How do I free my television?
In principle, yes, and I believe a few small hobby projects have attempted to do this and support specific TVs. However, interest in developing a custom Smart TV platform tends to get siphoned away into a project where the output from your actual platform is displayed on the TV rather than running directly on it. Simply, it’s easier to develop and maintain support across different models.
Why would you develop a custom TV OS that runs on one TV when you could develop it for any mini PC and immediately support all TVs? You’d have to develop your OS to run on each specific TV model which will make it quite hard to reach a critical mass sufficient to attract attention from developers and users alike.
The juice isn’t really worth the squeeze. It’s not like TV vendors are publishing detailed hardware specs and drivers. Writing or even porting an OS is hard. Look at the state of the Android ROM scene, and that’s about as good as it gets when some vendors are actually attempting to open source their drivers. The difficulty is much higher and the interest lower due to the existence of a viable alternative.
With that said, motivated minds have done it anyway. You just need to have the right TV for it.
This would be awesome, but something else I thought of would be DRM. If you don’t have the correct version (like Linux and a few android custom roms) then you would stream at really low quality. So if you even came up with a free smart tv os, it would lack quality streaming
It is still possible to buy “dumb” TV’s. Tons of businesses need them for display purposes (like at fast food restaurants and corporate expos, etc, etc), but you need to search for commercial displays. Like this one.
Bless you for providing a link; I can’t tell you howany times I’ve seen this advice without any link or instructions on how to locate these
No problem! I work in television/live streaming production. Finding and buying “dumb” monitors when we build out new sets and presentation spaces is literally part of my job.
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Day 1,826 of telling people they can buy a smart TV and just not connect it to the internet
You don’t need to spend $700 on a TV that doesn’t connect to the internet
Wait until you learn tvs can piggy back off other tvs that are connected to the internet.
Citation sorely needed
That’s not a citation silly, that’s a downvote. Don’t get mad at me because there aren’t actually any TVs doing this
I didnt downvote you.
I cant find definitive proof. But it hardly would suprise me with the shady shit samsung does.
Seriously, buy an AppleTV. It works standalone without the need for other apple products. Has a fast processor, ability to disable telemetry, good track record of software update support etc. and NO.ADS.IN.THE.OPERATING.SYSTEM.
Using an Android box will result in the same issues you’re trying to get away from with SmartTVs.
If you’re technically capable enough you can build your own HTPC, but due to DRM you’re going to run into issues streaming 4K content from streaming services. And PC and Linux HDR and Dolby Vision support is a rabbit hole.
Except you have needed to have an iPhone to use an Apple TV, and to get around it required a workaround that wasn’t disclosed. It’s happened before, it can happen again.
Apple also telemetries the hell out of your data. The best they offer against this is to prevent them from using it for “targeted” marketing, but that doesn’t really mean much as Apple clearly states:
We provide some non-personal data to our advertisers and strategic partners that work with Apple to provide our products and services, help Apple market to customers, and sell ads on Apple’s behalf to display on the App Store and Apple News and Stocks.
Seriously, this myth of “Apple = Privacy/no ads” needs to go away.
That’s the privacy policy for the AppleTV app. Here’s the specific information on AppleTV device settings:
https://support.apple.com/en-tm/guide/tv/atvb66239fa1/tvos
You can share analytics data with Apple or app developers in order to improve their software. Sharing this data is completely optional
The Apple TV runs the Apple TV app.
It’s not a hardware issue that tracks you, it’s every app baked into it which has its own privacy policies.
Yes. What brand or model number do you have?
I was thinking that if somebody knows how to do that, they probably also have an opinion on which brands of TV are better or worse for it.
I don’t own a TV right now but plan to in the future.
Ah, well, the biggest thing you have to worry about is that most vulnerabilities that would allow users to get ROOT access have been patched for old and new TVs, so you might want to be selective if you don’t want to do it the hard way. You need to know which TV OS you’re dealing with before you can look for the necesary tools.
The hard way is removing the SoC processor from the board, buying a custom mount for it, and using the debug pins to flash the OS. Most of the legwork has been done already for this method. https://www.synacktiv.com/en/publications/i-hack-u-boot
Something to keep in mind is that the processors in smart TVs are almost always pathetically slow. Also, the streaming services compatible with these TVs require hardware encryption so if your modified OS mimics the old one but isn’t verified then they will refuse to run. You would get better performance from using a computer connected to the HDMI port, or even a Raspberry Pi as your TV Box.
Replacing the OS completely is likely possible for every single TV on the market, but not very likely for any of them because nobody with the skills sees any value in it.
It should be a thing because most (all?) “smart TVs” run some variety of Linux, which, as Free Software, is supposed to guarantee the device owner’s right to modify the software running on the thing. However, in most (all?) cases, the practical ability to do that has been destroyed by subverting encryption functions against the owner in a process called Tivoization.
