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Whoever you are, by whatever name/gender. You are worth it.
Joining a wholesome community and downvote Posts. Cool.
Bigots that deserve bans. Technically we could see who downvoted, is one of the “problems” with Lemmy…
Just out of curiosity, how do you go about seeing who downvoted what? It would make a nice block list.
It’s not direct, Lemmy doesn’t reveal these itself, but votes being federated to Mbin are exposed because that software shows them. So you’d have to use an account over there, joinmbin.org … for technical details, see github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/4967
While we are at it, if you wanted to make your votes privates, join piefed.social ;)
The fascists want you to disappear. Never give the fascists what they want.
They don’t. Deep down, no one wants to lose their scapegoat. They need an enemy. If trans people went away, fascists would have to find some other harmless, vulnerable, terribly frightening class of people to replace them. Or more likely, if they all disappeared, they would SUPPOSE THE EXISTENCE of trans people, and continue to demonize them.
I’m all for people making their own choices. But teaching children about sexuality is wrong, let alone assuming a child has the mind to transition their gender. This is sick in the head.
“If someone touches you where your bathing suit covers, that is bad and you need to tell people about it” is teaching children about sexuality.
So that’s what you think is wrong.
To be fair that is only one (but a very important) part of it.
Sure. It was one of many examples I could have given, but that is one of the first ones kids are, and always should be, taught.
Fuck off
Those are unrelated, fuckwit
Teaching kids about sex and sexuality is the opposite of wrong. Teaching kids their body parts, and why and how they are private makes it harder for them to be exploited, assaulted and raped. Teaching them about sexuality, at an age appropriate time lets them know that puberty is fucking weird, and hard, and not everything fits into 2 nice little neat boxes. It teaches them, that yes they ARE normal and not freaks.
Did you not know you were straight as a kid? I remember being VERY aware of girls starting in like third grade.
Did you not get boners? Did you not have the Internet?
Don’t you know the difference between sexual orientation and gender?
Shhh, I’m meeting them at their level
But they’re not transitioning at that age. It’s puberty blockers used to delay permanent changes to their body. Puberty blockers have been used for decades and there’s plenty of research and evidence around to show that there’s no harm in delaying puberty.
On the contrary, there is lots of evidence to show that forcing children who identify as trans to go through puberty is traumatic and can lead to suicide. Forcing trans children to go through that is, in my opinion, sick in the head.
Wouldn’t you want to do what’s best for your child no matter who they are? Children are people too and it’s worth listening to what they say, especially if they’re voicing distress.
Passing knowledge is never wrong, in my opinion, and it’s never wrong to defer to someone more knowledgeable if you don’t know what the answer is.
I would highly suggest that you speak to your local trans community to understand what ‘teaching children about sexuality’ means to them and how it affected them, to get a better understanding.
Sexuality and gender expression are unrelated.
You have fundamental misunderstandings that you should educate yourself about before commenting again.
I won’t reply further to you, so please dont bother.
I agree. Children are very impressionable and there are bad actors who will try to convince them that it’s better to be trans.
If you can accept the reality of gender dysphoria, then it is reasonable to address how that condition is best treated. The consequences of not treating can be lethal via suicide so this is not an idle question. If transitioning makes the difference between life or death (or chronic substantial depression) then arguably encouraging this affected people to “be trans” is the right thing to do. Sorry if it hurts your feeling but that’s the reality of it.
What about those that kill themselves after transitioning because they regret it?
Sorry if it hurts your feeling but that’s the reality of it.
My feelings are fine, but I think you’re ignoring the part of reality that goes against your agenda.
Please show your home work.
https://www.newsweek.com/what-data-shows-about-transgender-detransition-regret-1807448
While, since you looooove semantics so much, I’m sure it happens that some people coming suicide after transitioning it is, to my understanding FAR less than the baseline, also you need to show that suicide is the result of transitioning, and not anti trans people bullying and harassing them, for the crime of being who they are.
