Gotta keep it vague for privacy but the key details should be enough. We first met through a dating app. It didn’t work out. We remained friends. Became best friends. They fell on terribly hard times. They moved in with me. Sleeping on the couch was not good for the long term. We now share a bed, and eventually went halvesies on a new bigger one. We became very close over the past few years. I love my best friend. Sometimes do non intercourse sexish things but have no interest in a relationship. Hard times are likely to continue due to external problems that despite our best efforts, will not likely go away. I’d never kick them out, it would be on the level of hurting a puppy. What kind of monster would do that? I have been wanting a relationship but it would be awkward to have to explain all this to any new partners. I can’t even imagine how my friend would take it. I wouldn’t want to sacrifice our relationship just so I can start dating again. A room in the apartment is vacant now and they could move into that one but I dread broaching the topic to them. I don’t know how they’re going to react and no matter what happens I want to keep this person in my life. We’re getting older and there’s no guarantee that the “hard times” will go away. It might even last the rest of our lives. I don’t know what to do. I can’t face the reality that they might leave rather than watch me do my own thing. How do I have my cake and eat it too?
This reads as ar anxious attachment and underdeveloped boundaries.
Your needs and wants are valid OP. You deserve autonomy in your own life.
Your friend, intentionally or not, seems to be manipulating you and taking advantage, and you seem to be enabling that.
You should discuss having a partner with them, and what that would look like. They should work with you to promote your needs and wants and fulfillment. That’s what friends do.
Honestly was in a somewhat similar situation with my best friend. They would be the one in your shoes except I’m the one with the house. We aren’t sharing a bed or having “not quite sex” but we are close enough and do enough “dating” activities togeather that most people think we’re dating and a few people still insist that what we’re doing is dating even when we both tell them that we aren’t. Your relationship is a bit closer so that will make things sting a bit more.
The answer is to just talk to them. If you are comfortable enough to sleep with eachother then you should be comfortable enough to have difficult conversations. I would personally just start out by bringing up that you want to start dating again and ,while you don’t want to kick them out, sharing a bed isn’t going to work when you want to bring someone home.
It’s going to sting for them; it did for me when my friend started dating again even when I knew us dating wasn’t going to happen. But, if they care about being your friend then, they’ll get over it; I did. Your relationship with them will change but not necissarily for the worse. Honestly I’m closer with my friend than ever. We’ve gone from being close best friends to practically being siblings. Hell, I’m closer with them than I ever was with any of my actual family. Yes we both date other people but that doesn’t mean we both don’t still share everything. Don’t try to put the relationship in a box. Be open and honest then just see how it grows/changes. At the same time, every relationship has boundries, don’t be afraid to set some.
Someone will get hurt, there’s no avoiding that. But you should not sacrifice your own happiness for the sake of not hurting your friend. Sometimes we need to be a bit selfish in life.
This is already a relationship. A non-sexual one, but still. Even a very strong one.
In a relationship, when the two are on such different levels (as indicated somewhat as “hard times”), then a crisis is unavoidable, sooner or later.
You want to do your own thing. That is very OK and normal. Just be prepared that the way out is going to hurt, for a while.
I’ve been avoiding it because it will probably hurt us both but reading through these responses I am beginning to see that you’re right. Thanks for responding.
Yeah that’s not going to end well. You’re basically in a relationship.
Bit of a different take from many of the other comments.
Relationships don’t have to be the way they are traditionally. You don’t have to be monogamous. You can be in two relationships, one of which is romantic, one of which is a strong friendship with sexual aspects. It’d be under the polyamory umbrella. There’s plenty of potential partners out there who are ok with or would even want this kind of a constellation.
The very important caveat though: even more so than in any other kind of close relationship, this requires a LOT of communication. You need to clarify with your best friend what kind of a relationship it is that you have. You don’t have to label it, but you have to figure out together what you want from each other and what your boundaries are. The latter includes what kind of relationships you’re ok with the other one having with someone else. Then, when you date someone else, you have to have the same conversations and be open about your other relationship(s). I’d be upfront about the latter, the former can happen over time.
If none of this sounds like something you’d want, that’s of course perfectly valid. The point stands though that you need to clarify with each other what you want from your relationship and what your boundaries and needs are. This might mean having to change your relationship dynamic.
Some context: my best friend and I are super close and find each other sexually attractive, but aren’t romantically interested in each other. We’ve talked about that and keep checking in. We’ve done some second base things and cuddled. I now have a partner that’s decidedly monogamous. Now, I might still lightly cuddle with my best friend, but we wouldn’t kiss anymore. Those are all boundaries that had to be talked through.
