn’t a conspiracy.
SatansMaggotyCumFart is one username I immediately identify because I see their comments so often. Are you sure?
Well in this thread, just now, he just posted yet another screenshot of how many posts I make. Which he has already done about me earlier today in unrelated communities, so…
He REALLY likes to keep track of how may posts I make and then takes screenshots of it. lmao
Yeah, but then what?
So you have confirmed that you have a fan club that likes to downvote you. What would you even do with this info?
Well I’d call them out on it and ask why they feel the need to do that.
Maybe, just maybe, if they know people could see how obsessive they are, it would take the fun out of the stalking.
I mean, at the end of the day, I don’t care THAT much one way or the other. I just think it would be funny to give them a shoutout and welcome them to another round of downvoting.
I posted an article about a ninety-year-old woman being the oldest person to graduate from Illinois University. 9 downvotes within one minute of posting it. lmao
Right now they are laughing and rubbing their hands together when I post something, just so they can downvote it. Which is funny and sad. Like am I really that important?! lol
So public or not public, I don’t care, but we can vote for, I’d say yes.
But I won’t cry if Lemmy doesn’t make the votes public. And I doubt there will be many Lemmy users that want their votes public, so I don’t think it’s gonna happen.
Once you know the accounts doing it, you can block them so they can’t interact with your posts anymore.
I’m under the impression that they can still downvote but you won’t be able to see it.
Yeah, that’s the impression I’m under. But if I’m wrong, then that would be awesome!
I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works on Lemmy. For some reason “block” here is really what “mute” is everywhere else on fedi.
Yeah, that was what I thought to. It’s just mute. Which is nice for the quiet, but I’d be great if the block would make them unable to downvote you and your posts as well. And it’d be nice if it wouldn’t even let them reply to your posts. Because muting doesn’t stop the poison the spread, just my personal ability to not see it.
I’d be great if the block would make them unable to downvote you and your posts as well. And it’d be nice if it wouldn’t even let them reply to your posts.
I’m not entirely sure that’s going to work out the way people think it will.
Suppose I’m some jackass that gets off on harassing you: if blocks prevented me from interacting with your content, and you blocked me, I would have confirmation that I’ve successfully gotten under your skin. I can then just make another account and continue what I’m doing.
If blocks don’t notify or provide indication to the blocked party, they would either escalate their behavior (while you are blissfully unaware) and get banned by a moderator, or give up and move on to someone else.
There’s also considering how that’s going to work with moderators and admins: do they get to bypass the block and continue to comment and interact with you against your wishes? Does it hide your posts from them if they’re blocked? It’s a lot harder to design this type of blocking on a community-centric platform than it is to do for a microblogging platform like Twitter or Tumblr.
Because muting doesn’t stop the poison the spread, just my personal ability to not see it.
That’s what mods and admins are supposed to do. It’s not the users’ responsibility to moderate the behavior of others, and it’s a lot less stressful than trying to stop toxicity when you only have words in your moderator toolbox.
Fair points!
I’m not sure which two trolls decided to downvote your comment saying “fair points,” but here’s an upvote for being a good sport about listening to me explain why your preferred implementation of blocking might not be more effective than what we have now.
I’ve seen a few “There’s no record of this comment” and when I open up the thread in a private tab, it’s someone I’ve bumped heads with but don’t remember/care if I blocked them or they blocked me. I always wondered if it goes both ways, which it should, imo.
I wish.
Wait, does that mean that they can’t downvote the articles I post, or just that I personally wouldn’t see them?
Like is that possible now when we block someone, or can the blocked person still downvote our stuff right now?
The user above is wrong. Blocking is only one-directional and you won’t see comments and posts from them any longer, but they still see the things you posts.
Ahhh, ok. That’s what I thought, but I was kinda hoping for a different answer. Thank you!
Easiest next step would be contacting the instance admins (either your own or the remote ones) to notify them of this unwanted behaviour.
However, this particular user has deluded themself into believing this grandiose nonsense that they have a club of users who stalk them to downvote their stuff, when in reality we all come across them naturally because:
- Lemmy is a pretty small place.
- They’re a reasonably prolific commenter.
- Every time they show up somewhere, it’s a woe-is-me victim complex about how they’re being downvoted (immediately drawing attention) or making the absolute shittest political takes imaginable, which again draws attention and downvotes. This could definitely be survivorship bias where I only notice their username on comments that are doing these two things and not on normal ones.