So… what about those that kill themselves after transitioning because they regret it?
Are you trying to argue they don’t matter because they’re a minority?
Re read what I wrote please. Also don’t straw man, show your homework. C’mon do better.
what about those that kill themselves after transitioning because they regret it?
You’re never going to answer this because you know it defeats your argument.
I’ll just take this as your surrender and we can move on with our lives.
You may have the last word, I can tell you’re desperate for it.
I agree, there are tons of bad actors out there. I can’t believe how much time and money is invested into brainwashing children into thinking that men and women marrying is normal. I still don’t understand straight relationships, which one is the woman and which one is the other woman?
And you guys wonder why people don’t take you seriously.
/s right? Because that doesn’t happen. But I mean they are getting all these bad actors telling them it’s better NOT to be trans. That only affects the trans kids. Telling a strait kid that it’s better to be trans will be met with scoffs. Telling a trans kid that being trans is bad somehow will fuck them up.
No, it definitely happens.
I see it all the time and they’re not even ashamed of it.
Where are you that you see trans people try to convince children it is better to be trans “all the time?”
I may joke to male friends that they should be femboys but that is the extent of what I’ve seen. Whenever anyone says that they actually are questioning their gender I give them as much space as they need to figure it out themselves but am always open to questions. The trans people I know are the same and most trans people on the internet seem to be too. I wouldn’t be too surprised if there are some people who are not like us and do try to force others. I think cis people trying to force trans people to be cis are more common.
I may joke to male friends that they should be femboys but that is the extent of what I’ve seen.
Yeah, that’s how it starts. It’s how neo-nazis wriggle their way into places they shouldn’t be.
“It’s just a joke, bro.” Until it isn’t.
I mean you’re not wrong about jokes being used like that. In this case the jokes at most encourage them to explore their gender expression, I’m not suggesting that they transition in any way.
If you want to directly compare like that it would imply that I (a trans person) am sneaking into cishet places. This alone should probably show that it’s a bad comparison because friendship isn’t something that should be discriminated by gender, sexuality, race, or idk nose position.
Where are you that you see trans people try to convince children it is better to be trans “all the time?”
Sorry flying squid, I can tell you’re on a tirade and are going to keep replying to all of my posts if I keep responding to you.
I’m going to stop this now and put you on ignore. I hope you can realize for yourself why you’re incorrect, but it’s not my problem to educate you about the real world.
Goodbye, and good luck.
What a bizarre lie.
Are you conflating “it’s ok to be trans” with “being trans is better?” Becuase those are not the same thing. Is what you’re saying anecdotal or do you have like a real source?
E: ah I see your comment history, I understand now. Please, what is the “trans agenda” in your own words. Btw, contrary to what you’ve said you’ve always been allowed not to like trans, people, or even hate the idea of people being trans, just like people can call you out on it, what you can’t do is take away their rights, that’s when there is an issue. P.s. I hope you’re against circumcisions.
No, I’m not conflating them.
Let me repeat exactly what I wrote: “there are bad actors who will try to convince them that it’s better to be trans.” I shouldn’t have to spell this out for you, but this means that some people will try to convince others that it’s better to be trans.
Are you trying to argue that those people don’t exist? If so, please say it.
Granted, you did say that, sure there may be 1 or two people who say that and you said you see it all the time, so surely its widespread. I see you aren’t aware of hyperbole. Now that that’s done with. Will you continue to conveniently ignore my questions?
I never used the word “widespread” or mentioned scale at all. I’m glad we can at least agree that it does happen.
You can figure out the answers to your questions on your own.
wrong website, go back to Reddit and Xitter
I love the response you’re getting. A wholesome community until you have a different opinion. This is how you know Lemmy is simply comprised of the top crust layer of Reddit. The worst it had to offer.
Here’s an idea for you: leave.
