Yes, prestige classes were one of the things contributing to bloat and power creep, especially as they weren’t even a particularly elegant solution to the problem they were solving - archetypes actually let you do mixed or more specific character ideas in the way prestige classes were meant to, and dedications open that customisation even further. As much as I love 3.x I’m not blind to its many failings.
I’m not either, I just don’t think prestige classes were the failure. Yes, later prestige were one way power creep and bloat happened, but they aren’t inherent to the state.
That being said, I must admit I’ve only dabbled in PF1 very briefly, so I guess I need to ask for clarity - are archetypes different than subclasses? It was my understand (again, from very far outside) that that was just what PF2 was calling subclasses, and if so, that’s a very different thing than a prestige class in my mind. A part of the appeal of prestige classes to me is worldbuilding groups built of a prestige classes made up of many different classes; I love that Arcane Trickster might have wizard levels, or sorcerer levels, or bard levels, etc… So maybe I’m just out of the loop here - are archetypes class specific or they actually the PF2 class-agnostic viable replacement for prestige and I really should give PF2 a look?
PF1e archetypes are similar to subclasses - many functionally are - but are more about using one class as a base and replacing the parts you don’t want with parts of other classes you do want. Each archetype is linked to a specific class (which contributed to PF1e’s bloat), but you can stack any that don’t affect the same class features, and most classes have equivalent archetypes - for example, nearly all the non-companion classes have an archetype to replace something with an animal companion, most of the casters have a martial archetype and the martials a caster archetype etc. You can still multiclass on top and add archetypes to the new class(es), but they’re not quite class agnostic so I guess I can see why you wouldn’t like them.
PF2es archetypes/dedication feats are fully class agnostic replacements for PF1e archetypes/3.x prestige classes/multiclassing in general - you take them in place of class feats, and have to take a certain number from the same archetype before you can choose a new one. Medic is very popular because feats like battle medicine and ward medic lets any character replace a dedicated healer. Because of PF2es feat-centric design your initial choice of class gives you quite a loose framework of abilities to choose from, which you can then expand with dedications in more agnostic directions, like healing, duel wielding, archaeology, or becoming a lich.
No, archetypes are not subclasses. They’re a whole system of character modifications, most of which can be taken by any character as long as they meet the prerequisites. They usually modify some base element of your class (eg the Flexible Spellcaster archetype changes how casters select their spells, use their spell slots, and how many spells they get). There are a subset of archetypes (Class Archetypes) which are locked to specific classes, and which more deeply alter the class’s base abilities. The changes can be quite significant. This is where the presteige classes are rearing their heads.
Yes, prestige classes were one of the things contributing to bloat and power creep, especially as they weren’t even a particularly elegant solution to the problem they were solving - archetypes actually let you do mixed or more specific character ideas in the way prestige classes were meant to, and dedications open that customisation even further. As much as I love 3.x I’m not blind to its many failings.
I’m not either, I just don’t think prestige classes were the failure. Yes, later prestige were one way power creep and bloat happened, but they aren’t inherent to the state.
That being said, I must admit I’ve only dabbled in PF1 very briefly, so I guess I need to ask for clarity - are archetypes different than subclasses? It was my understand (again, from very far outside) that that was just what PF2 was calling subclasses, and if so, that’s a very different thing than a prestige class in my mind. A part of the appeal of prestige classes to me is worldbuilding groups built of a prestige classes made up of many different classes; I love that Arcane Trickster might have wizard levels, or sorcerer levels, or bard levels, etc… So maybe I’m just out of the loop here - are archetypes class specific or they actually the PF2 class-agnostic viable replacement for prestige and I really should give PF2 a look?
PF1e archetypes are similar to subclasses - many functionally are - but are more about using one class as a base and replacing the parts you don’t want with parts of other classes you do want. Each archetype is linked to a specific class (which contributed to PF1e’s bloat), but you can stack any that don’t affect the same class features, and most classes have equivalent archetypes - for example, nearly all the non-companion classes have an archetype to replace something with an animal companion, most of the casters have a martial archetype and the martials a caster archetype etc. You can still multiclass on top and add archetypes to the new class(es), but they’re not quite class agnostic so I guess I can see why you wouldn’t like them.
PF2es archetypes/dedication feats are fully class agnostic replacements for PF1e archetypes/3.x prestige classes/multiclassing in general - you take them in place of class feats, and have to take a certain number from the same archetype before you can choose a new one. Medic is very popular because feats like battle medicine and ward medic lets any character replace a dedicated healer. Because of PF2es feat-centric design your initial choice of class gives you quite a loose framework of abilities to choose from, which you can then expand with dedications in more agnostic directions, like healing, duel wielding, archaeology, or becoming a lich.
No, archetypes are not subclasses. They’re a whole system of character modifications, most of which can be taken by any character as long as they meet the prerequisites. They usually modify some base element of your class (eg the Flexible Spellcaster archetype changes how casters select their spells, use their spell slots, and how many spells they get). There are a subset of archetypes (Class Archetypes) which are locked to specific classes, and which more deeply alter the class’s base abilities. The changes can be quite significant. This is where the presteige classes are rearing their heads.