That’s not something I was ever considering. I’m definitely monogamous, and attracted to the opposite gender yes. While I know I can still love my friend and have a romantic partner, I couldn’t still share a bed or cuddle without feeling like it was cheating. We’re going to have to create boundaries, it was hard for me to think about and will be difficult to implement but it’s the right thing to do. Thanks for the response.
It’s a good, important step that you know this about yourself. But yeah, for both of your long term happiness, as well as for your friendship, it’ll be very important to talk about the kind of relationship you have. Even if it’s super tough and mightn’t have the outcome you’d like. But the resentment it would inevitably breed if you couldn’t date because you don’t know where you stand with your friend wouldn’t be healthy for your friendship. Maybe it’s easier to not do it all at once?
Either way, your situation sounds tough. Best of luck to the both of you!
I can’t help but notice you didn’t say anything about how your potential new partner might feel about this. Perhaps you didn’t think it was relevant, but that’s a huge blind spot if you haven’t considered it.
Yeah, I’ve thought about it. Things would definitely have to change before I started dating. I think what I didn’t consider is how long it might take to make those changes. That I couldn’t just jump into it now that I’m feeling ready.
Where TF are these kids learning English these days? Nobody knows what “relationship” means. I’m in a relationship with my dad. The relation is that he’s my dad. I’m in a relationship with my employer. I trade service for income. I’m in a relationship with all of you who are reading this. Some of you might not consent, but you just don’t understand the gravity of the situation!
There’s people who don’t wanna put a label on things because the label comes with extra implications they don’t want others to assume, and there’s people who won’t even use the most vague and generic term “relationship” because they’re idiots. It’s the least descriptive term imaginable!
OP wants a cuck and being dodgy about gender just seems super sus.
OP wants a cuck and being dodgy about gender just seems super sus.
What does gender have to do with this? Also, where does OP mention wanting a cuckold situation? I’m getting a lot of Dr. Phil bullshit conservative vibes off your comment.
People who are so touchy about their language are hiding something more important or think they’re gonna win something if they present it just right. Gender is the touchy thing here apparently.
You didn’t read the part about wanting her current partner to watch? Try again. It’s there. I can screenshot and draw in red arrows, but I’m not gonna waste the time since you’re asking in bad faith to begin with.
No, please do screenshot it and draw in red arrows because even on the fifth read I’m not sure if the two of us have read the same post. I can’t find the passage you mention nor anything that hints at OP being female.
Edit: now that I’ve read it a sixth time… do you really mean the “I can’t face the reality that they might leave rather than watch me do my own thing.” sentence? If so, you seriously need to get your mind out of the gutter and check if you are the person who should check their reading comprehension skills. That sentence has nothing to do with cuckolding or voyeurism.
Who said female?
You did:
You didn’t read the part about wanting her current partner to watch?
Oh shit. Now I gotta sit here and wonder if that’s a Freudian slip.
Either that or you’re making assumptions about OP while repeatedly refusing to answer questions that challenge those assumptions and accusing people who ask those questions of making bad faith arguments. You see the problem, right?
I don’t even want to accuse you of doing that on purpose. Confronting and correcting your own assumptions is hard.
I agreed with you until the last paragraph.
K. Way to contribute.
And what contribution was your original comment making?
You don’t
You have lived with diffuse boundaries for some time and are now reaping the penalties. You can and should proceed with care and grace as you implement boundaries and define roles to move to where you want to be but it is absolutely foolish to think that it will not be at least a little hurtful to your pseudo partner.
they will implement their boundaries in response to changes you are proposing; you have to respect these. If they chose to leave and tell you to fuck off then you have learned a valuable lesson in why you shouldn’t let boundaries be so diffuse for so long through so many changing contexts.
It’s not realistic (usually) to expect you to know everything you need and want from a relationship up front but when contexts change you need to clarify what is and is not okay. If you’re okay with keeping it casual after things don’t work out that’s fine but make sure they’re aware. If they suddenly have to move in consider the boundaries of the situation again: are they still cool with keeping it casual? Are they now that you share a bed? Are they now that you’ve purchased a bed together?
