I upvoted, but not always. With the CLI you know exactly if you installing from core/extra (which you don’t usually need to check PKGBUILD) and executing as privileged, compared to AUR which you either install manually or use an AUR package manager like YAY which strongly discourages running as priviliged, and offers checking PKGBUILD on both install and update.
For example, Pamac doesn’t show this - or at least didn’t back when I used it on Manjaro.
Counterpoint: As an above average Windows user (I know enough to have built computers, so at least a little more than the normal Windows/Mac user), after reading your comment I raised both my arms over my head to make sure I wasn’t having a stroke.
Obviously, I’ve never used Linux and so don’t know the basics of the internals (and I was never one to mess with the CMD line), but I’d be willing to bet money that 75% of Windows users would look at you like you’re possessed if you said that to them, and that’s why a GUI is so important for the average user. Easily 50% of users don’t even know that “run as administrator” exists or what it does.
Building a pc has no bearing on what a programm does or how some software works. With win11 as a tech savy person i alwas struggle to find where to do things that i knew in the old gui. Windows isnt better because of gui. Its just that people always used it and know where stuff is. The next generation of kids that grew up on phones will not know how to do things in windows. Learning a console command is not more difficult than knowing a gui. The only hard part is knowing what program is used for what purpose, if you have no idea that pacman is your package manager you cant write pacman -h for the help text but the same is true with guis, if you dont know the icon for your purpose you cant run it. The biggest problem i see with people is that they just dont want to read something. I have people who were developing apps for/on windows before and if they get a error in the linux console they dont read it at all and just put sudo in front of it or ask chatgpt.
I brought up PC building because it gave me a better understanding of how a PC works and I know how to troubleshoot in large part thanks to it, which puts me in the 50% of users who could be considered “above average.”
I think for the average to below average user, learning console commands is much more intimidating than learning a GUI. Hell, I’d even bump that up to a majority of users who are scared off by the concept. Programming is often seen as a form of magic by those who don’t know how to program. I agree that Windows isn’t better because of its GUI (especially with how it’s gotten more obtuse with each new version) and that most people are just used to it, but I think a GUI is also inherently easier for more people to learn. Learning commands is more akin to learning a new language (new words with different meanings that probably require a certain mindset in order to comprehend as a whole - learning a new skill) while a GUI should (keyword there, one Microsoft has forgotten) be fairly intuitive to navigate with a consistent design language and interface. I use Blender, and while the vast majority of useful tools are accessible via shortcut keys as well as the UI, people need to keep an image of a keyboard with all the shortcuts mapped out because, my God, it’s a lot to remember.
Basically, I agree that a GUI isn’t fundamentally better than a console, but the original post was from the perspective of the average user, and I think that a GUI is more accessible for the average user than a console. I think a well designed GUI is why Windows took off in the way that it did and why Apple has the staying power that it does. It’s important to remember that 50% of users are considered above average, but that means that the other 50% are below average.
Personally, I’m prepping a fairly major upgrade for my computer that includes a new SSD that I’m going to dual boot Bazzite on instead of switching to Windows 11 (at least until I can migrate everything to Bazzite, then I intend to kick Microsoft to the wayside), and apart from the increasing compatibility of games with Linux and Valve’s work in that area, I attribute even considering Linux to things like the immutable distros and flatpak. I know how to tinker, but I don’t want to have to do that with my daily driver. I get enough of that from my 3d printer!
I get what you mean but i still think that there isnt a difference. All the “intuitive” stuff on guis is just stuff you learn as you would learn a cli program. The discette for saving isnt intuitive most people have never held one in their hands. Media player keys? Well you dont just know that double vertical bars will pause and triangle will play. People find gui more intuitive because they already spent a lot of time learning it. Once you learn “cli” you will have the same experience when doing something new.
Typing a word into the consome is far from programming. Missclicking on a gui is far easyer than typing a whole other word than you wanted to use.
Sounds more like a computer education deficiency problem. I actually think that regardless of which OS a person uses, learning the difference between source code and executables, and getting some practice building software from source is something that should be incorporated into elementary school.
Basic commandline skills too. And I’m not even good at doing things in a terminal.
Sounds more like a computer education deficiency problem.
One hundred and ten percent right. But it’s not something that’s going to go away any time soon, and the older generations will never get over as a whole, so it’s something that we just have to account for when talking about the average user. The average American reads at, what, a 7th grade reading level? And 50% of people are below average.
error: target not found: librewolf-binIt’s in the AUR.