In other words:
- No, it isn’t really a thing,
- It’s wrong for it not to be a thing, and
- You should be pissed off about it.
Thanks for teaching me a new concept to be angry about, I guess.
I mean, they did it with phones too. Android is just Linux. That was one of the main attractions, for me at least.
At first, many people and groups supplied their own phone OSes. There was a whole thriving community ecosystem. Then they started to make it really hard, locking bootloaders and including critical pieces of hardware that didn’t or couldn’t have open source drivers (look up WinModems for a very early example of this technique, it remains really effective) or otherwise required extremely convoluted methods to access and the phone might function marginally without some of these fully functional, but at least you could still install a custom ROM on it if you were stubborn enough.
But even that wouldn’t last. Nowadays they’ve made it literally impossible to defeat the security on most phones, in the name of keeping hackers and criminals out, but really a big part of their motivation is blocking these pirate OSes that let you actually control the hardware and software in your phone, doing criminally nefarious things like stopping them from downloading ads (the horror!) and preventing them from funneling all your data and activities back to Big Brother (how rude!) and worst of all updating it with modern functionality after they’ve declared it “obsolete”. The goal going forward is to sell you things that you don’t and can’t control, so they can shut them down or make them gradually more and more useless and make you buy new ones forever. They want you to have a subscription for everything including physical objects without realizing that you’ve been forced to subscribe to their regularly-scheduled-disposable-device-replacement-plan for no actual reason.
They’re coming for computers too, or at least they’ll try. They want control of everything we interact with. For profit, mostly, but I wouldn’t rule out other motives. It’s a powerful thing when you have control of everything people see and do.
I could be wrong (I haven’t really paid attention lately), but I think the state of Linux on “smart” TVs is considerably more dire than the state of Android phones. At least with the latter, projects like LineageOS and GrapheneOS are a thing, whereas I know of zero third-party community firmware projects for TVs.
Oh absolutely. Smart TVs are completely under the control of the technology and media companies with very little hope for freeing them, except that you can still plug a computer into them to bypass all the “smart” features and just use it as a dumb screen with a smart computer instead. But they always seem to put a few new stumbling blocks in the way of both those options every year. That loophole will eventually get closed, it won’t happen overnight, but they will keep eroding the functionalities and convenience of doing so until few if anyone wants to do that anymore.
Cars are nearly a lost cause too, except where regulations say they must use some standard like OBD2 for “emissions reasons”, although that is obviously a limited scope and manufacturers try to find any ways they can to sabotage it or otherwise avoid it. Appliances and “smart homes”, all the way down to the light bulbs and LEDs, have plenty of proprietary, locked down, unrepairable technology in them too despite reliable open standards being available. The war for total control over our digital devices is in full swing and there’s no area of our lives from large to small that isn’t a battleground. People need to keep prioritizing the freedom of their devices because once they get these technologies and features entrenched it’s going to be very hard to work around them.
STOP IT!! I WAS ABOUT TO HAVE A GOOD DAY TODAY!!
Woah woah woah, slow down partner, you’re not done yet.
- you should absolutely make as much headway on this project as you can, then share the results so we can all benefit.
Count me in for #3.
It’s interesting to see some of the back-and-forth on this topic between different proponents of free software.
I listened to this talk by Linus Torvalds a while back and it relates to the GPL license used by the Linux kernel and why the kernel hasn’t changed to GPLv3. Apparently Linus doesn’t find this practice by Tivo and other hardware manufacturers to be an issue.
Yes, it’s a damn shame that Linus is weak on property rights.
Because that’s what this actually is, by the way: violating the device owner’s property rights in order to prioritize the manufacturer’s temporary monopoly privilege over the software – which was only created for the sole and express purpose “to promote the progress of science and the useful arts” in the first place – above them.
Linus is kinda infamous for being a dick.
That really doesn’t contribute anything to the merits of his remarks or not though.
I think he needs to work with HW manufacturers and chip designers/manufacturers to get drivers. They’re always going to have some proprietary HW and FW and communication protocols somewhere in their stuff. I think if he pisses them off too much he has to to bit-bash or reverse engineer all drivers for loads of stuff - which is never going to happen.
Linux would need overwhelming market share in the consumer end to force chip makers to play, whether they like it or not.
Windows might be finally doing a bad enough job again, to drive Linux adoption, but it’s hard to tell if that’s just Lemmy talking.
Linux doesnt “force” chip makers. It tries to collaborate , that’s the point of what Linus has been saying and doing for several years. I don’t know which market you’re talking about though, embedded - which is relevant here, or consumer PC. I don’t even think MS gives a shit about consumer PC, it’s worth next to nothing to anyone - maybe apple does.
Force is the wrong word, I meant more difficult to ignore.
The Free Software Foundation explicitly forbade tivoization in version 3 of the GNU General Public License. However, although version 3 has been adopted by many software projects, the authors of the Linux kernel have notably declined to move from version 2 to version 3.
