Sorry, but we’re still going to agree to disagree. Unfortunately, we can’t just make up definitions and have a discussion while in complete disagreement on the definition of the word we’re discussing.
Shame is WHY someone would be driven to pursue insight and self-reflection. Insight in of itself isn’t something that people just attain with no other factors.
Had they been taught the implications that alcohol has on your near-term health and consciousness instead, they might have been wise enough to not drink too much out of themselves. :)
Okay? What does this have to do with shame or the current conversation? I would argue that most kids hit the hard wall of realization the morning after and have some shame about the events of the night prior… Many kids realize their shame and gain insight through self-reflection. Some wont learn anything at all… Partially because some people simply have no shame, or simply have no will to self-reflect and grow… I would argue that your own example proves my point and shows that shame is an important part of growth. Others will learn “properly” about the health risks and still not care and conduct themselves in a shameful way regardless.
Shame requires some amount of morals, integrity, and honor. Otherwise you’d fail to feel any semblance of the guilt or impropriety of your own actions. Stating that someone should be ashamed is akin to saying “you’re acting without integrity/morals if you conduct yourself this way”. If telling people that they’re doing the wrong thing and should feel bad about it is now “banned” then you’re just going to have people doing whatever they want with no social feedback at all. You can’t develop the culture of habits that you’re looking for unless society can police social interactions in some form.
You seem to be under some belief that with sufficient education people will just be “good” and do the “right thing” and we don’t require any other pressure from any other social format to maintain the norm… That’s wishful thinking IMO.
Sorry, but we’re still going to agree to disagree. Unfortunately, we can’t just make up definitions and have a discussion while in complete disagreement on the definition of the word we’re discussing.
Shame is WHY someone would be driven to pursue insight and self-reflection. Insight in of itself isn’t something that people just attain with no other factors.
Okay? What does this have to do with shame or the current conversation? I would argue that most kids hit the hard wall of realization the morning after and have some shame about the events of the night prior… Many kids realize their shame and gain insight through self-reflection. Some wont learn anything at all… Partially because some people simply have no shame, or simply have no will to self-reflect and grow… I would argue that your own example proves my point and shows that shame is an important part of growth. Others will learn “properly” about the health risks and still not care and conduct themselves in a shameful way regardless.
Shame requires some amount of morals, integrity, and honor. Otherwise you’d fail to feel any semblance of the guilt or impropriety of your own actions. Stating that someone should be ashamed is akin to saying “you’re acting without integrity/morals if you conduct yourself this way”. If telling people that they’re doing the wrong thing and should feel bad about it is now “banned” then you’re just going to have people doing whatever they want with no social feedback at all. You can’t develop the culture of habits that you’re looking for unless society can police social interactions in some form.
You seem to be under some belief that with sufficient education people will just be “good” and do the “right thing” and we don’t require any other pressure from any other social format to maintain the norm… That’s wishful thinking IMO.