“Google shouldn’t be allowed to operate as a loss leader” - Reddit and Lemmy
“Paying for the service? Fuck that” - Also lemmy and Reddit.
Why give money to YouTube when I can give it to my favorite creators, and the developers of the alt yt clients/mirrors I use?
Because you have not set up that agreement and the vast majority of people don’t pay outside of ads or a singular monthly sub.
The next best thing is nebula which has 600,000 monthly subs at $5. Which means a maximum payout pool of 18M a year.
Look at the number of users vs donations. The only reason this place works is low traffic and low bandwidth. The vision you describe would be great but it’s not going to happen. ESPECIALLY once users are forced to pay rather than getting shit for free.
You don’t need all, or even most users money. Plenty of people make enough money off of the portion of their fanbase that pays them to not only survive, but thrive and grow.
You don’t need all, or even most. You don’t need this to be the norm for it to be sustainable.
Oh right, in the magical world where people are giving their money away. The majority of content creators would of left your platform. But it’s okay it’s easy to steal their right to distribution and handwave it away as not a problem.
This isn’t some magical world, this is how most open source software projects and even online content creators make their money.
Creators make way fucking more from patron than AdSense, even if its only a percentage of their audience. Do you know how much fucking watch time it would take to match the $5 a month I give to several of my favorite producers of online video?
A lot more than either your or I have time for, certainly more than the content they create.
You need only a sliver of your audience to pay, and platforms like patron prove this works.
The fact you’re baffled by even a small percentage of people donating to gratis projects says a lot about how you value volunteer labor, and its pretty fucking sad.
The large majority of open source tools that are used in mass have significant commercial backing.
Yes many users could make more money from patron only. Very few do in the tall world. Their primary source of income is YT. Because people don’t use the patrons.
What are you fucking on about lmao? Most channels that run a patreon, use it as their main source of income unless they also sell merch.
Everyone from giant channels like Linus Media Group, to medium and small-sized ones like Technology Connections, and Cathode Ray Dude.
I mean pretty much everyone I watch that has talked financials has mentioned how important patron is.
Some of them like Botgrinder literally for the most part, only make money through patreon because of YT’s restrictive demonetization guidelines. Yet despite the lack of ad-revenue the guy is able to live off of a 50k sub channel where he pretty much smokes weed and flies FPV quads.
As for FLOSS, that heavily depends the projects. Huge ones used by corporations sure, but who’s footing the bill for newpipe, Yt-dlp, Jellyfin, Pihole, And pretty much every video game emulator ever written? People like you (probably not considering your attitude), and me.
Amazing. As if these communities are made with thousands of people having different opinions.
And here’s mine: since Google used their position to essentially destroy any competition in this area, why should be my duty to protect their revenue? Even if I can afford to pay their services, I won’t and will actively discourage anyone else from doing so, by installing uBlock, ReVanced, NewPipe, SmartTube, GrayJay etc.
You can have a diverse community that has a large majority opinion. And what I said is certainly the prevailing opinion.
And to answer you about your personal view: You are stealing the right to distribution and taking money away from both corporations but more importantly creators. And I’ve seen the rates of direct donations eg patrons . It’s not ideological for most people, it’s about getting content for free.
Are you donating to every channel you are watching? I doubt it. Even the people who care mostly only donate directly to one of two top patrons, while still consuming many many more.
If you are actually donating, then good for you, I congratulate you for living what you preach and have zero qualms. But you would be a statistical edge case.
It’s not your duty at all but it’s funny when you guys bitch about it with such fervor. It comes off as incredibly entitled.
That doesn’t sound like it’s an incredibly difficult problem to solve from a technical standpoint, if the creator is the one being hit. Just need either a software package – or, if the limitation here is content creator bandwidth, service – that pushes a video to multiple streaming video providers.
Might be an issue for third-parties creating mirrors of YouTube content, though.
Yep thats whats happening here by the sound of it. TILVids is a very small instance that shares donated $$ with their creators. Its a very good way to try and keep creators on the platform.