If you’re the one that wants it casual and wants the door open for new relationships it’s your responsibility to make sure your partner is aware of where you stand. One could say your friend/partner is foolish for assuming you’ve changed where you stand, and they’d have a valid point, but one could also say that you’ve been very misleading here. Boundaries need to be enforced and they need to be occasionally reviewed as contexts change, otherwise they fade away
All very valid, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. I just feel terrible and upset about creating this situation. I, perhaps we, did let the lines blur, I don’t blame either one of us for it. Convenience and familiarity dropped our guard. We were there for each other when we needed it but in hindsight it was foolish to let things go past physical barriers or maybe even emotionally without considering the future. At the time they moved in it was supposed to be temporary, I did miss that detail in my post. That’s no longer the case but we never revisited the topic of where things stand. It’s obvious to me now that I must say something. Thanks for your response.
My only advice is to not try to avoid pain here.
Boundaries get blurred when we try to avoid causing short term pain.
You need to accept that this situation will involve pain to change. If you act out a policy of causing no pain, you will be stuck because every path out of this involves pain.
Life is messy and boundaries blur. Boundaries in relationships aren’t static things and can change. Just keep talking and it and it’s will be fine. You might not get exactly what you want but it will be better in the long run
GTFO
Chill, his best friend is Canadian. Butt stuff is just their way of being friendly.
I feel bad for your friend.
You seem to treat them as an object to serve your emotional needs and have created a situation where they are dependent on you.
They will probably agree to polyamory out of desperation but it will kill them inside, you aren’t doing them a favor.
Don’t you think that’s a bit harsh? OP wrote a single paragraph, that’s not enough for us to know how they interact on a daily basis. Creating the dependency doesn’t seem to have been on purpose. It happened, it created problems, probably for both of them and OP wants to find a solution that hurts their friend as little as possible. I find that highly commendable. Such situations happen, you only notice them when it’s too late and usually there is no good solution. You can’t just stop supporting them because that would cause serious problems for them but you can’t keep silent about your own needs either unless you want things to escalate somewhere down the road.
Now, the polyamory out of desperation thing is a real problem and I know many poly people (including myself) who have at some point suspected that their “original” partner has only accepted this lifestyle to avoid losing them. And let me tell you, finding that answer is hard. If you don’t ask, you might never know. If you ask once, you won’t be sure if they tell the truth or just want to protect your relationship. If you ask too often and they actually are okay with being poly, you may annoy them. The only way to resolve that is to make sure you can openly communicate about anything and everything. All involved parties must be comfortable telling each other about their pain points and be sure that a disagreement will only strengthen instead of weaken the relationship because everyone will try to find a good solution.
I can’t even imagine how my friend would take it.
OK, OK, time out. You haven’t tried talking with them about it? If you have as strong a mutual (platonic(ish?)) relationship with them as you say you do, then it should be able to survive a serious conversation about your shared future, especially if you emphasize that you want to try to keep them in your life in a major way like this.
That conversation will probably be hard, and I really can’t think of a solution that would feel perfect if I were in your shoes, but I would sure as hell rather have that conversation than the “I made a decision, and here is how you will be impacted” one, or the “I kept my life on hold because I was worried how you might react to talking about it” one.
I don’t know your personality or your friend’s personality, so I can’t promise that you will sort it all out without emotions running high, or what the ultimate outcome of such a conversation will be.
But jeez, bud, you’ve GOT to be able to have serious talks with people whom you trust and care about.
I guess I am a bit of a coward. I do appreciate the comment. It’s a good point.
You seem like a caring person, so perhaps this will help guide decision-making. When you make major decisions that deeply impact another person, or even just get real far in evaluating options and imagining outcomes, asking strangers, etc…when you do these things without communicating with the other person at all, the end result is you protecting yourself, not them. Even if it feels like you’re carefully considering their interests.
No matter your intentions, if you’re not communicating with them and letting them participate in big decisions that affect you both, you are not acting in their best interests. There are many times (like abuse) when that is 100% the right approach, but you need to be very clear eyed about that choice to remove the other person’s agency. The way you’re going about this protects you at their expense, and in this situation it sounds kind of cruel, rather than justified. I’m not judging you harshly, your intentions seem good, but you need to understand that this is not a loving way to treat an adult.
Your cowardice is likely the result of psychological trauma.
You need to think of this as an opportunity to heal some trauma, using this situation as the path into that healing.
My advice is get a good therapist. Preferably one who’s been practicing since the 1990s or earlier.
I can just confirm that. I was a coward once (see my other comment) and it made me miserable and cost me a 7 year relationship. I don’t exactly know if having the talk earlier would have saved the relationship but it would definitely have made the breakup less ugly.
