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- world@lemmy.world
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Who had south Korea becoming a fascist state?
Do I hear bingo from the back?
The
rat racesquid game eventually ends, as it’s not sustainable.Who had south Korea becoming a fascist state?
I don’t read or speak Korean but maybe the president ran on making South Korea
GreatFascist Again? South Korea only democratized in 1987.I’ll be honest I had South Korean oligarch class does ridiculous cult shit and causes headlines. Does that count?
Close enough I will allow it 😁
That’s cool and all but when are they freeing my boy Johnny Somali?
Should… we be alarmed by this?
It’s not their first time descending into a dictatorship.
Not just yet. It sounds like it’s him against the rest of the government. Hopefully he can be removed swiftly.
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Is Martial law ever declared in a non-corrupt, power-grabbing way?
Canada invoked the Emergencies Act in 2022 when the national capital was occupied by a convoy of antivaxers who shut down the city for days. There was some debate as to whether it was necessary and there was an inquiry afterward. The main reason for invoking it was to allow the federal government to use law enforcement since the Ottawa municipal police mostly sat on its hands during the whole debacle.
Also in Canada, the War Measures Act was used during the FLQ Crisis in 1970. While some may disagree with using martial law, I don’t think many would say it was used in a corrupt, power-grabbing way.
As a Canadian, I can assure you everyone on the right considered it a corrupt, powergrab. Whether or not you agree is of course up to you, but it’s not a clear sky case
but they’ll say that no matter what won’t they? Like the only way to convince the right something is not a powergrab is to let them have their way.
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Of course everyone on the right didn’t like it, because “Fuck Trudeau” is the extent of their political understanding. It was overkill in hindsight, but in the moment, with the capital paralyzed and armed terrorists in Coutts, some benefit of the doubt must be given.
Occasionally in response to things like floods and other disasters. Though then it’s usually local and short lived.
In response to full civil war rebellion. This is not that.
After reading the article it definitely sounds like power-grabbing, but I don’t know much about the Korean Democratic Party so I’m not sure
I read he is blocking the National Assembly building to avoid the martial law being lifted; both parties, including his, will vote to lift it should they get inside
Seems sketchy.
I think the only time martial law can be seen as reasonable is in an outright state of war. And even then, only when it’s existential.
It’s kind of inherently the antithesis of democratic values.
Strictly speaking, the war with the North never formally ended, but that’s a whole problem in itself.
I’m sure this will just be a misunderstanding that will be cleared up in no time. Let me know when that happens.
… I’ll be in my bunker.
world users not beating accussations of never reading linked article
Woosh
Yoon cited a motion by the country’s opposition Democratic Party, which has a majority in parliament, this week to impeach some of the country’s top prosecutors and its rejection of a government budget proposal.
Imagine declaring martial law, and these were the only concrete reasons you could come up with.
Donald Trump: hold my steak.
Hamberder
Hamberder
And covfefe
I declare forest law the king of iron fist tournament
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Just watched the chilling footage of Hussein’s power grab the other day and this looks oddly familiar.
Yup the south is totally a democracy guys. It’s those northern communists that are pillaging out happiness. Pay no mind to the capitalist hellscape it’s actually communisms fault. Oh you don’t agree we’ll time to declare martial law. Democratically
Watch the rest of South Korea’s politicians swiftly depose Yoon for this absolute fuckery (edit: to clarify, even his own party is lambasting this as unconstitutional). I’ve never seen a change in leadership, meanwhile, as North Korea has spent at minimum the last 35 years under a dictator imposing martial law in the form of Songun, spending 25% of their budget on the military while millions of their people have starved to death.
Piss off with this disgusting, tankie bullshit.
Edit: Two hours after the declaration, their parliament has voted 190–0 to end martial law. Totally North Korea, guys.
I didn’t say north Korea was good but ok.
I was making fun of Yoon’s reasoning here where he literally blamed communists for pillaging happiness from the south. I guess that’s not allowed without also condemning north Korea?
So do you condemn North Korea’s use of martial law? It seems oddly coincidental that your comment sounds so much like typical “actually, South Korea are the bad guys; North Korea true, prosperous Korea” fare and that you only protest my comment after this coup attempt was shut down by the National Assembly.
Well if you’re still paying attention it doesn’t seem so over yet what with the attempted arrest of political opposition. We’ll see how it plays out. Hopefully peacefully.