What are some good larger/general purpose peer tube instances? Last time I checked tilvids was one of the largest I found, so I seem to have missed a lot.
Heres some options:
https://fedidb.org/software/peertube (some are NSFW/very little moderation).
I like maker-y or general kind of instances like:
Hope that helps!
Are there any clients that support multiple instances? It would improve my feed if I would see content from several instances at once.
They all do, but if im honest, I subscribe using mastodon to have a peertube “List”.
This is what it looks like:
Interesting. Gotta try that.
I have P2Play installed. It only supports 1 instance at a time. 🤷
Hmm. Per Facebook v. Power Ventures, it could be a (criminal) violation of the CFAA to “circumvent” IP blocks.
Is this the reason why SmartTubeNext keeps breaking on my TV? The updates come pretty quickly but it’s getting annoying cause my $1800 OLED has the processing power of a $50 Chinese Android phone and thus takes forever to install updates.
It really is maddening how slow these expensive ass smart TVs are. Updating the software at all is often enough to make them nearly unusable
Not to mention the hilariously tiny storage space. My TV came out in 2022, and has 8 freaking gigabytes of storage space. That’s right, eight. Before I removed all the pre-installed bloat with ADB, it barely had enough space left to install one app fresh out of the box. It’s like these smart TV manufacturers expect people to only use the built-in apps and nothing else ever.
50$ Chinese android phone is faster tho
It’s about time we try to de-google.
All of us together!
I agree. But to be very honest, de-googling is very important but not always very easy. So I did personally move away already from Gmail. I also now host my own Nextcloud instance, which I use for my agenda as well as contacts. Meaning I also don’t sync or store contacts or anything in Google. I don’t use any cloud services for storage either, again Nextcloud (self hosted) solved that for me.
Then I was never using ChromeOS, so that helps, I’m only using Linux. However, I do have an Android device. It’s really hard to get rid of that, maybe a custom ROM, is that valid? Anyhow, and last but not least Google search, Google images, Google maps, etc. I don’t want to go from Google Search to another big Microsoft corp, so moving to Bing is a no go. That also means all those meta search engines is also not a good alternative, which includes: DuckDuckGo, ecosia and alike… Qitchain, presearch or Yacy isn’t working for me either. It’s just not good enough.
Thus finding a good search alternative is hard! I’m actually considering as a software engineer to build my own.
YouTube and my existing Gmail is the only thing tying me back. And the occasional Google maps. I don’t even use the rest of their services anymore
THat sounds great! Gmail can be easily replaced, by like Proton mail or something… Youtube is also very hard… It’s a vicious circle, “Youtubers” try to host their content elsewhere but nobody is looking. While some users also want to get rid of the youtube platform, but since most people are still and keep watching on YouTube, the content creators keep uploading there…
I need a YouTube mirror on the darknet so I don’t reach them directly
It’s still youtube… And if you talk about Tor, the Tor network is not gonna like this kind of traffic. Video streams are too heavy for the Tor network. Maybe I2Pnet… But again, it’s still Google YouTube.
You’re right. This kind of thing is best done on I2P. It’ll be PeerTube just with ripped videos from YouTube lol
Gmail can be easily replaced, by like Proton mail or something
Except for the fact that you’ll need to update your email address in so many places.
If you do move to a different provider, make sure you use your own domain. It’s way more professional, and it lets you move to a different provider in the future without having to change your email address again. I’ve had one of my email addresses for a bit over 20 years across a bunch of different providers.
The paid version of Protonmail lets you have up to 3 custom domains. MXRoute and FastMail let you use your own domain too. MXRoute supports unlimited domains and addresses; you’re just limited by total disk space.
If the email address is important to you, it’s better to use a paid service since it’ll usually give you proper support and an SLA.
Except for the fact that you’ll need to update your email address in so many places.
Which is actually a good thing. Might sound scarry and counterintuitive at first, but is the right way to go.
Especially with a custom domain, (can be smth cheap for 2 bucks a year) and using aliases for all the different places… like onlyfans@mydomain com… this prevents other malicious services from sending spam to your main email adress, since you can just delete the alias.