I personally do not give enough of a shit about this user to waste any precious time or effort stalking them across Lemmy. (Source: I came across this post organically and would almost assuredly be one of the users Monk is talking about.)
I personally do not give enough of a shit about this user to waste any precious time or effort stalking them across Lemmy.
And I wish more people felt that way!
Got up to 49 downvotes for an article talking about a 90 year-old woman graduating college, brah. In a sub about college, with just 3 subscribers. So I deleted, and posted again. And 10 reports about it being an advertisement (which it wasn’t so it didn’t get removed). lmao
But yeah, I’m just being grandiose.
And one day after I got called a Russian Troll Farm employee after posting an article about the Green Party in the c/politics sub. With 20 DM’s telling me to go back to Russia. Yeah, I’m just being grandiose. Probably all just a coincidence!
And by the way, me talking about doesn’t mean I am crying and thinking I’m a victim.
I give zero real world fucks about my downvotes. I’ll discuss it. It’d be cool to prove it with a public downvoting system.
But I don’t really care if it happens or not.
And fuck all of you, I’m still gonna post any interesting article about third parties I see. :)
But hey, public voting names would def prove me wrong or right. So bring it on! :)
The specific college was Brigham Young University, a well-known conservative Mormon college that mandates religious education.
The persecution complex with a total lack of self reflection is truly epic.
Moreover, they note that it’s a small community with three subscribers, which could actually hold weight as evidence of brigading if we were on Reddit. But on Lemmy? Nah, you kind of just see everything.
If we’re sorting by new on /r/all, I need to scroll back several pages on RiF to even see something that was posted 30 seconds ago; the chance that more than a few users will see the same feed there is tiny.
On Lemmy, by contrast, sorting ‘All’ by new gives me posts in the last 10-ish minutes on just the first page; things just move a ton more slowly. Consequently, there’s a lot more outsiders who are liable to see and interact with your post in a small community.
Yep!
Wow I want my obsessed about me haters too. Where are you people
Wow I want my obsessed about me haters too. Where are you people
Go post an article about the Green Party into the c/politics sub. Not only will you get plenty of people following you to downvote, but you’ll get called a “russian troll farm employee” every single day. So double win!!
Which politics comm
c/politics. Great mods. But the majority of users there really really hate the Green Party. lmao
What server though
Oh, Lemmy.world
Ah thanks had it blocked
You had some point, this looks like it will be absolutely deranged experience
deleted by creator
Considering making votes public, not considering making mod actions inform the user they occur.
I can see where their priorities are.
Making votes something mods can see is one thing but public is whole other can of worms.
Edit: Spleling
Gathered some thoughts here
Potential positives:
- Any admin can already review voting activity, but some people don’t realize that. This change would make it less surprising
- it would make it easier for non-admin users to study voting activity and find abuse
- it would make it consistent with other platforms that we federate with, which can already see votes
Potential downsides:
-
People will report voting activity that they don’t like, even if it’s not malicious.
- Admins will need to set up rules on what activity they will act on (and also take action against people that spam bad reports).
- It would also help to have automated tools to review voting activity since it’s hard to do that manually.
-
It’s another option for abuse, similar to bringing up past comment history
Both could be dealt with but it would make moderation somewhat harder
Likely bad:
- Mods and admins can ban people for upvoting content in communities they aren’t in charge of. This might work on a small scale, but I’d caution against it because it often misses nuance:
- it’s very easy to accidentally vote on something while scrolling (unless there is a consistent pattern)
- even if the community is seen as “bad”, the post might be good (ex. it could be calling out the community)
Bad
- it lowers the barrier for other types of abuse, such as tracking vote activity for advertising, approximating when a user is asleep, etc
likes and votes should be anonymous and user names should only be displayed for comments.
Votes are public in the underlying protocol - mbin users and lemmy admins can see votes. They are not anonymous. This is only about whether votes should be displayed in Lemmy.
Yes I know, I said “should”.
That would require a major change in the underlying protocol, and it could enable easy vote manipulation since there is no way for admins to watch out for malicious voting patterns.
they are already talking about major changes. welcome to the conversasion
This is not the conversation about the underlying protocol, which is ActivityPub. This discussion is merely within Lemmy. Lemmy does not have its own protocol, it uses the ActivityPub protocol. ActivityPub has no support currently for private votes. Lemmy’s GitHub repository is not the place to suggest ActivityPub changes.
Your arguing about the logistics of the changes, everyone else is here to discuss the change it self.
Idk if I trust that some powermod won’t send me to hell if I vote against something they strongly believe in, akwardtheturtle style
VOTES ARE ALREADY PUBLIC.
