Little bothered that Tim Russ said “bias” instead of “biased”
I’m not mad I’m just disappointment.
I’m not mad just disappoint
Son. I am dissapoint.
I’m not anger. I’m disappointment.
So I am confusion https://youtube.com/shorts/U7X7cEh5au8?si=hSmKh4IpfDwQqLkE
I hope somebody replied with “hi bias, I’m dad”
No, you see he is the literal human embodiment of the concept of bias and was letting us know. The other tweets are unrelated
It’s true, that’s why his role as Tuvok was so impressive. The exact opposite of type casting
This is a pet peeve of mine
A peeve of mine is the term “pet peeve”. 😅
If something bothers you so, why the fuck would you keep, nurture, and tend to it as a pet?
I propose it change to haunting peeve, because you don’t want it, can’t get rid of it, and it exists regardless if you think about it or not.
😁 (I’m not super serious about this, but “pet peeve” really does low-key bother me)
I can support this
Omg you are an actual person. Every time I see your username under a post I, for whatever reason, think it’s the community name.
I’ve seen a lot of your posts I think 😅 thanks for what you do! 🫡
(No it didn’t register that I replied to you until I went back to look… I don’t really -see- usernames)
I am, and thanks! Beep boop, I like sharing memes. Just doing my part to help Lemmy grow.
I like that you like sharing memes, because I’ve come across them enough to think you are a community unto yourself.
I like sorting by new to report garbage and interact with things that would otherwise die, also to help Lemmy grow! It’s lonely in new but… i get to report a lot of weird stuff… so there’s that 🫠
Thank you for your service, soldier. That’s the kind of stuff Lemmy needs!
it’s actually short for petite peeve, because it’s something small and unimportant. Or maybe it’s not, but you don’t know.
It’s partly a joke (your favourite peeve, for example) and probably a reference to the other, now archaic, meaning of pet:
fit of peevishness, offense or ill-humor at feeling slighted
I think you can accept idioms as they are or you’ll be endlessly feeling like one saying or another has got your goat
You must have missed the part that says I’m not really serious.
I’m a little bias short and stout, here is my handle here is my spout
They separated Tuvix on the bias and Tim got more of him.
I’ve noticed that grammar error a lot on the Internet. Bias is discussed frequently as a topic of popular rage-bait posts.
FYI for those people: “bias” is a noun that is the thing, and “biased” is an adjective that describes a person who has the bias. “The biased person showed their bias” for example.
It’s definitely one of the more common ones. I see that alot
Autocorrect ducks for us all.
For people over a certain age I always assume they’re using text to speech and don’t worry about going back and correcting it. My wife is somehow always talking to someone else in the room while she dictates to her watch, so I have a lot of fun interpreting her texts.
If you understand someone well enough to correct them, you didn’t have to.
Just because you understand someone well enough to correct them doesn’t mean everyone else will
Just because you understand them well enough today doesn’t mean you will tomorrow
We should all be striving to be better than we are, not breeding resentment from contentment
Just because you understand someone well enough to correct them doesn’t mean everyone else will
Then they should ask for clarification.
Just because you understand them well enough today doesn’t mean you will tomorrow
At which point you can ask for clarification.
We should all be striving to be better than we are, not breeding resentment from contentment
And part of “better” is having the perspective and desire to avoid pedantry where it’s not needed.
We’re clearly not going to agree here. Plenty of people would rather be made aware of their mistakes and that’s no less valid than your point of view. Personally I would rather avoid potential misunderstandings than deal with them after the fact. I’m not the only one who feels that way.
Just because … doesn’t mean …
I hate this extragrammatical idiom so much.
But given that colloquial usage trumps all else when it comes to driving the evolution of language, most people could care less.
Interesting choice given the way that’s been shifting slowly back to the more accurate form in the past however many years.
If colloquial usage did trump all, irregardless would’ve been acknowledged as a correct word well before I was born. It may be the driving force but it’s hardly the only, or even constantly deciding, factor
Yeah, what’s the deal with that. Yes, the two sound similar, but saying “I’m bias” is like saying “I’m anger” instead of “I’m angry” or “I’m sadness” instead of “I’m sad”.
It’s like the “would of” people. They don’t hear it in speech so they type it how it sounds to them.