Which is actually a good thing. Might sound scarry and counterintuitive at first, but is the right way to go.
My point was more that if you do change email address, you should change to your own domain, since then you won’t have to change it again in the future :)
using aliases for all the different places…
Yeah this is great. I use a catchall email so anything @ my domain goes to me.
catchall
yeah… me too… thankfully no one tried to bruteforce, at least not for now 😅
+1 for MXroute. I have unlimited domains with 25GB of storage for $30 every 3 years. So less than a dollar per month. Looks like they are still offering it. It’s more than enough for email especially considering the Gmail account I used for 15 years was under 5GB.
I switched to them at the beginning of the year so about 9 months ago and have not had any issues.
MXroute are great. I switched to self-hosting my email server using Mailcow a few years ago, but still use MXroute for outbound email (meaning my SMTP server relays outbound email via MXroute). They’ve got deliverability figured out and have several fallbacks - I think if all of their outbound servers fail to send the email, they retry via Mailbaby and Mailchannels.
Agreed, if you can effort is, buy a domain and use it for email. I also have melroy at melroy dot o r g. However, I still redirect my mail, since I don’t like paying for services haha. That being said, I’m planning to setup my own mail server (I finally now have the infrastructure at home and static IP, needed for this).
Anyhow, DNS also needs to be replaced by something better.
Forwarding is a decent approach too. Just note that it’s not 100% reliable (due to limitations around spam filtering) and you will sometimes have emails that get dropped.
yeah I know… It’s not ideal. I don’t recommend it.
And Waze :(
highly reccomend Grayjay and Freetube. Futo claims to be foss but it is only source viewable (my apologies having a brain fart and cannot remember the actual term.) which to my knowledge means you can see the source code but not redistribute it. They ask for a one time $10 payment but the app functions the exact same with or without payment. Grayjay does not have a desktop application but they are looking for someone with experience to develop one. Freetube is open source and contains extra addons like de arrow and watching from invidious instances along with a desktop and mobile application. It’s UI is less appealing than Grayjay ( at least personally) but it’s the only way I watch youtube on PC now and I use Grayjay on mobile. Both of these contain sponsorblock too! ;)
If you watch YouTube on an android TV you can sideload smart tube TV, which is ad free as well. While I personally don’t reccomend it you can sign in with your yt account on both grayjay and smart tube to impket subscriptions.
If you are looking for a solution for YouTube TV… Well… You may need to sail the 7 seas and live with not watching live (unless others have a solution for this.
Fuck Google.
What I want is a platform on I2P which has a collection of residential proxies to connect and scrape YouTube. I guess that’ll work for Invidious too, but I just really like the idea of a huge community staying and interacting in I2P which will help its adoption (of course, the service must be P2P and not relay video directly like Invidious does now)
- gmail you can forward all mail to another account.
- Youtube, you could try following your subscriptions via RSS/ATOM feed reader. It’s honestly just like regular YT but without the recommendation engine.
The point is not to use Gmail at all, and forwarding it isn’t likely to help (this is in important places like work)
It’s about the YouTube platform. For the most part I don’t pay attention to the recommendations
I’ve been slowly working on it for the last year or so. It’s gone a lot smoother than I thought it would.
This sux big time, been using grayjay and it seems to be working alright thus far
That’s because it’s all local to your device.
get newpipe and ublock origin if you want to screw with google:
Alt nominations:
Grayjay (Android)
Freetube (PC)
This can be problematic for Peertube’s adoption.
If user only uses Peertube to upload, they likely wouldn’t notice a thing from this, but if it’s a creator from Youtube that’s trying to upload to multiple platforms this can cause major problems for ease of use and since the Peertube user base is small to begin with, this can potentially damage Peertube in the long run.
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The other day someone on lemmy kept trying to tell me that if google wanted to shut down ad blocking they would. But they don’t, so it’s ok.
Lol, spawn me that person plz.
AdBlocking is 100% OK, that part is correct for sure. Ad networks (including Google’s) routinely serve up scams and malware: It is foolish not to use a browser with a fully functional ad blocker at this point (i.e. avoid Chrome, use Firefox with uBlock origin).