No. But the offer is appreciated all the same. I know you would love it more if you only engaged with people who think exactly like you, and only have the opinions and conclusions you do. It feels good to constantly have your ideology and agenda confirmed. Makes you feel superior.
No, I don’t mind your difference in opinion, I’m more concerned with your vitriolic attitude, personally.
A wholesome community until you have a different opinion.
“Please tolerate my intolerance! You have to support me wanting people removed from the public! I’m normal!! You need to treat me equal while I don’t treat people equal, or you’re being hypocritical!!!”
“if you oppose my views, you’re a bigot, and I don’t debate bigots, hence I won’t debate you. I win”
See, I can put words in quotation marks too. Look how cool we look.
Opposing the views that trans people exist and that their rights matter does, indeed, make you a bigot.
Of course they exist. You can literally see them. And they have the same rights as I do, assuming they are a legal citizen of the USA.
And they have the same rights as I do, assuming they are a legal citizen of the USA.
No. No they don’t. Trump has ensured that.
This is from 19 days ago and he has done a lot more since.
In just one example- A cisgender person will have no trouble getting things like testosterone or estrogen if their doctor says they need it. Trans people are losing that right.
I doubt there is a federal, state, or local law, or in the constitution that states you have a right to getting testosterone or estrogen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance. This paradox was articulated by philosopher Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945),[1] where he argued that a truly tolerant society must retain the right to deny tolerance to those who promote intolerance. Popper posited that if intolerant ideologies are allowed unchecked expression, they could exploit open society values to erode or destroy tolerance itself through authoritarian or oppressive practices.
This paradox raises complex issues about the limits of freedom, especially concerning free speech and the protection of liberal democratic values. It has implications for contemporary debates on managing hate speech, political extremism, and social policies aimed at fostering inclusivity without compromising the integrity of democratic tolerance.
Above room temperature IQ shit, please use the brain I assume you’re equipped with, but my faith in that is dwindling.
Oh, wow, a concept someone conceived.
I don’t see an opposing view as intolerance, thus your link is moot.
When the original viewpoint is that trans people exist and are valuable, opposition to that viewpoint is most certainly intolerant.
You know Garak is gay, right?
I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do with this information.
Show solidarity by not considering “think of the children” transphobia as simply a “different opinion.” It’s not far from considering homosexuals “sick in the head.”
No one was talking about gay people. This is the problem when you try to lump a bunch of alphabet letters into the same group. They’re not a monolith.
No, they’re not, but the people who want to oppress them and wipe them from existence don’t care about that. Don’t help them.
I’m not attempting to help or not help anyone. That’s not my job. But I won’t stifle my words or yours because someone, somewhere thinks it might be “harming” someone.
When that opinion is deeply harmful, is directly contrary to all scientific evidence, results in actual groomers (not trans people) being able to take advantage of ignorance, and is generally used by bigots as a wedge to repress sexual education well beyond teen years–yeah this is the response you get
Basically what you’re saying is, conversation and opposing virepoints is harmful. Which is a fascist view.
I’m all for people making their own choices. But teaching children about sexuality is wrong, let alone assuming a child has the mind to transition their gender. This is sick in the head.
OP’s opinion about teaching young children, too young to grasp the concept of sexuality being wrong is simply their opinion. Many children grow out of gender identity disorder once they reach a certain age (not all, but many).
Your “science” is hotly contested around the world. Simply because you’ve chosen to accept a particular conclusion doesn’t mean everyone has to.
I’m not addressing the grooming nonsense or “used by biogts” comment as they are simply left wing talking points.
I do not suspect I’ll find meaningful dialog here as too many of you are hateful and close minded leading to an inability to have conversation that doesn’t include insults and name calling. Cheers.