If you are using Lemmy because you want privacy, you’ve already missed the boat, everything is wide assed open for datamining and advertising fingerprinting.
I’d hoped for an open system with open APIs and open implementations that allow everyone equal access to the system and bring equal accountability.
If people just want Reddit style fiefdoms with no real public accountability possible, then make a blackjack and hookers fork.
I’m really not interested in a system that bakes in more authoritarian secrecy and control, which could very well be an unexpected outcome of backlash to how this has been presented.
This would probably escalate a lot of arguments that break out in comment sections.
I thought they were already???
Like how/why wouldn’t they be public? Even if the data isn’t readily accessible via a gui it’s gotta be somewhere so that federation works. Unless you’ve been thirsty in your main it shouldn’t be a problem?
Am I missing something?
I would like the option to make it public on my community. I have asked people not to downvote amateur bakers for just trying to improve their skills but some assholes don’t listen.
I say no. Privacy.
Comments say they’re already basically public. I don’t know anything about that, but it’s probably better to merely have a camera in your toilet than have a camera in your toilet that livestreams 24/7.
But I don’t have an especially informed sense of how to run a platform so maybe there’s a bunch of crap I’m not thinking about.
Maybe a model where upvotes and downvotes can per instance be federated either publicly or aggregated? So an instance admin could choose to bundle together the vote totals and push them to other instances and it would just show the total number of votes on comments and posts by people on their server rather than the individuals. And if a federated server acts up and sends bad vote totals, the instance could be blocked for it as a trade off.
Nah I’ll fuck off.
For this user base it is the right answer. So many petty downvoters. On my site I’m considering a rule that would make it so you can’t be the vote that casts a comment into the negative without giving a reason, and then that reason would be turned into a comment. If something is worth downvoting then it is worth explaining why someone is wrong. If you can’t do that maybe you shouldn’t downvote. I don’t think you should have to do that every time. But if a comment is going to go negative someone should step up to the plate and bother to articulate. That way a comment can’t get hidden away from the public just because a petty mob that can’t even present an argument sees it as convenient if certain information disappears.
So in that case the downvoter who crossed it into the negative would not be anonymous.
Hard no from me
I don’t want some nutjob with too much time stalking me because I upvoted something about climate change or downvoted some bigoted shit. We all know those fuckos are out there
Voting on Reddit-like platforms is soft moderation by a community, and if you disincentive that, the whole model kinda falls apart IMO
I don’t want some nutjob with too much time stalking me because I upvoted something about climate change or downvoted some bigoted shit. We all know those fuckos are out there
I’m dealing with one right now! lol It’s crazy.
You don’t even have serial downvoters. You have a few comments without many downvotes. You just consistently post the worst possible political pisstakes repeatedly and constantly and nobody likes them when they run across it every time.
You just consistently post the worst possible political pisstakes repeatedly
Strange that you would say that. I haven’t posted any political articles to this community. This is the fediverse community.
nobody likes them when they run across it every time.
Really? So an article about a ninety year old woman, who finally graduates college, posted to my own sub, with 3 subscribers, and got 9 votes within a minute of posting is political? That doesn’t seem like a political “pisstake.”
Or 13 downvotes in my own educational sub about a college that gives out 3-year degrees. It has 2 subscribers in that sub. That doesn’t seem like a political “pisstake.”
Or 14 downvotes about a program serving underprivileged children and helping them go to college. and the downvotes were within 2 minutes of posting. To a sub that has 2 subscribers. That doesn’t seem like a political “pisstake.”
And since all my postings to a political sub are about third parties, from legit news orgs, seems kind of a stretch to call them “political pisstakes.”
But wait, I haven’t posted any of those articles to this community. So strange how you would know so much about what I post.
Of course, posting history is public. But I haven’t checked your post history, because I don’t care. Strange that you would check mine. And then not mention all of the non-political posts.
You know, what’s really weird too? I posted some articles to the c/science committee. And even some posters there commented on how strange it was that my posts were being downvoted so much and so fast, when the articles weren’t political at all.
Luckily the science people are cool, and the upvotes quickly outnumbered the downvotes.
But yeah, they were definitely curious about why so many downvotes so quickly on neutral science reporting.
But meh, probably just a coincidence.
I think maybe you are right. Because for sure there wouldn’t be an incel loser, who is so butthurt about my not voting for his candidate, that he’d follow me around. And downvote articles and take screenshots of how much I post, or set up alternate accounts just to engage with me after I blocked him.