As for whether Google approves: Fuck Google! They have been serving up malware and scams in their ads. Their opinion should be irrelevant if you have any interest in protecting yourself, they have repeatedly proven they cannot and should not be trusted.
If Google takes money to host an ad that’s malware, they should be able to be prosecuted for it.
This is different than simply hosting community content that they can’t reasonably moderate. They’re being given money to distribute these ads, so they can afford to moderate them.
Which should be easy anyway. Ads shouldn’t be able to install third-party shit from the advertisers on user computers. Google can easily restrict what can be included on an ad package.
Yes at this point why would any person would care what Google thinks? Google can go fuck themselves.
We need to slowdown YouTube and get an alternative that is viable for people and creators. The problem in this case is creators and brands, almost no creators would continue doing videos if there’s no money at the end
Russia did it recently
😂
VK Video is indeed probably close to it, being a quasi state company. Theoretically they can not maximize profit extraction in all spaces, and keep the videos without unlimited propaganda. But Rutube is a profit-seeking company that is just smaller scale youtube. Let’s see how the 1st will evolve over time.
Something community owned and a non-profit would be good.
They’re already halfway there /s
Right, but again the problem is creators
We probably need to have some kind of business that links up people looking for ads with in video monetization. Of course sponsor block Will negate that to some decent extent.
The other problem is storage and bandwidth.
The solution is decentralization of the web
So now the problem is sharing your IP with every member of the P2P swarm.
Not really because sharing an IP is nothing that important
Not if it used Veiled
The problem with money being involved is it’s an invitation to spam crap everywhere.
One of my relatives has recently taken up “AI travel videos” and “AI cute videos” as a “hobby”. No doubt based on the first thing that came up when I searched for those things, a video titled “make $10,000 a month spamming up YouTube with your AI slop”.
Oh, and it needs you to buy the AI slop generating tools that they happen to sell. How convenient!
I mean, this also happened with broadcast TV, where we suddenly went from like 4 channels filled with programs and things competing for space, to 200 channels, where the rush was on to fill the gaps between the adverts as cheaply as possible with reality show tat. And that’s all YouTube is now.
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Nah a little alt right content is entirely too much.
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See that’s the cute thing.They can have their free speech right there, but freedom also means the for most people obvious choice not to associate with nazis and other similiar troglodytes.
And as you said yourself, it already seems to be a popular hole for said miscreants, so why even bother with it.
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free speech is important
Sure, but that doesn’t mean that one should willfully fraternize with idiots lol Troglodytes should be shunned, nothing wrong about that.
It’s subscription based, but Nebula is creator owned I believe. Sucks though that everything free gets acquired by some extractive company.
There is the PeerTube network, which works like Lemmy.
This is one the best YouTube alternative but needs to be adopt massively
Start using it and ask content creators to also put their content on there.
I took full advantage of invidious while it was still working, now I am anxious of ever going back to YouTube. It won’t be long before they requiring giving them your iris scan before watching a video on that shit platform.
I’ve seen the effects on invidious these past days. 8 in 10 instances have been broken. Google is putting some serious work into shutting alternate frontends down. Shows you how much of a dent they’re putting in the bottom line.
Shows you how much of a dent they’re putting in the bottom line.
Or how desperate google execs are to get even the tiniest bump in revenue.
LINE MUST GO UP AT ALL TIMES
I remember Hooktube. That was when front ends were still trying to play nice by accessing youtube the “right way”.
They killed that one off pretty hastily.
Invidious was the hero successor, but I think we all knew that it would eventually come to this. Invidious’ most recent fixes for blocking involve passing identity tokens, making a concession that Google is then better able to track users behind Invidious.
I’m not sure how much farther there is left to go on the technical angle of this fight.
hopefully they come up with a workaround.
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Invidious and YouTube piped (and LibreTube) by default load the videos server-side, as opposed to GrayJay, NewPipe or Smarttube.
It has advantages (mostly that your IP address is not shared with YouTube, and it allows users from countries where YouTube is blocked to still access it) and inconvenients (much harder to keep up when YouTube actively seeks to block them).