Or it’s autocorrect
only because it makes him look like he learned to read on tumblr
Or X(Twitter) or Reddit or Facebook or…
Tumblr is an offender but let’s not pretend it’s the only one
don’t fucking get sensitive
Seems like it’s a bit of a sensitive spot for you…
stupidity absolutely is, every time i encounter it
So like on Twitter and Reddit and Tumblr and Facebook and…
take your hokey religion someplace else, son this street corner is taken
Unrelated to Trek, one of my favorite Twitch streams was watching AOC play Among Us with Ilhan Omar, Canadian MP Jagmeet Singh, and a bunch of YouTubers like Jack Septiceye and ContraPoints. The way Omar would giggle every time she killed somebody was adorable.
Didn’t Omar take a couple of rounds as the imposter, too?
She was straight up excellent.
Concerningly excellent, as someone who lives in Minnesota, lol.
Janeway leads with focus on her mission - to get her crew home
I don’t believe that AOC has seen more than about three episodes of Voyager. If she had seen at least three, the statistical likelihood that she would have seen one where Janeway yanks the crew into some conflict they have absolutely no business involving themselves in would approach 100%
yanks the crew into some conflict they have absolutely no business involving themselves
That’s all of Star Trek.
In fact, that’s almost all of most of the space drama series.
Also the family vacation series
MERRY CHRISTMAS! PHOTONIC FUEL WASTE TANK WAS FULL!
Well yes, but when Janeway does it, we mind. Because… reasons…
That’s why I love Lost In Space and thought VOY would be more like it. It… wasn’t.
Poor statement of her mission. IIRC Janeway says pretty clearly in one of the first episodes that they’re still going to carry out their duty as a Starfleet ship to seek out new life and new civilizations, boldly go, etc. That’s their mission, and getting home is an important part but not all of it.
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…why would you even go into a thread about Tuvix if you feel that way? “This Slayer concert is just too dang loud!”
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Says someone calling themselves a woke hobbit …
I think Equinox was a really good story about what a starfleet crew looks like if they abandon their principles in order to get home.
Remember this cool stuff? Now it’s just a fascist site with RW morons trying to out-nazi each other.
By Trek’s logic, Tuvix’s identical copy lives in an alternative universe of some sort. And that’s really the only way to justify all this.
Ed: Also the “Oh wait, they can’t speak so someone has to speak for them” has some interesting implications, doesn’t it.
Dude. Mirror universe tuvix. Gets the imagination going.
Considering Mirror Tuvok was still on Terok Nor, I would love to see how they explain that one
He’s not originally from the mirror universe, but since he is an asshole version, he naturally ended up in the asshole universe
He’s Tuvix … but sexy!
Surely they also have a copy of his pattern in the transporter buffer.
that pattern buffer is a plot hole big enough to show a Klingon Battle Cruiser a good time
Trek has no true multiverse in the modern sense of the concept. It’s more of a single-timeline with occasional aberrations. It has the occasional “alternate timeline”, but almost always uses the concept that those are temporary and collapse once the “real” timeline is restored - unless some important event or other metaphysical technobabble causes them to remain stable.
The only major examples of timelines that didn’t seem to vanish after the protagonists had left are the Mirror Universe and the Kelvin Timeline. There are little pocket loops here and there, but by and large it seems that there is One True Timeline that can be reshaped, but doesn’t branch endlessly.
That said, you gotta figure that the Mirror Universe version of Tuvix got wind of the plan to split him in half and did some splitting of his own.
I don’t even think that the Mirror Universe version of Tuvix could happen. The only reason that Voyager was stranded was Janeways insistence of not letting the Kazon control the Caretakers Array/Kill the Ocampans. In the Mirror Universe, would that even happen? Either Janeway takes everyone back or they use the Array to control that section of the Delta Quadrant.
Mirror universe Janeway would use the caretaker technology to conquer the Delta Quadrant and become the Borg queen without even being assimilated.
Apparently there’s a comic or novel where MU Janeway is the “pirate queen of the Delta Quadrant”, so you’re not far off.
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That Riker example you’re using wasn’t something they could easily duplicate though. It was an accident involving too many variables for Voyager to re-create. But let’s say that they do manage to create two Tuvixs.
Which one do you kill? The new one? The old one? By what criteria? Both don’t want to die. You’ve cloned them, sure, but now you’re still sentencing a sentient being to death. The only thing you’ve done is make the decision twice as hard. Before it was just “Tuvix or Tuvok/Neelix?” Now it’s “Tuvix and Tuvix? Or Tuvix and Tuvok/Neelix? Or Tuvok/Neelix and Tuvix?”
Exactly, the transporter beam bounced back off the atmosphere and made a copy of Riker if I remember correctly. It was a unique trait of that particular planet.
Basically, yeah. There was a disruptive distortion field around the planet. Transporter chief used two confinement beams to try and grab Riker but only one was needed so he shut the second down. The second beam had the same ‘phase differential’ as the distortion field so it reflected inside the atmosphere and ‘beamed’ Riker back to the ground, creating a split.