That’s way too strange. There is no way a loser would be so pathetic to do that. All because he doesn’t like the Green Party.
So now that I’ve thought about it, I agree with you.
It would be just too crazy that an incel loser like that would follow me around. I mean, sure he can’t get a girlfriend, but hey, I’m sure he’s not THAT mad at the world. :)
Touch sum fucken grass dude
Or how about I use a forum that doesn’t have incels that get off on downvoting people. There is that.
That’s a lot of words man
Well it does take about 20 seconds to read, I so can understand your frustration.
Your votes are already public. It’s a matter of (a) do we want to make it slightly easier for the people who aren’t technically inclined to see them too (b) do we want people acting with the awareness that they’re public.
(a) doesn’t have a clear answer to me. The answer to (b), though, is clearly yes.
Your votes are already public.
People say this all the time, but it’s not really the case.
I don’t think privacy is a binary thing that one either has or does not - there are degrees of privacy. Currently what we have is mostly private, requiring either technical skill or admin access to circumvent. This is a pretty high bar which 99% of people would not be able to reach. You’re proposing removing the bar entirely because it is not high enough.
Currently what we have is mostly private, requiring either technical skill or admin access to circumvent. This is a pretty high bar which 99% of people would not be able to reach.
I’m down to work on an analyzer tool that would make it easier for everyone to see the votes
requiring either technical skill or admin access to circumvent.
What if some troll sets up a website that indexes/publishes this data? What technical skill would be required then?
The data is public and ignorance is not bliss. People need to be made aware of this. If this will lead to people being more careful about what they post online or how they interact with a public social media service, then all the better.
Your idea of a nice world and mine are very different.
Your world does not correspond to reality given that mbin already shows individual votes.
Head over to your comment on fedia.io and see who voted on your own comment.
Do you want to only vote on instances that defederate all mbin instances, and commit to keep doing so in the future?
Just because people can go out of their way to find this information, doesn’t mean we should remove all restrictions. That’s a real twisted way of thinking.
What we have in place is already egregious imo, and a major flaw with the system in place.
That isn’t really going out of your way, it is the base mode of how the fediverse works. Looking at something on a different instance.
Plenty of people just use mbin and see this, without any action at all.
The point is that as it stands right now, there are already basically no restrictions. The only thing perhaps missing is the knowledge that you can simply copy paste a link into fedia or another mbin instance to view upvotes.You can open an issue on mbin about it, to restore a semblance of restriction. But currently as it stands, all restrictions are about as fallen as they could be.
You can ofc argue that we shouldn’t open another equivalent hole in lemmys webui and api, so that you can in the future remove the ability from mbin.
I would in turn argue that this system has always been egregious, and that in the same sense as banning encryption you never hit those you want to hit using incomplete restrictions. Regular users are led to believe their votes are private, while the worst dataminers or trolls will always have their instances to query all of that info.
And how could you inform people that their votes are public without at the same time telling them how to get access to that info?If mbin removes the info, you will get another fediverse software showing it. You will get fediverse activity pub log info pages, specific vote info pages, it will never end.
Has reddit ever managed to kill the 200ᵗʰ removeddit clone?Please instead put your effort into changing the way lemmy federates, the only way to fix this is to make vote details private, between only a select few instances. An mbin dev in the other thread mentioned PeerTube as an example implementation where you could remove vote details like that.
Yeah, I do my best to avoid cliched references, but this is 100% a “blue pill/red pill” dilemma. The majority of people seem to prefer to live a comfortable lie than face the harsh truth.
They’d get defederated.
How do you know who you’re defederating with? When I set up my instance, the list of federated instances was thousands. How do you know which one is scraping the data?
- You don’t need to be federated to read people’s activities…
- Even if there was some type of “authorized fetch” involved, one could bypass it easily by writing a bot on LW to get the data. Then what?
It’s not quite that simple. As far as I’m aware, it’s difficult to fetch from another instance “after the fact” what all the votes are for a particular user or comment; you have to be signed up to receive updates on it, and then after the fact you can go hunting around in your own instance’s DB and see what all the votes were (or your UI can do it, if it’s supported).
But, yes, there are instance softwares that will do it, and no one’s defederating from every one of those instances (nor I think should they). Someone posted a link to an mbin instance breaking down the votes for this post. Votes are not private.
