If you convince the public that one group is undeserving of human rights, then it’s easier to convince them of the next group. It’s also incredibly easy to expand the first group you’ve already dehumanized to include even more people than it did before.
Even if you think nazi’s don’t deserve human rights, what definition of nazi are you using? On the internet, especially Lemmy, people will take each other out of context, call each other nazis over the slightest disagreement and then strut around like they’ve somehow won the debate.
You say nazis don’t deserve human rights but then people go around calling each other nazis over nothingburger disagreements which, according to your logic, immediately revokes their human rights.
And the jump to “the mods must be fascist supporters” is an absolute dive straight into insane troll logic.
The paradox of tolerance doesn’t say shit about adopting the tactics of your perceived enemies (dehumanizing people to justify jailing them or worse) nor does it condone it. It also does not give one a pass to advocate violence against people one accuses of being part of the not-tolerated group.
Again, if the populace of Lemmy didn’t jump straight to “You’re a nazi/bootlicker” as a default method of disagreement, these kinds of comments could be taken differently.
You need to understand, this isn’t “adopting their tactics.” This is “if you do not tolerate others, you no longer are protected by the social contract.”
You can opt out if you wish, but that has to cut both ways, or your contract of tolerance is worthless.
Ok see? We’re not even talking about the same thing. And yet the word Nazi is in the undertone.
Yes actual Nazis are bad. (I can’t believe I have to fucking clarify that; jesus goddamned christ on rubber crutches 🤦♂️). But lemmy just throws that word around so cavalierly and indiscriminately it’s hard to even take it seriously anymore. Add on people dehumanizing anyone they personally think is a nazi, and that’s a recipe for not good.
THIS YEAR there were folks in DC doing goddamn nazi salutes. And they have built a camp in FL. Are you, and maybe this is a big point… are you not american?
Yes, and? Those were not the people the post in question was about. You just unilaterally declared the subject of that post a nazi, decreed that they’re not human (dehumanizing), and that they deserved to be imprisoned because of that. When other commenters pointed out how hypocritical your take was, you doubled down.
The only thing the article mentioned about the guy was that he was a Trump voter. Yes, the nazi bar analogy exists but it’s also true that some people really are just that stupid or brainwashed or otherwise poisoned by the Kool-Aid. Wsa the guy a piece of shit person? Perhaps. Misinformed? Perhaps. An actual Nazi that deserves to be imprisoned or worse? That’s a wee bit of a dangerous stretch given that there was insufficient information to rationally arrive at that conclusion.
Possibly, yes. Resistance comes in many flavors. There are benefits to having people inside, whether that is to smuggle information, provide small comforts to those affected, be eyes and ears, etc.
The point is you (nor I) do not know anything about this guy other than the bits in the article, and there is not enough information to merit a response such as “he is not human and deserves imprisonment or worse”. I’m not defending him specifically (again, insufficient info), but I am condemning you (and anyone else painting the world in such broad strokes) for throwing out assumptions, espousing dehumanizing rhetoric based upon those assumptions, and the hypocritical advocacy of imprisoning people you deem not human.
TL;DR: You’re advocating the same tactics used by those you so abhor on a platform where the demographic calls each other nazis in the comments like it’s a cheat code to winning an argument. I’ve already explained why this rhetoric is dangerous.
scabs. they’re the equivalent of scabs. are scabs at a labor strike ok with you?
i’d like to continue our thread here. i am starting to understand something about your train of thought. see my scab reply and let me know what you think there. or here. either way.
to me, the logistics trucker that puts his humanity at risk by trucking for the nazi camps is … I get it. he’s working class, paycheck to paycheck… but that’s a formula we’ve seen before huh?
a scab in a nursing home or shipping dept or air traffic control is the same formula.
remember, what the first nazi cohorts did was legal when they did it. the camps. the logistics. all of it. (except for that long knives thing)
are we to forgive folks just following orders? just getting by? maybe the trucker is more human than the director of the camp, sure.
i am still going to remind him and others, for the rest of their lives, they supported this “legal” monstrosity of death.
I’m done. I’m fucking done. You’ve moved the goalposts so far beyond the original that I don’t think we’re even in the same state we started out in.
Bottom line: You were espousing dangerous rhetoric given how flippantly people around here resort to calling others nazis (the subjects of articles and other users both). You can’t just deem/call someone a nazi and use that as an excuse for “anything goes”. I’ve explained how that is a dangerous cocktail.
Say what you will. If it’s in violations of the rules, it’ll probably get modded. If the behavior repeats, you may get a ban. That’s not specific to you; it applies to everyone. In no way are mod actions here to be interpreted as anything other than maintaining a civil atmosphere and adherence to the community rules and the LW TOS.
