But F the poor I guess

  • fu@libranet.deOP
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    1 year ago

    @Ronno the problem is making the natural human right of migration illegal in the first place.

        • Banana@feddit.it
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          1 year ago

          Then that mean you don’t have enough geopolitical knowledge and if you want get an more advanced opinions about that subject you should not only read and learn about humanitary knowledge (all live matter) but also those who don’t have the same opinion. I hope you will be able to understand and not be someone who is unable to understand because most people’s prefer get use to general opinion and what the media tell them (manipulate) to think with the objective to separate them in order to manipulate them more simply.

          Edit : it’s literally the case in every nation.

          • fu@libranet.deOP
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            1 year ago

            @Ronno @Banana this sounds very similar to “who will pick the cotton?” that was “just asking questions” as to why slavery should remain legal in the southern united states in the 19th century. It’s the right thing to do. One’s individual rights does not force obligations on the other. A freed market would provide.

            • Ronno@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              IMO, those are very different situations, with slavery their freedom was taken. Most of the migrants (not refugees) are free, they are simply in search for a better life. Which is understandable, don’t get me wrong. But the picture that is painted is too bright, people hop on a boat to “paradise” and are promised a life of riches. The reality is, this is not the situation they will find themselves in. Even if we were to allow them into the country, they would still live poor lives. Sure some will succeed, but most of them don’t have the foundational knowledge/skills/command of the language of the country to get a job and find a place to live.

              Meanwhile, looking at my own country The Netherlands, we see that natives are also struggling for housing. My generation is basically fucked, young families cannot buy nor rent a home to start their family in. This will impact The Netherlands for years/decades to come, it will be reflected in birth rate and future workforce. Allowing other people in the country now would be catastrophic.

              On the other hand, recently there was an article about an approach by French farmers which I like. They sourced Moroccan workers, that could work in France for a couple months (IIRC max stay was 3 months), during this time, the workers would receive fair pay. After the work permit ends, the workers have to go back to Morocco. Then they are only allowed to go back to work in France after a period of time, with a new workers permit.

              The key benefit is that workers bring the money back home, benefitting Morocco financially, and France with workforce. Most of this work by the farmers is seasonal anyway.

        • usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          … Of course it is? We have things like taxation and social safety nets that allow a society to function. Never mind the simple fact that some places are stressed for resources as it is. That’s not to say it can’t be done better, but it’s naive to think it’s “simple”. Never mind that simple doesn’t necessarily mean easy…

            • usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca
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              1 year ago

              I’m having a difficult time thinking of any form of society where people don’t pool at least some portion of their surplus to help the group as a whole (and lift those up who have a deficit). Are you saying that shouldn’t be a thing?

    • gun@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      How are you going to continue to enforce gun control in your country if there are zero borders?

      • fu@libranet.deOP
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        1 year ago

        @gun open migration doesn’t require the elimination of borders. There is a border between Germany & France, but that doesn’t mean they have to stop people from crossing it. It still exists, laws are different, etc.

        • gun@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          If you don’t stop people from crossing it, how do you check what they are carrying? How do you prevent guns from moving across a border in that case?

        • gun@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Right, but if you want to stop school shootings with gun control and are also left wing enough to want zero borders, how will gun control be possible if crazies can just go and get their guns from places where its legal to get them. Am I fascist for pointing out an obvious contradiction?

            • gun@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              I did. It’s just a random example to argue what @Banana@feddit.it was saying about reality being more complicated.

      • fu@libranet.deOP
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        1 year ago

        @gun i don’t enforce gun control laws now. As far as those that do…well…ACAB.