I ran
curl "https://mbin.grits.dev/u/mozz/outbox?page=1" -H 'accept: application/activity+json'and I could see your outbox. Apparently mbin does not put Like/Dislike activities in there, only your comments/posts/notes.In a world where ActivityPub is only used in server-to-server, this would be fine. If we ever get to a (IMNSHO, better) scenario where we have more clients talking AP directly, then this will not work, and mbin will have to add those as well.
All of this to say:
- the debate about “what Lemmy devs are doing” vs “what mbin is doing” vs “what PieFed is doing” should be seen as tremendous conflict with the idea that “The good thing about the Fediverse is that we can all talk with each other, regardless of where we are”.
- There is no sane way to square this peg into a round hole. Privacy and “Social Media” are inherently incompatible. The advice about not putting anything online that you are not willing to ever be made public is evergreen, and anyone that does not follow it will eventually have to learn it the hard way.
Ok, yeah, theoretically.
But we’re talking about putting voting info into the UI for anyone to see. Not highly motivated and skilled bad actors.
It’s in the mbin ui already
And the “we should not make it available for the public at large because it will lead to abuse” is also theoretical.
Anyway, I’m already on record saying that I don’t like the voting system and that we should get rid of it altogether. Voting on content used to be about collective curation, not a constant popularity contest.
I’m also on record saying that we need to stop relying on systems that only give us the illusion of privacy and depend on the software developers for culture shaping.
If making the vote public gets people to be exposed to these fundamental issues of the current design, and leads us to search for better solutions, then I’m all for it.
deleted by creator
How is the data public? I’m asking in the most technical sense?
This informs an issue I’ve had lately with a group of three people or bots following along my comment chain (All my comments, for a while, were dropping consistently to -2 score in all contexts).
It’s my understanding that votes are not public. Am I wrong?
All votes are public, they’re literally broadcast to the Fediverse writ large. You vote on something on your server, your server then tells the server owning the thing you voted on and that server then tells anyone who is interested (subscribers on other servers). That way everyone knows that this comment was voted on, but that information is indelibly tied to you - an entity on the Fediverse.
Lemmy devs just chose not to a) show that information in a UI (plenty of other software out there does) and b) not inform people that was the case. Which leads to the whole point of the thread, hiding this from users merely gives a false sense of security.
Every comment/post/vote made in a community is sent as an activity to the community’s subscribers.
Admin access means nothing if you can set up your own instance in an afternoon, federate with everything, then get all the votes copied to your database. I have done this just to prove it could be done, btw.
People say this all the time, but it’s not really the case.
Except that it is, people with the skills already bridged that gap for everyone.
https://kbin.earth/m/fediverse@lemmy.world/t/267356/Lemmy-devs-are-considering-making-all-votes-public-have-your/favourites
Hmmm I see a bunch of my friends have not upvoted my post. I will contact them to ask why not and ensure that they do.
Yeah, just like rglullis actually dragged downvoters into the public on a few occasions, to pressure them to explain their downvotes.
Ach, well, a known method to create a nice discussion
Technical people can struggle when a choice isn’t a zero or a one.
You say that, but you simply have to be using something that isn’t Lemmy and that information is there (doubly so if you’re an admin on any of these systems)
piefed is already extremely redditty maintaining behind-the-scenes ‘karma’ and ‘attitude’ for users whether they signed up for it or not. why shouldn’t this info be public instead of in the hands of admins only?
https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/
People who downvote more than upvote tend to be the ones who get in fights a lot and say snarky, inflammatory and negative things.
Summed up my whole sense of humor in half a throwaway sentence ;-)
Seriously though, interesting read, thank you kux… you can really feel the author’s frustration and yet I can’t help but feel that they are interested in a certain kind of idealistic online community. Reddit but with a really restrictive HOA where everyone has the exact same color mailbox.
the author almost certainly has more experience in managing online communities than me (i have none) but it seems counterintuitive to see a dumb take, downvote and bother to leave an argumentative reply rather than just downvote and scroll past. downvotes in this case would defuse potential arguments rather than start them, but i’ll defer to the author and assume that’s not what happens
That was my take on it too. The vague sense that you’re just going to end up with nothing but circle-jerks if you implement all these suggestions. I could also just be whooshing an attempt a levity, something obvious to a seasoned community moderator.
Hopefully my shitty attempts at socratic method rate a bit better then trolling, but I often doubt it :-)
Oof, I’d rather just stick to Lemmy and let people see my votes rather than deal with karma.
that’s kind of the point, other instances are already aggregating and rating your votes given and received, why shouldn’t lemmy show this to you?