Don’t like it? Go over to YPTB and whine and spin another tall tale about how mods here are fascist bootlickers because we won’t let people screech for violence. Or you can go find another community that allows that kind of bullshit. Frankly, I don’t give a fuck.,
I’ve explained the rationale behind the mod actions clearly and more than once. If you don’t get it by now, I’m not going to entertain you any further.
The discussion you’re chiming in on wasn’t even about this article; it was about one from a week ago. And now you’re butting in with the wrong context, making unfounded accusations, jumping to conclusions, and throwing out personal attacks… Keep up or keep out.
I never said they don’t deserve human rights. I’ve said they are not human. They trade all humanity when they choose to be nazis. Why are you tolerant of nazis enough to not see this point as a repercussion of their own choices?
I never said they don’t deserve human rights. I’ve said they are not human.
That’s literally dehumanizing. I don’t know how you think there’s a difference. If you decree that someone is not human, then what else can you possibly call that?
Why are you tolerant of nazis enough…
I’m not. That’s just the conclusion you jumped to because I modded you for dehumanizing people in the same way the ones you have such strong opinions about have done. Again, yes, the paradox of tolerance exists, but it is not a blank check for that kind of behavior.
You cannot dehumanize that which is not human. THEY dehumanize themselves. Look, I am not going to budge from this mindset. They are physically in meatspace human. But their hearts, minds, souls, and intentions are no longer such. They simply cannot be trusted let alone given an inch.
Bottom line look you got a job to do. Calls for violence? Spams? Yadda yadda. Modding aint easy. But for all that is honest - stop pretending it is somehow important to remind people nazis are human too. “dehumanizing” is your thing, I get that. But look at your audiences and the replies you’ve “inspired” by your action.
if I have been shown to toss a salute, support trump, pine for the good old blood and soil days, and or supply logistics to those doing those things, sure.
as in, the persons in the original article.
it is a choice to support them. a choice that makes you one of them.
america is the bad guy on the current era’s world stage.
stop making it difficult to call nazis out for being inhuman pieces of trash.
they can be healed! but not by threads online. direct community action and a sprinkling of leopards eating faces will turn some around back into being human again.
If you convince the public that one group is undeserving of human rights, then it’s easier to convince them of the next group. It’s also incredibly easy to expand the first group you’ve already dehumanized to include even more people than it did before.
Even if you think nazi’s don’t deserve human rights, what definition of nazi are you using? On the internet, especially Lemmy, people will take each other out of context, call each other nazis over the slightest disagreement and then strut around like they’ve somehow won the debate.
You say nazis don’t deserve human rights but then people go around calling each other nazis over nothingburger disagreements which, according to your logic, immediately revokes their human rights.
And the jump to “the mods must be fascist supporters” is an absolute dive straight into insane troll logic.
Nazi lives don’t matter
Please look up the Paradox of Tolerance, also known as the Contract of Tolerance.
The paradox of tolerance doesn’t say shit about adopting the tactics of your perceived enemies (dehumanizing people to justify jailing them or worse) nor does it condone it. It also does not give one a pass to advocate violence against people one accuses of being part of the not-tolerated group.
Again, if the populace of Lemmy didn’t jump straight to “You’re a nazi/bootlicker” as a default method of disagreement, these kinds of comments could be taken differently.
Why are you defending the intolerant so hard?
You need to understand, this isn’t “adopting their tactics.” This is “if you do not tolerate others, you no longer are protected by the social contract.”
You can opt out if you wish, but that has to cut both ways, or your contract of tolerance is worthless.
Nothingburgers like concentration camps and denying people human rights because they’re brown? Fuck all the way off with your slippery slope horeshit.
Ok see? We’re not even talking about the same thing. And yet the word Nazi is in the undertone.
Yes actual Nazis are bad. (I can’t believe I have to fucking clarify that; jesus goddamned christ on rubber crutches 🤦♂️). But lemmy just throws that word around so cavalierly and indiscriminately it’s hard to even take it seriously anymore. Add on people dehumanizing anyone they personally think is a nazi, and that’s a recipe for not good.
THIS YEAR there were folks in DC doing goddamn nazi salutes. And they have built a camp in FL. Are you, and maybe this is a big point… are you not american?
Are Marxists not Marxist because Marx is dead?
Yes, and? Those were not the people the post in question was about. You just unilaterally declared the subject of that post a nazi, decreed that they’re not human (dehumanizing), and that they deserved to be imprisoned because of that. When other commenters pointed out how hypocritical your take was, you doubled down.
The only thing the article mentioned about the guy was that he was a Trump voter. Yes, the nazi bar analogy exists but it’s also true that some people really are just that stupid or brainwashed or otherwise poisoned by the Kool-Aid. Wsa the guy a piece of shit person? Perhaps. Misinformed? Perhaps. An actual Nazi that deserves to be imprisoned or worse? That’s a wee bit of a dangerous stretch given that there was insufficient information to rationally arrive at that conclusion.
