With membership at new lows and no electoral wins to their name, it’s time for the Greens to ditch the malignant narcissist who’s presided over its decline.

“With membership at new lows and no electoral wins to their name, it’s time for the Greens to ditch the malignant narcissist who’s presided over its decline.”

  • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
    329·
    2 months ago

    And Stein’s answer every single time this comes up?

    “What about Gaza?”

    She is literally an operative for Russia and the Republicans. This isn’t even a meme or conspiracy theory, it’s simply a plain truth.

    • ZMoney@lemmy.world
      712·
      2 months ago

      I don’t understand how a genocide can be taken so lightly. Some people have trouble casting a vote for any political party that sponsors one.

      • zbyte64@awful.systems
        82·
        2 months ago

        I support the college protestors even when people say they’re hurting the cause, but I would say Jill Stein definitely hurts the cause.

        • ZMoney@lemmy.world
          412·
          2 months ago

          I think you’re suggesting Trump would be worse than Harris for the cause. But my point is that a lot of people feel that voting for either is sanctioning genocide, and Stein fills that niche by condemning it. It’s pretty low-hanging fruit for a politician.

          I’m legitimately curious as to how college protestors could be hurting the cause.

      • lengau@midwest.socialEnglish
        41·
        2 months ago

        I’ve given more details elsewhere, but the short version:

        We can classify US presidential votes into three categories:

        1. Vote for the Democrat
        2. Vote for the Republican
        3. Vote third-party/independent or don’t vote

        The most effective vote to make on an anti-genocide platform is #1.

        Voting for a Republican is voting for a party that appears to be profoundly okay with the genocide in Gaza AND wants to start some genocides of their own (e.g. against trans folks, immigrants and racial minorities). This is the most pro-genocide vote.

        Voting for a Democrat is voting for a party that has a fairly significant group that opposes the genocide, and which appears to be movable on the topic.

        Any other vote is roughly equivalent to not voting. On the presidental front, there is no chance in this election that anyone other than a candidate from one of the main two parties is elected, and that’s also true for most senate or house races. (Possibly all, but I don’t want to make that strong claim since I haven’t actually researched all the races.) Voting for a candidate who you know won’t win is explicitly choosing not to have a say between the tho feasible candidates.

        I do have one caveat though…

        If you live in West Virginia for example, it’s a bit more complex. There your choice is essentially “the Republican or not the Republican,” so third-party/independent moves into category 1. However, then I’d argue that voting for the Democrat for president may still be the preferable response because if the Republican wins the electoral college but, (as has happened in every presidential election since 1990 except 2004) the Democrat still wins the popular vote, it further delegitimises the Republican’s presidency and the electoral college.

        • irreticent@lemmy.world
          1·
          2 months ago

          Okay Mr better party choice. Here’s a scenario: You and your friends vote for Jill Stein over Kamala Harris. Now, Kamala Harris has something of a chance to get a ceasefire out of Israel and stop the killing she has stated that that is her goal. But she doesn’t get elected because you and your friends voted for Jill Stein. No, instead Donald Trump gets elected and he pumps the gas on the genocide in Gaza as he has stated several times that he absolutely will do. He pours every military asset we have into Israel and gives them carte blanche to wipe out everyone in Gaza. And then on top of that he pulls all of our aid out of Ukraine and Russia steamrolls over the ukrainians wiping them out.

          Now who supports genocide?

          I wonder what it was about your comment that made the mods remove it. I don’t see any rules broken.

          • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
            31·
            1 month ago

            I have since altered it to remove the offending remarks. Basically I called the person an idiot, but in some slightly stronger language. Unfortunately it doesn’t look like the mods care to restore the comment.

        • ZMoney@lemmy.world
          64·
          2 months ago

          The other thing I don’t understand is all the anger and vitriol from you guys. Everyone who lives in the US and contributes tax dollars to the federal government supports genocide. The US has been supporting Israel unconditionally for decades. Do you really think Kamala Harris is sincere about stopping this, given how Biden’s administration has handled the situation? Or any other Democrat or Republican since Carter?

          • drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world
            84·
            2 months ago

            They do more then what Trump does. Regardless by letting Tump win you are saying you are okay with the genocides going on in Ukraine. At least more might survive under Harris. Under Trump they will die too. And you will be every bit as guilty as anyone who voted for trump because you could not get over your ego and do the littlest fucking thing for your beliefs.

            Does anyone in the green party even have experience on the federal level?

            • ZMoney@lemmy.world
              46·
              2 months ago

              Again, not understanding where the anger is coming from. I’m not even supporting a specific candidate. I’m pointing out that 3d parties that take a stand against US imperialism will always have support, because neither major party can be trusted in this regard. And again, for some people, this is a line they won’t cross. I’ll stop now because clearly this is unproductive.

