Since Trump’s election, gun groups catering to progressives and people of color report a surge in interest as they look to defend themselves in a country that, to them, feels increasingly unstable.
Since Trump’s election, gun groups catering to progressives and people of color report a surge in interest as they look to defend themselves in a country that, to them, feels increasingly unstable.
For almost my entire life, I never thought I’d own a gun. Now I do. You definitely need to practice with it at a range of your choosing, and keep practicing. I didn’t start carrying until after I’d been to the range a dozen times. I still don’t carry every time I go out. I don’t pretend to be any kind of expert, but I’m happy to talk about what I do know if ever you’re interested.
Something I’ve noticed: carrying makes me extremely polite. Because if I have to draw, I need to already have been doing everything right, or I’m going to prison. Even if I’m totally in the right, don’t even get charged with anything, the aftermath of such a situation would be life-changing, in a very bad way. There is no good outcome to an imminent threat to life or limb; being armed gives me the chance of choosing the least bad one.
I saved this comment from u/jlbraun about 13 years ago (would link to the source comment but fuck that site):
As a gun owner, you have to be cool-headed, moreso than the police ever have to be.
You do not start shit, act aggressively, flip the bird, roll your eyes, talk shit, or even raise your voice. To anyone. Ever.
A combat instructor (who happened to be Buddhist and a Marine) once said to me: "From now on, if no one’s life is on the line, you will lose every argument. You are always wrong. You are sorry for impinging on their day. You will apologize and apologize again. You will back the fuck down. You will put your tail between your legs. You will let them talk shit about your ladyfriend. You will let them call your mother a bitch and a whore and your dad a bastard. You have no ego. "
“You do all this because if you are the one to start a fight, by default that fight now has a gun in it, and if you start losing, you’re going to pull it and kill him. And even if you don’t go to jail because you could convince the jury that it was self-defense, you’re going to have to live with the fact that you could have saved someone’s life and yet you let your ego kill someone.”
“You are not the police, so don’t act like them. Though all of you [civilians] are better shots than the police, you do not have the training, the continuum of force policy, or a union plus free lawyers protecting you if you screw up.”
ed: He also said: “but after backing down and trying to apologize, if at any time you then feel your life or that of a loved one is in danger, put three rounds into his [cardiothoracic] vault, call the police, give a statement, go home, and sleep like a baby. You did all you could for your attacker, and he was the one that made the final decision to kill himself.”
This is the only part I strongly disagree with
I actually have seen someone ask a lawyer about this. The answer the lawyer gave was:
I modified step 2 slightly, this was from back before there were cameras everywhere so you probably need to be more mindful of that. Don’t do anything that makes you look guilty, definitely nothing that makes you look dishonest. But for fuck’s sake don’t just “give a statement” if you just killed somebody.
I was just sharing that comment to demonstrate a proper mindset and wasn’t intending it to be an actual guide anyone should follow - but you’re definitely right. A good carry permit class will cover what is recommend to do and say if you’re ever involved in an incident.
Yeah. I mean you might be fine. If the cops show up, you explain what happened and you didn’t do anything wrong, and everything checks out, you might get to go home and the detective might call you the next day just to close out the loop and you’ll be fine. But… do you want to bet the rest of your life on it working out that way?
Again, be polite. As a matter of realpolitik it is extremely important that you not fit into the “hostile suspect who just killed somebody” bubble. But, also, while you’re being polite and getting access to your lawyer as quickly as possible so you can clear the air and give you reasonable statement to them, it’s still Shut the Fuck Up Friday. You have no idea what the cops and prosecutors may decide to read into what single sentence you happened to randomly blurt out while your blood is still pounding in your ears.
Plus what if they assailant turns out to be an off duty cop or someone else connected to the violence industry?
You likely have no idea who you just killed and who’s coming to investigate it. Shut the fuck up and let a lawyer talk.
I saw a bodycam video once where some cops were attempting to speak with a woman who had signs of mental illness who was alone in the house with a small child. One of her relatives was alarmed by this situation, called the cops, and a couple cops were now trying to retrieve the child from the house calmly, without success.
The sergeant showed up, said maybe it was a fake custody situation, said maybe someone was in the country illegally, yelled at the woman who had called the police, and had everyone leave.
Once the cops left, the woman he had yelled at tried to go in the house and resolve things herself, the mentally ill woman physically attacked her, and the cops came back and long story short it all got sorted out. The sergeant actually apologized to the woman for being an “asshole” in his words. Sure. But also, the situation could easily have ended with a dead kid or the woman who called the cops getting shot or something.
Bottom line: Yes. There are plenty of good cops out there, don’t listen to Lemmy about it. But there are also plenty who are incompetent or it’s just not a good day for them. Don’t just give a goddamned statement.
100%. Holster your firearm, say where it is, allow the police to disarm you. Point out witnesses. You’ll certainly need to identify yourself with name and date of birth. Say nothing else, especially when your adrenaline is up: talk to a lawyer.
I’ve done shooting at the range a few times. I know the physical mechanics, I’m talking about knowing what to do and how to react in a situation where people are killing each other or might start killing each other. Like a lot of things, it seems straightforward until you’re in it, and then all of a sudden it really doesn’t.
Like I feel like even if I did one of those “tactical situation” training weekends or something, I wouldn’t really like that gave me anything about what I actually need. What I need is how to make the right decisions. And, like I was saying in the other comments, I don’t feel like gunfire is even really any kind of solution to what I see now as the most urgent active physical threat to my safety. If it was a mob of Proud Boys? I mean, maybe. But on the other hand I probably don’t have a mob’s worth of bullets.
Again, maybe I’m wrong in all this, maybe I will regret. It’s hard to say. Maybe I will regret staying in the country at all. Let’s see.
I’ve been in a couple life or death situations in my life. One of them is a “holy shit” story. Anyone who has never been in a situation like that but thinks they know how they’ll react in one—doesn’t. You can’t predict it until you’re in it. You’ll be terrified and not thinking straight no matter how you react.
I’ve bought some snap caps (dummy rounds) so that I can practice draw, rack, aim, trigger in the house. (They don’t let you draw at the range.)
Yeah, I don’t have an answer for that one. Most people probably don’t. My logic for getting a gun was “If you find yourself in a situation where you wish you had a gun, it’s too late.” I have no expectation that I’ll need a gun anytime very soon, although the wind can change direction in a hurry. But I do have an expectation that I’ll need a gun eventually, and if that’s true, I should have one now so that I can practice with it.
Yeah, I feel you on that. You’re not wrong.