South Korea are the bad guys. Well not THE bad guys. Just some bad guys. Like their government is famously corrupt and rather recently a dictatorship as well. North Korea martial law is also bad but not directly pertinent to this news story. Odd that whenever something bad happen in the south you feel you must jump up and shout that the north is worse.
Not directly pertinent
You literally started this comment chain by drawing a comparison of Yoon’s actions you were condemning to those of North Korea. You made it pertinent. Interesting trying to both-sides North and South Korea, though. Modern ROK and modern DPRK are definitely both very comparably bad. Yep.
I was mocking the words Yoon said himself that blamed the communists for having to do this. So I suppose pertinent if you want to take what he says at face value and believe he did this because of the commies pillaging the happiness of the south. I wouldn’t believe him if I where you but you do what you like.
Since I do not believe him and instead believe that he is lying and wants to maintain power for himself the conditions in North Korea do not actually pertain to whether or not Yoon’s declaration of martial law has merit.
It’s bad to declare martial law. It’s funny to blame your fascistic actions on commies. It’s weird to insist that we have to talk about North Korea before we can say Yoon is being ridiculous.
I agree that the ROK and DPRK are largely incomparable.
Do you agree that Yoon is ridiculous for blaming commies in the north or do you think that actually is relevant to his reasoning?
Yup, Yoon’s stated reasoning was a ridiculous pretext to justify a military coup and evade accountability, and he should be ousted immediately and thrown in jail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_South_Korea
You’ve never seen a change in leadership? They’ve changed presidents and parties fairly regularly…
My comment is referring to North Korea’s leadership. Technically I’ve seen Kim Il Sung –> Kim Jong Il –> Kim Jong Un, but I don’t consider that “new leadership”, because it isn’t; it’s the same line of a hereditary dictatorship.
Oh, I see. Yeah, that’s accurate.
Edit: Two hours after the declaration, their parliament has voted 190–0 to end martial law. Totally North Korea, guys.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cn38321180et?post=asset%3Acb5be5ba-c24f-462c-be58-5fa0b8de3dcc#post
Military says martial law will be maintained until lifted by presidentpublished at 12:23 12:23
The South Korean military says it will maintain martial law until it is lifted by President Yoon Suk Yeol, despite the nation’s parliament voting to block its enforcement, according to the country’s national broadcaster.
Totally normal democracy stuff here guys. Yoon’s also in lame duck period too.
Let’s see how enforceable that declaration actually is with the law itself, the National Assembly, the cabinet whose backs Yoon went behind to pull this stunt, and at least 2/3 of the population who already disapproved of him before this opposing it.
I’d be willing to bet their president does not have direct control over payroll for their military. That tends to put a stop to things pretty damn quick.
We really are in WW3 we just haven’t noticed it fully yet.
I can’t remember when I came to the realization, but for years now I thought that if (and I would love to hold on to the naive hope that it is an “if”) WW3 breaks out then the battle lines would be drawn between the forces of autocracy and democracy. Those would be our sides.
Now, I’m not even sure democracy is gonna make it out the gate… America’s elected a dictator who’s aligned with Russia who is itself a major factor of this unholy autocratic alliance with China, North Korea, and Iran… Now this?
There were no “good guys” in world war 1. It was the result of squabbleing European powers not realizing the destructive potential modern military technology had and how much that changed the game. It needed to happen in the sense that countries couldn’t continue to act the way they had prior to the great war, but that doesn’t mean anyone was in the right.
It’s hard to imagine “good guys” in world war 3 either. Increasingly, it kinda just seems like it’s a choice between “what shit flavor of authoritarianism do you hate less?”. Assuming that question even matters considered all the nuclear weapons that could fly in a third world war.
I dunno man, shit’s just looking pretty fucking bleak.
The US was late to WW1 and WW2. Trump wants to go 3 for 3.
Given Trump’s tendencies, I’m not sure I want us jumping in right away. He’d probably pick the worse side.
Oh the break up of America is scheduled for any WW3 under Trump. He absolutely could not keep this country together in such extremes.
He’d probably pick the worse side.
No doubt about it. He obviously love Putin and Kim, and for all of his “Chayna” bullshit, he loves Xi too.
He takes the side of oppressive regimes 10/10 times. Because he loves power and dominating people who are superior to him in every way.
We’re nearly at the end of the" Lead up to World War Three" chapter.
Yup.