              • Socialist Mormon Satanist@lemmy.world
                112·
                2 months ago

                Amen, brother! I’m socialist and voting third party, and Lemmy practically hates me and insults me every day.

                Good so see someone else who is questioning the Duopoly. Stay strong, brother!

          • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
            43·
            2 months ago

            The US has been supporting Israel unconditionally for decades.

            Yes because support for Israel is a complicated issue. All of the middle east is a complicated issue. We were spurned on by guilt for allowing the Holocaust to happen and then groups like AIPAC have spent millions(probably billions at this point) to make lack of support for Israel be considered antisemitism. And both democrats and republicans are supported by not only large numbers of Jewish Americans who believe that whole heartedly but a huge number of non-Jewish people who’ve been convinced of it as well. So no candidate who opposes Israel directly can get elected, literally ever. Because literally millions of Americans will vote against them just for uttering even the slightest waiver of support for Israel. Meanwhile Arabs in the middle east have made themselves well hated by most Americans through acts of terror against us for the last 60 years. So a large plurality of otherwise liberal Americans don’t really care that Israel is wiping out Palestinians. Especially after Hamas gave Israel such a great excuse by attacking a bunch of innocent people at a rock concert and taking all those hostages.

            So yes. The Democrats are using kid gloves to try to put a stop to what Israel is doing in Gaza. Because if they didn’t, they would lose millions of votes of support. And since republicans don’t give a shit about genocide, they are more than happy to pay lip service to AIPAC and Israeli interests. Meanwhile Trump and his allies are drawing up their plans to literally end our own democracy should he get elected.

            But hey, you’re voting you conscience and choosing to toss your vote in the garbage by voting for the one candidate that opposes Israel. Cause she’s come out of hiding once again to stamp her name on a ballot and give you that peace of mind.

      • Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
        38·
        2 months ago

        Imagine being such a scumbag that you make fun of the Holocaust because you don’t like a country that didn’t exist in 1944. Or is it maybe the race of people you don’t like

        • SeattleRain@lemmy.worldEnglish
          75·
          2 months ago

          Right, making a joke about a past Holocaust is so much worse then implicitly endorsing one your own country is perpetrating right now.

            • SeattleRain@lemmy.worldEnglish
              14·
              2 months ago

              No this is about how your righteous indignation about the Jewish Holocaust is complete BS because you refuse to speak out against one your letting happen now. You would have been a coward then as you are now.

              • Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
                1·
                2 months ago

                Says the American, who has genocided half the world without an apology. Your people genocided mine and called us all sorts of names. Now you’ve moved on and want to take the moral high ground while there’s a line of bodies and blood behind you

                • SeattleRain@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  14·
                  2 months ago

                  I was against those genocides too. The Zionist brain is so diseased that they really believe they can justify genocide by saying “Not fair, you did it too!” Ahahahah

  • DTFpanda@lemmy.world
    618·
    2 months ago

    Shitlibs love to be parrots for the DNC, eating up whatever shit they spew out their asses to stay in power. Yeah, the green party and Stein are the baddies, not the genocidal, warmongering democrats who don’t give a shit about Americans 🙄

      • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
        41·
        2 months ago

        I’d love for this person to highlight even one thing outside of running for president every few years, that Jill Stein has done to forward climate activism or help stop the endless wars.

        • Gsus4@mander.xyz
          1·
          2 months ago

          So why do I have to read that on wikipedia instead of their website? Where is their green new deal plan, their manifesto? Varoufakis has been pushing one, this has been a thing in Europe for a long, long time.

    • Telorand@reddthat.com
      925·
      2 months ago

      Pretending they had a chance in a voting system that can barely support two parties was kinda pitiable. Until we have RCV for federal elections at a minimum, they will never have a shot.

      • Omega@lemmy.world
        151·
        2 months ago

        They have a shot, by joining the Democratic Party. The same way that progressives join liberals, make their voice heard, and let the voters decide.

        • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
          38·
          2 months ago

          Or, just here me out, the Democrats adopt ranked choice voting from the Green Party platform, ditch aid to Israel, and make Jill Stein obsolete. I know, I know, it’s crazy. But, it might just work.

          • Eldritch@lemmy.worldEnglish
            4·
            2 months ago

            Or just hear me out, the green party stops playing spoiler every 4 years. Proving that their platform is meaningless and empty. And instead focuses on running and recruiting for state and local legislature to actually pass ranked Choice voting. And where it makes sense, such as offices no Democrat is running for. Recruit and endorsed a candidate to run as the combined democrat/green party candidate. Instead of constantly splitting the vote helping conservatives and the bourgeoisie.

            • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
              13·
              2 months ago

              I guess we’re never getting ranked choice voting then. And the genocide will continue until morale improves, according to bourgeois liberals.