How come Linux doesn’t use GPL v3?
Linux copyrights are owned by many different people, so it would be prohibitively difficult to ask every person to agree to a GPLv3 change. Even if you could, Linus Torvalds is not a fan of the v3 license.
Even if you could, Linus Torvalds is not a fan of the v3 license.
Why not?
It’s much easier to run a HTPC on something small like a Raspberry Pi, or an NVIDIA Shield. The hardware on your TV is probably the bare minimum to run its own smart features, and replacing the firmware doesn’t guarantee that the TV isn’t still phoning home with your data.
If you literally replaced the firmware, what else could possibly be phoning home?
The lower level firmware, your pc is probably doing the same
you can yes but it is hard
Install pi hole at home, force the TV to use that for dns, block some shit but not all, build on that, report back
There’s a whole lot of different smart TVs. If you want help, it would be useful to provide the brand of smart TVs as well as the operating system that it’s running.
I have another question.
Can we reprogramme the remote buttons that open Netflix, YouTube etc., so that they open other apps like Jellyfin or something?
you can! (at least on googles android tv, not sure about amazon’s bastardized version) I use an app called button remaster, available from the play store, to switch my chromecasts youtube button to smart tube and netflix button to stremio
I don’t know how remotes work, physically, but they gotta send some sort of code to the TV. If your TV’s OS can intercept that message it can choose its own response mapped to whatever you want to happen. Something akin to remapping keys in your keyboard.
I would assume, anyway. I could be wrong.
Those companies paid to have their buttons on the remote. Your TV manufacturer is not going to threaten their sponsorship deal by letting you use those buttons for anything else.
Get a dumb TV and plug in a cheap computer where you can pirate everything
I’m not sure they exist, but either way, just plug something in and don’t connect the TV itself to the internet.
Sceptre has some dumb TVs. You can also still get the display TVs that companies use. I’m drunk so I forget what they’re called.
Oh that’s a point, probably not cheap though, maybe not good for home cinema? Not heard of Sceptre, will check out. I’m happy just not connecting my TV mind you.
Sceptre is cheapo stuff. And at least one brand of smart TV is wardriving to find networks behind your back (again, drunk, I can’t remember which right now) and creating mesh networks with other TVs of the same type.
That is a pretty horrific thing. Policy is so far behind if that is allowed.
I must say, your typing is flawless for a drunk person.
Learned skill. I spend a lot of time drunk and Android tends to do a pretty good job of guessing what I’m swiping.
I also tend to reread what I wrote when I’m drunk. I actually generally do a worse job sober because I won’t double check my work.
And it was signage displays for the dumb TVs I was thinking of, and Sharp TVs used to have unsecured wireless networks that you couldn’t really turn off, so they’d make a mesh with other smart TVs. I believe I’ve heard the same thing about Samsung as well.
Now it’s time to go jog myself sick.
Cathode ray dude recently did a video on them
https://youtu.be/q9a3dCd1SQI
If it has an HDMI port, it can be a dumb TV. Just don’t connect it to wifi, easy
They simply don’t exist anymore. The only choice is to do this with a smart TV and never connect it to the internet.
That’s not true. I forget what the term is, but corporate displays are dead simple, no ads or bullshit. Think of something sold to a deli to display menu items. But be prepared: consumer TVs are so cheap partly because of the expected ad revenue, these will be more expensive. I’m about to buy my first TV upgrade in over a decade and I’m just going to never connect it to Wi-Fi. I might even disable the wireless adapter, we’ll see…
If the room is small enough room with the seating closet enough to the screen, a large computer monitor could do the job pretty well. You’d have to be fine with doing all input switching and audio control on a receiver or only ever use a single device as the input.
I’d think most people woud go for a cheap used ultra Small Form Factor pc or raspberry pi set up as an htpc. Plug in to either tv screen (via hdmi ) or monitor / projector directly. Never connect the tv to the internet - or even to your LAN if you’re really paranoid. You can arse around with a remote control a bit bodgy, or just use wireless Keyboard/mouse.
I cant imagine spending the time to jailbreak a tv to get less functionality for more hassle - but i’m sure some crazy will have done it - good luck finding them though.
Some TVs will connect to the internet anyway
How do they if you dont plug them in to the network, do they have cellular, or some sort of PLC? Can they hack WPA? maybe they’re more powerful than i’d creditt them for.
Cellular and your neighbors WiFi that was online without a password for about 3 minutes. It only takes a few seconds for them to dump all their stored history up to the mothership.
Its also common for a lot od ISPs to have a hidden SSID for their other customers, which you cannot disable. I wouldn’t be surprised if your neighbors TV will mesh share their WiFi to your TV so it can upload the data about you. That data is why they sold you that TV at a discount. They want it.
Technically yes, you’d have to find an exploit for your TV that allows for installing your own OS.
It’s not super feasible but it’s technically possible.