It’s not fascist to oppose intolerance. You are attacking people’s core identities; their right to exist. It’s not an attack on you when people defend themselves from you. We’re not discussing our favorite movies here. Some other examples of harmful lies:
“People with dark skin are dumb”
“Women are too emotional to make their own decisions”
“Poor people don’t deserve clean air, water and food”
“Being queer is a mental disorder”
“Many children grow out of gender identity disorder once they reach a certain age” (seriously, this is totally made up. Less than 5% of people do this and many of those only detransition because of the hate they encounter)
Climate change is hotly contested too. That doesn’t mean the people contesting it have any valid points. People who are actually invested in evidence-based research, not those trying to cobble together post-hoc justification for their fear, have a general consensus that giving children a basic understanding of what is and isn’t sexually appropriate makes them much safer. And if a child asks whether it’s okay to like either gender, it’s easy to simply answer “yes.”
“Many children grow out of gender identity disorder once they reach a certain age”
I was curious about this and looked it up. Philip had a good comment on it. TL;DR, the studies people use for this claim are deeply flawed and should not be used as legitimate evidence. At least I know where transphobes are getting this claim from now.
Go cheers yourself with your lies.
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
Please fuck off. I really want to believe that you are just ignorant and mean well, but still. It’s hard being polite.
I am gay, and I have known it even before I knew what the word “gay” meant. Being gay doesn’t just mean “ooo I wanna fuck that manly ass so much, ooo I wanna suck dick”. Does being straight mean “pussy pussy I want pussy”? No. It can mean having romantic feelings for your male best friend, really liking to look at a male celeb for a very long time cuz they just “look pretty” and so on.
I was surrounded by homophobes who constantly denounced being homosexuality. I had to spend my entire childhood feeling that there was something terribly wrong with me. This was until I actually discovered the LGBTQ community. I understood that I was not the only “freak” like this in the world. I understood that I could live a nice and beautiful life as a gay dude.
If I was exposed to the concept of homosexuality in childhood (the fact that something like this even exists, and that you’re not a freak for being gay in case you think you are), then my childhood would’ve been a lot better.
The same goes with gender identity. I’m cis, so I won’t be able to give a very good description of what it’s like being trans, but from what I’ve understood from my trans friends, it’s pretty similar.
Why should kids have to suffer for not being cis n straight? Conservatives make it seem as if kids are being taught how to fellatio Jeffery Epstein or something. Kids do need to know about concepts like these (them being sexuality, gender identity, etc.) so that they can protect themselves from going down the spiral of self hatred.
Listen downvote me all you want. I’m all for people living how they want to. But school and childhood years are not fit to teach people about sexuality, especially before teenage years. If I had a kid, I wouldn’t want them to be subject to these topics until they’re at least 13-14 and that’s a teenager at that point. Most children have no idea how sexuality or genders work anyway and saying that a child can be transgender is such a wild concept to me. It’s the same as claiming a child is totally straight or gay. They’re children, what the fuck do they know.
I had my first sex ed class 8 and I was fine with it. My parents didn’t like talking about those sort of things and without school teaching me about it my knowledge would have been very lacking.
I’ve done stereotypically male and female things since I was 3. I didn’t understand what feeling like a gender was until recently and I have felt a lot better getting to explore my gender whenever I have one. If I had been taught more about it when I was young I don’t see how that exploration would have been different then from how it is for me now, except that I now am stuck with some permanent marks from pubery, some of which I do like tbh but some I really don’t like but could have probably avoided if I had known in advance.
Are you aware that girls can have their first period years before that?
In fact, there was a girl in my elementary school class who had her first during class earlier than most. She freaked out and thought she was dying, as she had not received any education regarding it. It was a horrible, embarrassing, and traumatic event for her that could have been easily prevented with proper education and preparation. This kind of thing is not uncommon for young girls to go through and it’s incredibly sad the way we view sexual education and our bodies.
And that is how you end up with pregnant teenagers.
If a kid happens to have two dads, then what the hell are you going to hide from them until they’re friggin’ 13 years old? And WHY?