Voyager would have had to find a planet with this type of distortion field and adjust their confinement beam to match that of the planet. Good luck.
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The Riker example was just one of many wasn’t it? The “transporter clone” trope has been around since StarTrek: The Original Series when Captain Kirk was replicated by accident. As well as recent trek canon when Boimler was replicated on StarTrek: Lower Decks.
Kirk wasn’t cloned, he was split into two different versions of himself that contained different parts of his personality/ego. A clone needs to be a copy, not a lower resolution version of the character. Also Boimler was re-created through the same fashion that Riker was. It also happened 20ish years after Voyager left for the Delta Quadrant.
From an in-universe perspective, given the numerous transporter accidents throughout Starfleet’s history, it would seem logical that Starfleet would invest resources into understanding these anomalies to prevent unintended duplications or other mishaps. Transporter technology is complex and interacts with a myriad of environmental conditions, which might explain why these accidents, while rare in the context of all transport operations, still happen occasionally.
They do. Starfleets whole thing is exploration and study. During the episodes where there have been clones you see a vast amount of information that’s uncovered. Testing is done to see what happened and how to prevent it from happening again in the future.
Voyager could have taken the next steps and introduced a new level of control over the technology by relying on Starfleet, had it thoroughly investigated and understood these incidents. I don’t see why they might not have developed protocols or technologies to recreate such anomalies intentionally. This could have provided Captain Janeway with an additional solution to the Tuvix dilemma.
This doesn’t make sense. You’re asking Voyager, who is tens of thousands of lightyears from known space, to somehow recreate an anomaly. They do not have the level of study of each planet that would be required to find a suitable testbed. They also do not have the time. They’re looking for ways to get home. The anomalies they’ve stopped and encountered along the way (without being pushed into investigating by aliens) have been overwhelmingly to either further the goal of getting home faster or to supply the ship with necessities for the trip. Moreover, there’s the fact that the transporter cloning incidents were pure anomalies. Just because Starfleet studied them and knows what happens does not mean that they’re able to recreate it. We’ve seen numerous times that Starfleet can understand a phenomena but can’t replicate it. You’re asking way too much of a small science vessel stranded in the Delta Quadrant.
Also as for which to kill, that would of course be up to Tuvix - which without his consent this would be moot.
That’s the pint I am trying to make. You will not get his consent. Ever. He doesn’t want to die. Just because you clone someone doesn’t mean that logically they’re going to go “Oh, well I guess, I can die if it means that another version of me lives.” He was acting on a survival instinct. He’s not going to override that just because there’s a clone. Which means you must still make the decision that Janeway made. You STILL MUST decide whether to kill Tuvix or let him live. Your cloning idea might be a nice idea but that’s all it is. An idea. When put into practice it immediately falls apart because you’re back to the same argument that was made at the start. Do you have the right to execute one man to save the lives of two others? The issue of the episode isn’t “Tuvix is a unique lifeform and then must be saved”. It’s “Do you have the right to kill someone in order to save others?” If you add a transporter clone into that mix the question doesn’t change.
The transporter clone option is a nice idea but that’s all it is. An idea. There is no situation in which you can put it into practice and have it be a solution to the problem.
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No, I’m saying by the time of Voyager this teleporter clone technology could very well have been figured out. It seems a wasted opportunity to not take advantage of that storyline and open up anyone more ethical dilemmas.
Transporter clones are not that simple. When they occur it’s because of a strange anomaly. Just because something does happen doesn’t mean that they’ll be able to recreate it. Everytime they’ve happened it’s been either because of situations beyond their control or due to a complete accident.
I see absolutely no reason why not.
I have literally told you why. You keep ignoring it. You cannot use transporter clones to solve this problem when the problem is “do you have the right to kill them”. A transporter clone does NOTHING other than add another person to kill. Just because you have a backup doesn’t mean you suddenly are granted free murder rights.
I can’t imagine why he wouldn’t be in favor of the plan, especially since he is half Vulcan. It’s a very logical solution to the issue.
He was also half-vulcan during his freakout on the bridge. Logic dictates to get your crewmen back. You are in stranded space. You are now relying on one individual to take the responsibilities of two roles. It is logical to separate Tuvix. Loved ones got their loved ones back, the responsibilities were no longer collated into a single person, and a lack of complex/new biology makes it easier for Sick Bay. It is not logical to run around on the bridge screaming for people to not kill you. Logic doesn’t seem to make much difference to Tuvix. That was also established in the episode itself where he acted based off of hunches and thoughts, not facts and opinion. Moreover, this is a survival mechanism. HE doesn’t want to die. Just because someone else is going to live his life doesn’t mean anything. He isn’t the one who is going to live that life. You are not giving the emotional situation here the weight it overwhelmingly deserves. Especially when the character never acted logical.