“Rising economic and social tensions in the West” heading on wikipedia
We are still mostly in the stage where it might be diplomatically avoided, but if it does start, yes, this will have been a small part of the start of it. Like the last couple of decades to varying degrees at various points. It’s still potentially avoidable, but honestly, in some places, it feels like it has already been going for a long time. Currently, they don’t count as part of a world war, but if a world war breaks out, they will then retroactively count as part of it. If everything settles down before getting to that point, then these will have been individual events that were largely connected to a similar crisis.
It’s not like anyone knew at the time what day world war 1 and 2 started on the days we now consider them to have officially started. For world war 1, there was really no precedent. So they certainly would have had no idea on the day we consider it to have started. Used to take months to even find out 2 other countries were at war, let alone the time it took to them react to that information and muster up support or further opposition. World wars only really became possible once world-wide near instantaneous communication was available. I’m not sure how long it even took to coin the phrase “world war”, but they figured that would be the only time something like that would ever happen, considering not only the cost/rammifications, but how widespread word of how bad it was could be with such quick communication.
No one would soon forget the various costs… but then we had a source of motivation that outgrew those costs. So world war 2. At least we knew what to call it this time. People were probably a bit less fuzzy on the day it officially started, but a lot of that would have to do with what country they lived in. And it still eventually mostly had to be hammered out by historians to really figure out what all should be considered part of it.
So, it’s still a bit schroedinger’s WW3, all these events are in the box waiting to see what they will eventually be called once it’s time to examine the contents of the box.
Not a good look, and I have a hard time seeing the people of South Korea accept this and just rolling over. Ugh.
But the military seems to be going along with it, blocking out legislators (even from Yoon’s own party).
And, uh, the precedent for that isn’t good, even if a majority dont support it.
What about all the US troops stationed there?
I hate to make the jump, but… Is this because of the US election? Is Yoon thinking Trump will be friendly to a dictatorship? I can’t imagine Harris letting this slide, and Biden had a month and tends to be conservative in responses anyway.
The universe does not revolve around trump. Korea seems to have it’s own asshole.
Indeed, I meant to say I hate to sound so american centric.
But I thought US bases were pretty essential to SK’s security against NK?
Claiming that South Korean politics are subordinate to American politics isn’t exactly unfair…
To this day, the US maintains a military presence on the DMZ, the zone separating the borders of the two countries. Twice a year, they conduct a mock invasion of the north with the ROK Army. The Republic of Korea’s army is copied from the US structure and was created by the US military occupation: they have four-star generals, they have a Joint Chiefs of Staff of the Republic of Korea (versus a Joints Chiefs of Staff of the United States of America). It shouldn’t come as a surprise: their military was created wholepiece in 1945 by the US presence in Korea. The South Korean equivalent of the CIA was named, you guessed it, the KCIA (now the National Intelligence Service).
More notably, ROK Forces obey the US officers present in Korea through the CFC, the Combined Forces Command. This is the only country in the world which is under this arrangement. While the CFC has changed its mandate a little bit in the past few years, it still states that in case of war involving the Republic of Korea, the US Army will take over command of the Korean forces. A state that has no agency over its military cannot be said to be a sovereign state.
in case of war involving the Republic of Korea, the US Army will take over command of the Korean forces
Uhh, might wanna rethink that one once Trump’s in power…
Hi Jeena, long time no see 👋
It certainly isn’t because of Trump, but Yoon is really well known for the same sort of behavior. Covering up investigations, implementing reactionary (but overall pointless) policies, suing media for defamation, denying the existence of sexism, and all the other good stuff.
What about them? They were there while South Korea was a dictatorship, weren’t they?
can’t they have a no-confidence vote?
He’s using the military to block legislators from making any vote to end this
It’s honestly insane that these sorts of technicalities are even possible to block the vote. “I called dictatorshipsies and you weren’t in the parliament building when you clearly, overwhelmingly said ‘no’, so I guess no takesies backsies.” There probably ought to be some sort of provision in Korean law going forward that if it isn’t possible to enter the parliament building, they can hold the vote elsewhere.
Worth noting is that the unanimous vote includes members of the president’s party (as far as I can see from skimming headlines. They’re dropping fast…)
Yonhap news agency cited the military as saying activities by parliament and political parties would be banned, and that media and publishers would be under the control of the martial law command.
i see now, article was updated
He’s president, not prime minister. Removing him would require an impeachment, which usually has a higher barrier then a no confidence vote, though I’m not familiar with Korean government.
ok but PPP with 108 seats out of 300 somehow forms government, and not DPK with 170
Yoon cited a motion by the country’s opposition Democratic Party, which has a majority in parliament
hol up, just how this happens
The president and the government seems to have a longer mandate than the individual representatives.