Invidious shares your IP with google, it does not act as a proxy
I guess this reply lost its “by default” part on the way 🤔
I’m pretty confident that you are wrong.
Fair enough, that’s interesting. I assume this only applies to the non-web clients. On the web, it would not be possible. You can verify by looking at the outgoing network requests on this random video for example: https://invidious.privacyredirect.com/watch?v=qKMcKQCQxxI
On the web, it would not be possible.
Why not?
I doubt it’s denting the bottom* line as much as the recent court rulings. And I doubt it’s as much paying bills as it is paying vested interests.
I’m honestly surprised peertube has lasted as long as it has as it is
It still lasts because there’s no easy way YT can offer their own content without the video being available as a file stream (through CDNs at googlevideos subdomains). If they centralize everything to a single, controlled domain (so to allow things as one-time HTTPS request, better session checking and so on), they’d lost the capability of load balancing allowed by the decentralized nature of CDNs. YouTube downloaders (and, by extension, third-party YT frontends such as Invidious) exploit this CDN aspect to download the videos.
It’s common to see Invidious instances momentarily blocked. The blockage can’t last forever for two reasons: firstly, IPs (especially IPv4) changes due to how ISPs offer IPv4 addresses through CGNAT, so the instance IPv4 (generally domestic servers) will eventually change (often to a completely different IPv4 range) and YouTube won’t know that the new IP is a former “offender”. Secondly, as IPv4s works through CGNAT, Google can’t keep the bans forever because this IPv4 will be eventually rotated to another client from ISP that’s completely unrelated and unaware of how their IPv4 was a former address for a downloader. It’s like how Signal/WhatsApp/Telegram/Facebook/phone-required services can’t really keep a permanent ban for a specific prepaid number (especially on countries like Brazil, where ANATEL allows for phone number rotation when the mobile plan is cancelled), because the number will be potentially owned by another person with nothing to do with the former owner.
So, in summary, Google can either end with YouTube CDNs (ditching their load balancing), or they can try to implement an innovative way to keep load balancing while serving the request one-time only, or they won’t be able to do nothing but to perpetually catch themselves drying ice cubes.
Maybe a stupid question, but how do paid streaming services avoid that issue?
Not the OP, and I don’t actually know, but paid streaming services differ from YouTube in that everyone who accesses the content is paying for the service. On one hand, you can validate that everytime a video is served, it’s served to a paying user. On the other, you are receiving revenue directly from consumers to fund the infrastructure to store and serve the videos.
YouTube, on the other hand, stores significantly more content, for free, and can be accessed for free, without being signed in.
The “without being signed in” part of YouTube is now no longer completely true. I tried to watch a video tutorial at work the other day and it wouldn’t play because I wasn’t signed in and so “they couldn’t be sure I wasn’t a bot”. I’m not signing into any personal stuff on my work computer, or wasting time creating a “work” Google account, so I guess YT can no longer be a place where I can get helpful programming info.
That might have been because of your IT team. You can absolutely watch YouTube videos without being signed in. I do it all the time.
YT likely recognized the IP as belonging to a commercial entity and threw up the block, due to bot concerns, over that .
Possibly yeah
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The financial insensitive to ensure only paying users can access the content offsets the cost of the different infrastructure.
YouTube needs to make money as cheaply as possible. They can’t afford the processing to guarantee ad delivery and secure content like that.
If the infrastructure/delivery cost of securing content goes up, streaming services can raise their prices.
YT can’t really serve more ads. The platform is already pretty packed with adsYT can’t really serve more ads
They say to hold their beer and watch this…
I guess they have no decentralized CDNs as YouTube does, but… paid streaming services still have their weaknesses (there certainly are tools that fetches content from there because of, e.g: entire Netflix movies/series became torrents without screen recording).
I’ve noticed a few people on Reddit taking about getting possibly shadow banned on YouTube, myself included. With no real explanation why? Every video just comes up as “content not available” when logged in. It started a week ago or so. I wonder if this is all related?