Of course, but this way they can all coexist. I see it as an absolute win win for everyone.
You know, except for the Tuvix that you have to kill. A decision that is now made WAY more cold by using a transporter clone. Janeway was put in a tough decision and had to make a rough call. The option you’re providing turns Janeway into a coldblooded killer who has already pre-emptively decided to kill but wants to have her cake and eat it too. I find it way more fucked up to have her resigned to already killing a man instead of being choked up making that decision.
I definitely disagree. The argument is the cost of Tuvix, my solution preserves Tuvix. I’m not sure you understand what I’m proposing or are just not accepting that in this case there is no real death of anyone.
No, that is not the argument and has never been the argument. The argument has always been “Does Janeway have the right to kill Tuvix?” That is literally the argument that’s made in the episode. Just because you’re cloning one and being able to keep Tuvix doesn’t suddenly mean that you’re still not killing a sentient creature.
When you can simultaneously preserve the life, absolutely!
Then, even though there wasn’t a clone, Janeway was in the right.
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Yeah, we will have to end it there because you’re just ignoring half of what I’m saying and ignoring the episode itself.
I disagree because you’re just objectively wrong. The literal argument made in the episode is that what Janeway is doing is wrong. It has nothing to do with wiping out his unique experience. It’s the fact that he doesn’t want to die. That’s the literal words he uses. “I don’t want to die.” Both Tuvix and Kes talk to Janeway about whether or not he should die. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a version of him will continue to exist.
Take care, wish you the best, but I am beyond done.
Thomas Riker was created through a complete freak accident involving a distortion field that reflected a transporter beam in the exact right way to duplicate Will Riker. It’s not something that be done easily at will.
Now cloning and memory implantation are completely possible as well, like that one TNG episode where they make a clone of Kahless or that one very dumb ENT episode where there’s a clone of Trip. I’m not sure, but cloning is probably illegal by the time of Voyager, since genetic augmentation is completely illegal throughout the Federation.
But the main problem is that nothing other than killing Tuvix would have satiated Janeway’s bloodlust. For real, she’s like the most evil person in that entire show.
Also relevant: When Kate Mulgrew surprised everyone at an AOC campaign speech before she got elected.
That link isn’t working for me. Am I the only one?
see now that is what the social medias are actually good for
Don’t know how I missed this one. Thanks for digging it up buddy. Amazing stuff. ♥️
The needs of the many…
The fact that it is still widely discussed even after so many years, proves is such a great episode with a great moral dilemma.
Whether they chose is the right choice or not, I can not say.
But from a story perspective, all I can say is that I didn’t really like the character of Tuvix, too whiney and weird. While Neelix may not be everyone’s favourite, Tuvok definitely was an excellent addition to the team. So for my enjoyment, they did make the right choice.
Who’s/What’s Tuvix?
Further to the link. Tuvix is a character in star trek voyager. There is a transporter accident that ends up welding 2 other characters (Lieutenant Tuvok, Neelix) into 1 individual. The episode is spent trying to resolve this issue.
By the end, Captain Janeway is given a solution. They can reverse the process and recover Tuvok and Neelix. Unfortunately this will destroy Tuvix. Tuvix, meanwhile has developed on his own. He doesn’t want to die and makes that clear. Janeway has the dilemma. She can do nothing, and let Tuvix live, or kill him to bring Tuvok and Neelix back.
Basically, it’s the trolley problem. Do nothing, and 2 people die, or kill 1 yourself, to save them.
What I don’t get is why they didn’t do some technofoolery with the transporters to make a copy of Tuvix and then just split that one. In a universe where there’s two William Rikers there’s gotta be a way to use transporters to clone.
You kinda have to accept the bounds of the problem as stated in order for it to be worth thinking about. It undercuts the value of the experiment if you just say “I find a solution other than those presented which denied the central conflict entirely”.
Yes it’s called being an engineer
O’Brien could probably do it if you give him a couple hours
O’Brien, you’ve got 15 minutes!
Then you’d have two Tuvixes that both don’t want to die. Actually I had an entire day of one philosophy class to discuss this, however it was very specific that “teletransportation” absolutely kills you and replicates you. My professor specifically said that having an understanding of star trek was necessary that day.