I liked it being relatively obfuscated. Even though I rarely downvote. But the ones I do are the ones I’d like to avoid. Tbh I’m more ambivalent compared to my thoughts on karma.
You’re proposing removing the bar entirely because it is not high enough.
Incorrect. I said that I see no obvious answer as to whether to remove the bar – that’s the (a) part. What I’m proposing to do is definitely to educate people about the existence of the bar and the fact that they shouldn’t be voting on porn, or contentious political topics from an account with their real name, or etc etc like that.
More than 1% of the currently active Lemmy users are actively running a server (it’s 1.4%, 649 active instances out of 45k MAU), so I think the number is definitely less than 99% of people who wouldn’t know how to do it in the first place (or find an mbin or Friendica server or etc).
The broader point about it being fairly difficult / fairly rare to have the knowledge, I can agree with, but I wasn’t saying necessarily that we should make it easier for the 98.6% of people to do; just that everyone should be aware that it’s possible so they can make their voting decisions with that knowledge in mind.
I agree with the general point that privacy isn’t a binary thing, but I don’t think the bar is nearly so high, as it simply takes opening the post in the right kbin(/mbin?) instance. This requires neither technical skill nor admin privileges.
My votes on piefed are not public. This dev took the obvious idea of a dedicated voting agent and implemented it in about 48 hours.
I would like a (c) where my instances collects all the votes on the post, and then transmits an anonymized aggregate.
That would require a major change to the ActivityPub standard, which is not easy or trivial. This is at worst infeasible to impossible, at best something that is 5+ years away.
This is not true, the piefed admin implemented pseudonymous voting agents in around 48 hours
Piefed’s experimental mechanism isn’t truly anonymous. For instance I’m pretty sure you’re the downvote from PieFed on my comment.
You can still figure out who is behind votes by examining the proxy voting actors and their voting patterns. But it’s probably close enough.
If you wanted to share only an aggregate with other instances, that would require activitypub changes.
I didn’t downvote you, but I also use the term pseudonymous for a reason
But if you use that term, don’t say what I said isn’t true.
Interesting that you said you didn’t downvote me and then the downvote from PieFed I saw just before is gone hehe
(b) will just lead to fewer up and down votes, i.e. less engagement. That in turn could lead to slowly bleeding out.
It’s already public, it’s just lemmy users who don’t see them.
I don’t want some nutjob with too much time stalking me because I upvoted something about climate change or downvoted some bigoted shit.
They can read your comment history why would you care about them being able to see what you upvoted?
Voting on Reddit-like platforms is soft moderation by a community, and if you disincentive that,
How does that disincentive it? It actually makes it better
Isn’t the obvious thing to just have it be an option that admins can enable or disable? Maybe have a third option for only showing upvotes? Then it’s up to each instance to decide, and users can decide to go to instances with the option their prefer.
If they’re a serial downvoter, then it’s easier for you to track them and block them as well. Double edged sword i think
That’s why I’d like it.
So to catch a single “serial downvoter” you’d open up all your voting to vote stalkers? If it’s a single person, honestly why does it matter?
It doesn’t REALLY matter. More of a thing where it would be fun to catch him since he’s really obsessed with me. But meh, in the end, doesn’t matter. And I blocked him, so…
Actually what’s the case with vote stalker? I haven’t seen them anywhere and i don’t know what’s so bad till have to hold off a feature just because of them.
Would be the people that would go through your vote history and then grief you based on it. Kinda like people that sift through people’s comment history to grief them, just now it wouldn’t allow any “anonymous” interaction with posts.
Ahh, i see.
I thought blocks were one way - you can’t see anything from the person you blocked, but they can still see your stuff?
Hmm, i haven’t have experience with that, but even then you achieve your peace of mind and whatever they do means nothing.
I downvoted SO much more on Reddit than I do here. The comment quality here is leagues better.
Yep. Same for me.
What might be interesting would be to have it displayed, but grouped by instance. That way we could see some data and potentially uncover troll instances or attempts to brigade the conversation without opening ourselves up to personal attacks.
Mod-admins are already doing this, even if you vote and don’t comment on something.
I agree with you. I remember arguing about this a year ago when people first discovered votes were public on Kbin. I don’t want to obsess over who up- or downvoted me and I don’t want anyone else doing that either. Discussions are healthier when voting is anonymous (or at least obscured as is currently the case).
If bots become such an overwhelming problem that all regular users need access to voting records to better report all the bots I’ll maybe revisit my stance. But right now the gains seem dubious.