      • socsa@piefed.social
        22·
        2 months ago

        This is a little discussed problem with fptp (along with many others) it gives minor parties perverse incentive to play spoiler, which gives foreign actors an opportunity to find spoilers.

      • Asafum@feddit.nl
        501·
        2 months ago

        A-fucking-men.

        The Green Party should be the RCV party and that should be their main focus. After that then they and any other party would actually stand a chance. Republicans are actively banning RCV from being implemented and Democrats are slow walking it, but we need to keep pushing.

          • jj4211@lemmy.world
            52·
            2 months ago

            That’s all well and good, but useless in any federal race because the federal government does not dictate how the elections/voting are done.

            Brings it back around to if you care so damn much, then focus your resources on state governments.

            • blazera@lemmy.worldEnglish
              35·
              2 months ago

              You should reread the elections clause. Congress has authority to regulate elections

        • jj4211@lemmy.world
          8·
          2 months ago

          That would mean actually caring about running campaigns for state goverments. State governments are the ones that can (and in Alaska’s case have) implement RCV.

        • Telorand@reddthat.com
          20·
          2 months ago

          TBH, I don’t see it happening except organically from within the Democratic Party. If enough progressive Democrats get elected, I think it stands a chance to happen in our lifetimes.

          • blazera@lemmy.worldEnglish
            721·
            2 months ago

            Any democrat has a vested interest in first past the post continuing.

            • socsa@piefed.social
              26·
              2 months ago

              This is just not true. Places which are doing RCV are literally state at metro democratic strongholds. Democrats are literally the only ones pushing it.

            • explodicle@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              1·
              2 months ago

              Unless they gain more support from endorsing RCV than they would lose to third parties. They’re slowly bending to long term third party pressure.

              • blazera@lemmy.worldEnglish
                311·
                2 months ago

                Vested interest meaning it benefits them, i doubt you disagree with the current system of only two parties being considered for elections improves the odds of those two parties winning elections

                • jj4211@lemmy.world
                  4·
                  2 months ago

                  Actually, an RCV system may help the democrats, at least in the short term.

                  For the last couple of decades, the “spoiler” candidates generally take from the democrats more than the republicans. Last big spoiler third party that screwed the right was Perot that I remember. With RCV, then the ‘fringe’ votes can still be cast and democrats can work toward being the second choice of those hardliners. At least in the short term, it alleviates the need to actually compete for votes with candidates that are going to lose anyway.

                  Longer term, it may cause a viable third party or more to get some steam (attracting practical candidates that no longer see the need to be a D or R to get votes, the parties generally getting left alone by outside forces that find them not worth weaponizing), but I don’t think the politicians are too concerned on that long a time frame.

                • Telorand@reddthat.com
                  10·
                  2 months ago

                  What I disagree with is your implication that they will only ever act in their own interests. I do not know that to be true in the future (and neither do you), as not everyone is motivated by money or power. Enough politicians who see it as vital to the health of US democracy, and change will happen.

                  I’m not proposing that it will, only that it is far from a precluded possibility. As Boomers die out and retire, I have hope for the Millennials and Gen Zers who replace them.

  • Strike1@lemmy.world
    7·
    2 months ago

    “given that she herself has received tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from Google, Lockheed Martin, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, and McKinsey.” I don’t see this information on the FEC website. Can anybody actually find this information? I sort this page by Amount, and it doesn’t list these companies. It lists people:

    https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/?data_type=processed&committee_id=C00505800&committee_id=C00581199&two_year_transaction_period=2016

  • SeattleRain@lemmy.worldEnglish
    212·
    2 months ago

    Trump is gunna win and it will be your fault libs. Just like the first time. You ain’t going to be able to spin your way out of this.

  • RalphFurley@lemmy.world
    753·
    2 months ago

    They never organize, canvass, campaign… they never put in the work. It’s easy to sit on Twitter all day and disparage the Democratic Party (yes they have many flaws as well) and nothing else.

    They’re lazy grifters.

    What exactly did Jill Stein do with that $7 million for the recount? She was interviewed by Mehdi Hassan and he kept asking her why she won’t call out Putin when she has no problem calling out Bibi. Yes two things can be true at once. She just couldn’t explain why she refused to call Putin out on his war mongering and genocide.

      • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
        31·
        2 months ago

        No but you see she said he was only there for like 10 minutes and she never talked to him so it’s fine.

    • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
      261·
      2 months ago

      How does the Green Party suddenly get money around election time when they don’t do shit for the previous four years?

      People are asking.

      • corsicanguppy@lemmy.caEnglish
        6·
        2 months ago

        How does the Green Party suddenly get money around election time

        That’s - clearly - when they’re doing their best work for their supporter. You thought the ‘green’ wasn’t about greenbacks?

    • recapitated@lemmy.world
      1·
      2 months ago

      It’s true. Where the hell does the green party matter? I’m not saying this is how it should be, but it’s how it is.