As mentioned before you will need to have some direct conversations with your roommate / best friend. This might be awkward or strange but you can get through it and no matter what the outcome it will be better in the long run. When having these conversations start with saying “this might be awkward or weird”, since acknowledging this will remove most of the awkwardness.
First off you need to talk with them about wanting to try to date. Specify that you want them to stay living with you but there might be changes around the house and that you might be bringing people over when its that time. Be upfront about it and let them know. If you are both on the same page about not being in a “relationship” this should not be a problem. (Note: even friendship is a relationship so you two have a relationship just not a boyfriend/girlfriend romantic relationship). Lead with everything you said here “wouldn’t want to sacrifice our relationship just so I can start dating again.” is a great start.
When dating make sure to bring up this situation early and as a positive thing, since for the right person this is a huge green flag. In the first few dates when talking about your living situation mention you live with a person who you dated and hooked up with a few time but the romance fizzled and now you are close friends. This should be positive to show you treat your potential sexual/romantic partners as people not objects and will be a good way to weed out people who are too jealous of your situation. If someone doesn’t want to see you after this disclosure you don’t want to be with that person. Make sure any potential dates gets to meet your roommate early to see you can interact with opposite gender people as friends. (Note: I am assuming you are mixed genders since this is a complete non-issue in queer spaces). Hiding your roommate / best friend won’t help anyone.
As you get to know your dates longer once you get to the “relationship” and monogamy opt-in moment (3 to 6 months in) make sure you have an explicit conversation about it. What does this mean for you and them and what is and isn’t allowed. This might mean no more sexual situations with your roommate / best friend but might not. Same with cuddling and snuggling with your roommate / best friend. At this point any new “boyfriend / girlfriend” and roommate / best friend should know each other and can judge what that means to them.
This slightly more complicated to everyone else but not by much. Your situation isn’t anything crazy and shouldn’t be a deal breaker. Just talk about it. You got this!!!
Thank you, I appreciate it. I’m beginning to feel a little more confident. You brought up good points. I really wouldn’t want to be with someone who can’t accept we are pretty much a package deal even if I’m looking for a monogamous romantic partner. I do not and have not intend(ed) to continue any sexual stuff going forward (not that it’s often or anything) especially since this is how I feel. I was afraid to miss out on someone because of our complex relationship but my right person would be accepting.
I’m going to be honest. This will be a big hump to get over for most people. They have to be very trusting or vulnerable early in the relationship because this situation makes it very easy for you to cheat on them. Or your friend to get jealous and poison the well
Having mixed gendered friends isn’t that weird even those you might have hooked up with. What do you think highschool is?
Be honest and make sure the friend is on the same page.
Having mixed gender friends is not the issue. They sleep in the same bed and do sexual stuff together. OP said they are a package deal. OP said the roommate may not be able to move out.
This really isn’t that complex except it doesn’t fit the standard dominant heteronormative story for dating. Those stories where your eyes met across the bar and you fall in love with your new partner instantly. You either then stay together forever in the “success” story or fall apart in a dramatic fashion and never see each other again for a “failure” story. This isn’t common and real life is more messy for these “failures”. Just note that most people leave out the mess when telling their romantic “success” stories. I dated / hooked up with lots of my wives friends before we are started dating and so did she.
You had your best friend / roommate were / are a “failure” in this model but a success in real life. You made a real friendship out of failed dates and romantic relationship. That’s a success.
Just be upfront and honest with everyone. Make sure your roommate / best friend agrees that you don’t have a romantic future but rather what you currently have. Tell your future dates a simplified story about your roommate upfront and everyone will be cool. You got this
You don’t, I’m sorry. It sounds like the only scenario you’d be happy in is if your friend is happy to share you, although from the sounds of your story your friend wouldn’t be happy to share you. Which means one of you wants more in the relationship and haven’t cleared business about it. I would recommend you talk this with them. Maybe it can work between you two or maybe you realise your friend isn’t as dependent on you as you think. If they’re clinging to you but you want to move on please cut those strings, they only become more and more painful with time.
You need therapy to figure out why you’re placing the needs of other people ahead of your own.
Any advice is to hire a competent therapist. If you’re a man, I also advise joining a men’s group.
This kind of compulsion will fuck up your life if you don’t get it figured out.
non-intercourse sex things in bed with your best friend whom you’re keeping around for financial reasons: fuck you got some shit to figure out
Harsh delivery, but I’m inclined to agree.
I’m inclined to agree with the harsh delivery on this one