And this is why using a GUI is superior for most people.
I upvoted, but not always. With the CLI you know exactly if you installing from core/extra (which you don’t usually need to check PKGBUILD) and executing as privileged, compared to AUR which you either install manually or use an AUR package manager like YAY which strongly discourages running as priviliged, and offers checking PKGBUILD on both install and update.
For example, Pamac doesn’t show this - or at least didn’t back when I used it on Manjaro.
Counterpoint: As an above average Windows user (I know enough to have built computers, so at least a little more than the normal Windows/Mac user), after reading your comment I raised both my arms over my head to make sure I wasn’t having a stroke.
Obviously, I’ve never used Linux and so don’t know the basics of the internals (and I was never one to mess with the CMD line), but I’d be willing to bet money that 75% of Windows users would look at you like you’re possessed if you said that to them, and that’s why a GUI is so important for the average user. Easily 50% of users don’t even know that “run as administrator” exists or what it does.
Building a pc has no bearing on what a programm does or how some software works. With win11 as a tech savy person i alwas struggle to find where to do things that i knew in the old gui. Windows isnt better because of gui. Its just that people always used it and know where stuff is. The next generation of kids that grew up on phones will not know how to do things in windows. Learning a console command is not more difficult than knowing a gui. The only hard part is knowing what program is used for what purpose, if you have no idea that pacman is your package manager you cant write pacman -h for the help text but the same is true with guis, if you dont know the icon for your purpose you cant run it. The biggest problem i see with people is that they just dont want to read something. I have people who were developing apps for/on windows before and if they get a error in the linux console they dont read it at all and just put sudo in front of it or ask chatgpt.
I brought up PC building because it gave me a better understanding of how a PC works and I know how to troubleshoot in large part thanks to it, which puts me in the 50% of users who could be considered “above average.”
I think for the average to below average user, learning console commands is much more intimidating than learning a GUI. Hell, I’d even bump that up to a majority of users who are scared off by the concept. Programming is often seen as a form of magic by those who don’t know how to program. I agree that Windows isn’t better because of its GUI (especially with how it’s gotten more obtuse with each new version) and that most people are just used to it, but I think a GUI is also inherently easier for more people to learn. Learning commands is more akin to learning a new language (new words with different meanings that probably require a certain mindset in order to comprehend as a whole - learning a new skill) while a GUI should (keyword there, one Microsoft has forgotten) be fairly intuitive to navigate with a consistent design language and interface. I use Blender, and while the vast majority of useful tools are accessible via shortcut keys as well as the UI, people need to keep an image of a keyboard with all the shortcuts mapped out because, my God, it’s a lot to remember.
Basically, I agree that a GUI isn’t fundamentally better than a console, but the original post was from the perspective of the average user, and I think that a GUI is more accessible for the average user than a console. I think a well designed GUI is why Windows took off in the way that it did and why Apple has the staying power that it does. It’s important to remember that 50% of users are considered above average, but that means that the other 50% are below average.
Personally, I’m prepping a fairly major upgrade for my computer that includes a new SSD that I’m going to dual boot Bazzite on instead of switching to Windows 11 (at least until I can migrate everything to Bazzite, then I intend to kick Microsoft to the wayside), and apart from the increasing compatibility of games with Linux and Valve’s work in that area, I attribute even considering Linux to things like the immutable distros and flatpak. I know how to tinker, but I don’t want to have to do that with my daily driver. I get enough of that from my 3d printer!
I get what you mean but i still think that there isnt a difference. All the “intuitive” stuff on guis is just stuff you learn as you would learn a cli program. The discette for saving isnt intuitive most people have never held one in their hands. Media player keys? Well you dont just know that double vertical bars will pause and triangle will play. People find gui more intuitive because they already spent a lot of time learning it. Once you learn “cli” you will have the same experience when doing something new.
Typing a word into the consome is far from programming. Missclicking on a gui is far easyer than typing a whole other word than you wanted to use.
Sounds more like a computer education deficiency problem. I actually think that regardless of which OS a person uses, learning the difference between source code and executables, and getting some practice building software from source is something that should be incorporated into elementary school.
Basic commandline skills too. And I’m not even good at doing things in a terminal.
One hundred and ten percent right. But it’s not something that’s going to go away any time soon, and the older generations will never get over as a whole, so it’s something that we just have to account for when talking about the average user. The average American reads at, what, a 7th grade reading level? And 50% of people are below average.
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