I’m all for people living how they want to. But school and childhood years are not fit to teach people about sexuality, especially before teenage years.
That is an unbelievably stupid proposal. By age 13 boys, and especially girls (because they start sooner) are well into puberty. They’ve already had sexual questions and feelings for years by that point. In the absence of any teaching on what is happening to their bodies and what the consequences are of engaging in intercourse too early, many of them will make minor to catastrophic choices simply because we wouldn’t have given them normal human knowledge.
If I had a kid, I wouldn’t want them to be subject to these topics until they’re at least 13-14 and that’s a teenager at that point.
How do you not remember what your own childhood was like? On your 13th birthday did you, for the first time, look at your genitalia and wonder what it was for or “where babies came from”? No, of course not. You asked some of those questions likely when you were 6 or 7 years old. If nothing else you are leaving your child vulnerable to sexual abuse because you haven’t told them what healthy boundaries are or at worst, sexual abusers themselves again because you haven’t told them what healthy boundaries are to be respected.
Most children have no idea how sexuality or genders work anyway and saying that a child can be transgender is such a wild concept to me. It’s the same as claiming a child is totally straight or gay. They’re children, what the fuck do they know.
Seriously? Do simply you dismiss any idea or notion a child has about themselves in any capacity until they magically turn 13? If they tell you their favorite color is blue, do you tell them they can’t possibly know their own mind?
Most children have no idea how sexuality or genders work anyway
So all the kids who make fun of the “fairy boy” or “butch girl” don’t have pre-existing knowledge of gender and sexuality expectations?
Then why aren’t bullies targeting girls for dressing up in boas and singing pop? Why aren’t boys made fun of for cutting their hair short and liking sports? Put a boy in the first scenario and a girl in the second, and other kids will point them out as being “different.”
If kids have “no idea how sexuality or genders work” then what, exactly, makes this type of discrimination possible?
On an unrelated note, your understanding of children in general is absolutely baffling. It’s clear you aren’t around kids much, don’t remember your own childhood, and know diddly squat about child development. Kids are much smarter than you
think.And yet some kids do know they’re totally straight, or gay, or transgender, before they even turn 12, or 11, etc.
They might not have the vocabulary to express it, and others might not know how it works or how they feel, so that’s just all the more reason to teach them.
Imagine if we treated any other subject like this: “oh the children have no idea how it works, lets not subject them to it”. It doesn’t make sense, of course they don’t understand if they’ve never heard of it.
I knew I was into girls when I was five. I didn’t know what heterosexuality (or any other sexuality) was, but I knew girls made me feel a way that boys didn’t. And when I did learn that there were boys who felt that way about boys like I did about girls, it was about my much older brother’s college roommate and eventual best friend, who is gay. I think maybe I was seven.
Somehow it didn’t destroy me.
And you knowing gay people exist when you were 7 didn’t turn you gay? Whoah, that’s soo surprising /s
Somehow knowing gay and straight people exist somehow didn’t turn me anything, I’m ace, it’s almost as if it has nothing to do with it…
Sometimes I wonder with these bigots, like how does their worldview even remotely make sense? (not talking about you ofc to be clear)
The evidence says you’re wrong. Age appropriate sex education has huge proven benefits. Although sex education has basically nothing to do with gender identity, despite your conflation of the two.
And you are absolutely not for letting people live how they want with this position. You are for enabling the government to violently intrude on and control people’s lives about some of the most crucial and intimate aspects of their lives.
Shame on you.
I hate how people conflate sexuality and sex. You can be gay and die a virgin and I have no idea why some people don’t understand that. It’s about who attracts you, not what you do.
Exactly. When I talked to my conservative Indian grandpa about gay people, he was like “how would you feel if two bearded dudes just started fucking in the street?”. It’s really crazy how people can be so… dumb…
I have known it even before I knew what the word “gay” meant.