Just keep one in the transporter buffer and repolarize the Heisenberg compensator to split it apart before materialization. It wouldn’t ever know it existed. Like unzipping a file in a temporary directory.
I should’ve seen this before I wrote my comment
What if you transported Tuvix for the duplicate and somehow split one of them mid transition?
They were out of chronotons.
There’s not supposed to be. Every time a transporter clone happens it’s due to external and uncontrollable factors.
Moriarty was an accident but then The Doctor was on purpose.
Not really. The Doctor wasn’t really as advanced as chat gpt. Just an emergency tool. Voyager was stranded without a doctor so they used it full time and he grew sentience along the way.
My personal headcanon is that they would have had they had the full resources of Starfleet at their disposal. The Riker incident was, as far as we know, non-reproducible, or someone somewhere would have found a way to weaponize it.
Terrible idea. Any time a transporter duplicates somebody, one of them turns evil. (See the DS9 episode where Tom Riker pretends to be Will Riker and hijacks the Defiant, or the reason Harry Kim, who was replaced by his own duplicate early on in the series, never got a promotion).
So now you have to decide to kill Good Tuvix, or kill the other one, which will just give you Evil Tuvok and Evil Neelix.
Could you please resolve the question for people that did not watch star trek. What did she do?
Let’s just say Tuvix is only in one episode
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Yes, where there’s lots of other merged people to play with and space to run around
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To give some context, if I remember correctly, Tuvix wasn’t just “clearly against the split”. He was desperately trying to save his own life, crying out “doesn’t anyone see that this is wrong??”, before they essentially killed him.
Undid the process and restored Neelix and Tuvok, thereby killing Tuvix.
Tuvok and Neelix were individuals but merged into one being, Tuvix. Tuvix had the knowledge and memories of both individuals but existed in one body. One mind. He knew everything the other two did but had his own opinions and reasonings and individuality. The Doctor onboard attempts to find a fix but is unable. He promises to find a solution.
A couple of weeks pass and Tuvix has taken over the duties of both Tuvok and Neelix. He’s developing some friendships and relationships. He’s even more effective in certain situations than his counterpart would have been due to the unique perspective he has. He’s settled in. Then the Doctor informs Captain Janeway and Tuvix that he’s discovered a solution and a way to split Tuvix back into Tuvok and Neelix. Everyone is on board except Tuvix who announces he doesn’t want to die after gaining his own identity.
Janeway is forced into a horrible position. She wants her friends back but also she wants to respect this lifeform and unique person. She hears from Tuvix and other crew members on what their opinion is. Tuvix obviously is against it. Heavily. Kes, Neelix’s girlfriend, desperately wants Neelix back. Tuvok also happens to be Janeways close advisor and close personal friend. After some time, Janeway comes out and asks Tuvix to come with her to sickbay. She is ordering that he undergo the procedure.
Tuvix immediately rebels and starts pleading for his life from various crew members on the bridge. All ignore him and look away. He then attempts to run away but Security officers stop him. Janeway leads him to Sick Bay where he more or less shuts down and just silently judges everyone. The Doctor, aware of Tuvix refusal to undergo the procedure, also refuses to do the procedure. However the procedure is relatively simple to perform. Janeway does the procedure herself, asking the Doctor to step aside. Tuvix is sat down on a bed and Janeway stares him in the eyes. She then splits him back into Tuvok and Neelix. Janeway welcomes the men back and then leaves Sick Bay with a look of self doubt and horror on her face, deeply shaken.
Here’s the scene. It’s a little edited (a couple moments cut and a weird sound effect added when Tuvix is killed) but you see the broadstrokes.
I love this conversation
Has anyone ever asked Tom Wright what he thinks about it?
When you read the script for the episode Tuvix, or when you watched the show, what was your conclusion on the ethical problem? I thought it was wrong of them to kill Tuvix. Nelix and Tuvok were dead, killing Tuvix to bring them back was murder. Im interested in your opinion.
There was a small voice inside of me that agrees with you but I also knew that if I had two loved ones that would disappear forever, I might have to make an unpleasant but necessary choice. It remains an interesting dilemma.
two loved ones
Eh, calling Neelix a “loved one” is a bit of a stretch.
I will not stand for this Neelix slander. He is a loved one and is wonderful. Maybe too colorful at times, maybe tried too hard at times, but did his best and was a fabulous addition to the crew.
Indeed, for what was such a dark, dangerous journey at times it was nice to have someone around who brings some pep.
Janeway is a blood-crazed necromancer who obviously lept at the opportunity to kill someone to bring two people back
Good thing they had an organ printer otherwise she’d be chopping people up for their kidneys