People who work for the nazi run camps are just contractors to you?
Possibly, yes. Resistance comes in many flavors. There are benefits to having people inside, whether that is to smuggle information, provide small comforts to those affected, be eyes and ears, etc.
The point is you (nor I) do not know anything about this guy other than the bits in the article, and there is not enough information to merit a response such as “he is not human and deserves imprisonment or worse”. I’m not defending him specifically (again, insufficient info), but I am condemning you (and anyone else painting the world in such broad strokes) for throwing out assumptions, espousing dehumanizing rhetoric based upon those assumptions, and the hypocritical advocacy of imprisoning people you deem not human.
TL;DR: You’re advocating the same tactics used by those you so abhor on a platform where the demographic calls each other nazis in the comments like it’s a cheat code to winning an argument. I’ve already explained why this rhetoric is dangerous.
scabs. they’re the equivalent of scabs. are scabs at a labor strike ok with you?
i’d like to continue our thread here. i am starting to understand something about your train of thought. see my scab reply and let me know what you think there. or here. either way.
to me, the logistics trucker that puts his humanity at risk by trucking for the nazi camps is … I get it. he’s working class, paycheck to paycheck… but that’s a formula we’ve seen before huh?
a scab in a nursing home or shipping dept or air traffic control is the same formula.
remember, what the first nazi cohorts did was legal when they did it. the camps. the logistics. all of it. (except for that long knives thing)
are we to forgive folks just following orders? just getting by? maybe the trucker is more human than the director of the camp, sure.
i am still going to remind him and others, for the rest of their lives, they supported this “legal” monstrosity of death.
deleted by creator
I’m done. I’m fucking done. You’ve moved the goalposts so far beyond the original that I don’t think we’re even in the same state we started out in.
Bottom line: You were espousing dangerous rhetoric given how flippantly people around here resort to calling others nazis (the subjects of articles and other users both). You can’t just deem/call someone a nazi and use that as an excuse for “anything goes”. I’ve explained how that is a dangerous cocktail.
Say what you will. If it’s in violations of the rules, it’ll probably get modded. If the behavior repeats, you may get a ban. That’s not specific to you; it applies to everyone. In no way are mod actions here to be interpreted as anything other than maintaining a civil atmosphere and adherence to the community rules and the LW TOS.
Don’t like it? Go over to YPTB and whine and spin another tall tale about how mods here are fascist bootlickers because we won’t let people screech for violence. Or you can go find another community that allows that kind of bullshit. Frankly, I don’t give a fuck.,
I’ve explained the rationale behind the mod actions clearly and more than once. If you don’t get it by now, I’m not going to entertain you any further.
Removed by mod
The discussion you’re chiming in on wasn’t even about this article; it was about one from a week ago. And now you’re butting in with the wrong context, making unfounded accusations, jumping to conclusions, and throwing out personal attacks… Keep up or keep out.
Fuck nazis.
I never said they don’t deserve human rights. I’ve said they are not human. They trade all humanity when they choose to be nazis. Why are you tolerant of nazis enough to not see this point as a repercussion of their own choices?
That’s literally dehumanizing. I don’t know how you think there’s a difference. If you decree that someone is not human, then what else can you possibly call that?
I’m not. That’s just the conclusion you jumped to because I modded you for dehumanizing people in the same way the ones you have such strong opinions about have done. Again, yes, the paradox of tolerance exists, but it is not a blank check for that kind of behavior.
You cannot dehumanize that which is not human. THEY dehumanize themselves. Look, I am not going to budge from this mindset. They are physically in meatspace human. But their hearts, minds, souls, and intentions are no longer such. They simply cannot be trusted let alone given an inch.
Bottom line look you got a job to do. Calls for violence? Spams? Yadda yadda. Modding aint easy. But for all that is honest - stop pretending it is somehow important to remind people nazis are human too. “dehumanizing” is your thing, I get that. But look at your audiences and the replies you’ve “inspired” by your action.
Removed by mod
Yep they are some combination of ignorant, greedy, selfish, and cruel, but they are indeed human.
And despite what this administration wants us to think, Latinos are humans too and most are not criminals.
if I have been shown to toss a salute, support trump, pine for the good old blood and soil days, and or supply logistics to those doing those things, sure.
as in, the persons in the original article.
it is a choice to support them. a choice that makes you one of them.
america is the bad guy on the current era’s world stage.
stop making it difficult to call nazis out for being inhuman pieces of trash.
they can be healed! but not by threads online. direct community action and a sprinkling of leopards eating faces will turn some around back into being human again.