Same in my case. I invested my own word and told my parents that I wanted to be a “tomgirl” (the opposite of a tomboy) in 3rd grade.
Honestly it’s kinda wholesome.Honestly it’s kinda wholesome.
Agreed haha. So cute
To all my trans family, we will fight for you.
Just curious, who exactly are you including when you say “we”?
Dev Patel for one…
Me. They’re including me.
And me.
We is anyone that cares for another person. If you are a POS person then you are they. The ones I will fight.
I’m all about positivity, but let’s be real: the World is not better or worse because of someone’s sexuality or gender identity, but is a lot worse for everyone because of the existence of bigoted people that have nothing better to do than meddle in other people’s lives.
Bro, i gave up, this is getting worst than Reddit in some matters. And yep, or you say you love them or they will downvote you to Mordor, there is no Middle ground on Middle ground
You do know that downvoting doesn’t hide posts on Lemmy like it does on Reddit, right?
In a bigoted world, even the existence of the oppressed is a strike against bigotry.
Survive, and the world is better for it.
I’d expect you to have exactly that opinion
I like that. It makes the fight to keep breathing another day something not strictly out of selfishness. Because you’re right, if everyone stopped fighting those fights we’d lose a lot of people, not just trans ppl, and yeah, the world would be solely populated by hard uncaring Viltrumites.
Kindness must persevere.
So you acknowledge that bigots make things worse for everyone, but you blame the people they’re bigoted against for it? What are you trying to say here?
Where did I blame the oppressed people for the existence of bigotry?
All I’m saying is, for all the qualities a person can have that makes the World better for everyone else, being a specific gender is one of the most irrelevant.
Gender is a personal subject that only matters for you and the people you care about and care about you.
Change “trans kids” for “cis kids” in the banner and you’ll understand what I’m talking about. The picture message is empty of meaning.
To be clear, I have nothing against someone’s gender identity and I could have commented nothing at all. But this is a public forum, and I have an opinion on it, so there we are.
This is so true. A pity you got down voted. Obviously bigots don’t like being called out.
Insane that this comment gets downvoted here lmao people have really lost the plot
True
No trans person has ever done anything bad to anyone I care about.
All Republicans have.
I live in San Diego, and I have met maybe 3 or 4 trans folks in my day to day vibes. Nobody has been weird or inappropriate. Nobody has been anything other than human in the nearly 20 California years I’ve lived here. The fact that there are national effing laws aimed at an actual handful of folks is absolutely wild to me. I’m a ~40 year old cis white male, but you will always have me in the fight, as will anyone else just trying to live life. Stay excellent to one-another, love y’all 💗
I’m not trans myself, but I’d be willing to die to defend my friends who are
Thanks you. Always very heartening to know that there are at least some people on your side.
I will always have your back. I will have the back of anyone judged by their inherent traits.
<3
Thanncs :3c
TRANS RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS
THE WORLD IS BETTER WITH MY TRANS FRIENDS IT
AND THE WORLD IS DIMMER WITHOUT THEM
THE ONLY PEOPLE THE WORLD DOESN’T NEED ARE FASCISTS AND THEIR ENABLERS
AND THIS IS A THREAT TO ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE
Lol
Everyone disliked that
And how exactly are you going to carry out that threat?
Education and if they refuse to learn, anything else to ensure the safety of the others. Needs of the many outweigh the feelings of the few.
That’s the lamest way to carry out a threat I’ve ever heard.
Do what I say!
Or else what?
Or else…I’ll send you a…wikipedia link!
Dun dun duuuuun!
“You are not worse for your association with the world, but it is better for its association with you.”
- Brandon Sanderson (Oathbringer)
A friend of mine had a party for her official gender change last year and I was so happy for her!
Just knowing she felt safe to come out in front of her family and friends and was able to start HRT and change her gender marker in official documents felt like a huge success. Not just for her, but for progressive politics in our country.
🤢
🤡