They lost the last election, hard, so this is a lame duck government.
Yoon cited a motion by the country’s opposition Democratic Party, which has a majority in parliament, this week to impeach some of the country’s top prosecutors and its rejection of a government budget proposal.
They declared martial law over a budget proposal??
Yes. This possibility has been discussed for months now. Yoon framed the cuts to his proposed budget as an “act of sympathy to the North” in his speech.
Going full fascist to enforce austerity.
Maybe, keep in mind that reporting is going off the information they have. It might be deeper than that. Only time will tell.
I’ve got to start reading Korean news
So, the following is a genuine question and not a snide remark.
Does that matter? Is the military going to respect that? I’d heard prior to this that the military had forbade parliament from gathering. What’s to say they don’t just side with Yoon?Certainly wouldn’t be the first time in history that a nation’s military has dictated the corse of the nation’s civil future. I really hate asking questions like this but I’m just not familiar enough with the politics of South Korea to know if this a done and dusted thing or if the military is likely to go for a coup if Yoon pitches it.
Apparently, yes, they respected it.
EDIT: Aaand they’re not gone.
God, I was just breathing a sigh of relief till this poped up a moment later.
The South Korean military says it will maintain martial law until it is lifted by President Yoon Suk Yeol, despite the nation’s parliament voting to block its enforcement, according to the country’s national broadcaster.
Hope that’s just postureing.
Hopefully half heartedly because I just found a live feed of people in the streets in Seoul. So they aren’t exactly enforcing martial law yet.
Ooh, not great. Preview of the US in January? Except for the blocking part, that’d never happen.
Nah, even if evidence appeared at this stage showing the election was interfered with here, the damage is done, there would be no attempt to keep office. The S.C. would rule the period for recounting the votes has passed, precedent being 2000 Florida.
True, but I was referring to when Trump declares martial law, as he said he would. There will be no opposition from his own party as there was here.
Who’s not gone, the military or the representatives
Military. They said they’re not leaving until the president stops declaring martial law.
Well then democracy has fallen in that country. That blows
Not just yet, but it’s dangerously close.
Hopefully they’re not actually doing anything though, just standing around until it’s resolved.
That’s how it seems so far. Hoping this doesn’t end badly for South Korea. The last thing we need is another dictatorship in the world.
Who is “the military”?
My god they are so efficient. Whole thing lasted like 3 hours
Under martial law parliament is suspended so the vote was symbolic
Not exactly, under the constitution if the parliament votes to suspend martial law the president must end it. A constitutional crisis is brewing
Technically it might be, but all political power stems from the people agreeing to be governed. If they aren’t represented, they won’t agree to be governed for long.
Basically, the parliament can’t afford to let itself be suspended. It’s needed because the president is going to get dismissed after this kind of behaviour.
Don’t hold you breath…
From BBC:
The South Korean military says it will maintain martial law until it is lifted by President Yoon Suk Yeol, despite the nation’s parliament voting to block its enforcement, according to the country’s national broadcaster.
Oh that’s very not good
planet earth turns into a freaking ice ball after exchanging the sun for a blank hole
Yeah this is 100% a power grab. AFAIK there’s nothing going on right now in SK at a national level that could possibly justify the declaration of martial law countrywide.
As far as I understand, the president’s decision might be void, since he was required to hold a session of the government before declaring martial law, but did not.
I predict that the military will consult their lawyers and stop enforcing it really soon.
I suspect the president either went insane or attempted some kind of a coup. His own party voting against his decision is a clear signal that it’s a solo performance. He has no political backing.
I suspect his presidency isn’t much longer for this world.
I mean… if the military is behind the president (and it sounds like they just might be), this is just the beginning phase of a coup, wherein their legislature is taken out behind the shed.
This is hours old, I think there might be a couple generals for sure, but the rest of the military is playing catch up. We’ll see how those chips fell tomorrow morning most likely.
Judging by the unanimous decision of the parliament, the majority of soldiers will have no interest in going forward with a coup. A minority could have interest, but would soon notice they’re a minority.
A clean vote, that’s good.
