Time for more users to adopt GrapheneOS
When we were young adults and couldn’t buy our own booze, we made it. Let’s do something like that here.
That is what F-Droid would be, on Android. If it survives…
Of course, we have SailfishOS, postmarketOS, and other small ones, too.
Damn I was not nearly that based at 20. And given that you’re on a Canadian instance and this is about the UK, I’m assuming you’re talking more like 16-17…
My Apple account is probably old enough to vote…
Why is there no privacy respecting solution for age verification? Like the government giving you some sort of token that says you’re over 18 and that’s it?
What if I told you that by regulation, the EU age verification system has to be anonymous and that it’s only the AUKUS countries that are moving forward in a way where anonymity is “a nice to have”.
Denmark’s system, which is a front-runner implementation in the EU, is going to be fully ZKP.
And yes it’s basically built with tokens.
You identify with a government system in an app. The services issues you signed tokens that are anonymous. You hand these anonymous tokens over to the sites that demand proof of age.
Anyone have a more in-depth technical description of how that works? I’m interested.
That sounds great. I don’t follow the topic closely (probably I should), so wasn’t aware of these developments. This should be brought up in all discussions about age verification, so everyone knows there are better options.
Some people will feel that it’s not ideal, as you still have to trust the government, opposed to full anonymity, but that is a bit of a separate problem.
Because its not about age verification, its about tracking and controlling you and making a privacy respecting solution isn’t compatible with that.
So there should be a rebuttal demanding a privacy respecting age verification token, instead of just arguing against age verification, which technically does have a point. This way you disable their excuse to sneak in the other things.
No, we still need to be against it. I said tracking and controlling, not just tracking.
They are already blocking resources that shouldn’t be blocked from youth, and even a privacy centric method would still let them do that, and then expand it to anything at a whim in the future.
Because then you can share the token and everyone can use it
I’m sure a more robust solution is possible though.
Personal ids can also be used by non-owners, not much different than this theoretic age verification token. But yeah, ideally it would have an security layer to sufficiently confirm ownership.
Ah tbh I just realised that with the tokens being unique you could still limit accounts per token to 1, achieving the same effect as using real ID.
There is!, one of the officially recognised and approved ways is credit card verification, however afaik only steam is doing that.
i’ve seen screenshots of ios users being verified due to having their credit cards as payment methods tied to their name, which is a hell of a lot better than an ID
I mean a dedicated, government issued age verification token that doesn’t reveal any data to the third party other than you are allowed access age wise.
Teens can travel alone and setup their phone in France or Ireland, or by their phone from a dealer. All the cool kids will have free phones and be on snapchat, forcing everybody else to follow suit.
This is what happens when your phone is no longer YOUR phone
It’s literally a government mandate, they can’t not do it without leaving the market
And of all the big names, I trust Apple the most to not give my shit to The Man
Apple is the man. Google is the man. The men claiming they are the men are just little pocket puppets.
Open source software like GrapheneOS is the only software you should ever trust to not be government spyware.
Tim Apple and Don Orange
Dude, apple IS the man
Apple has done a fantastic job surrounding their privacy reputation. Problem is, they absolutely bent the knee and kissed the ring.
The only way out is either going with custom roms on an android or a Linux phone, … anything along those lines (you know, IT stuff that let’s you actually do stuff). Or don’t participate.
IT GETS TO A POINT
Looks like the ways they’re doing this is via credit card or account age. I wanted to keep my current phone until it died before switching to something else but fuck me, who knows what nonsense they’ll make us do in the near future.
no problem, I’ll just use apps from outside of the App Store, right?
You could, if you lived in the EU :)
The UK government is so god damn dumb.
evil*
Both
they arent dumb tho. this is the dystopia they want to build.
For who? Themselves? Are their lives so miserable they just want to see people suffer?
if a phone is tied to a svc acct like a telco provider- age verification should be automatic as THAT provider cannot open an acct for a child.
FUCKING THANK YOU!
I’m not in favour of any of the age restriction stuff UK government is doing.
Good argument, but:
Phones in the UK can be bought without a contract and untied to any network.
Pay as you go SIM cards can be bought without a contract.
Credit cards used to make purchases online require users to be 18 or over. Debit cards on the other hand can be issued to those under 18 (but a bank account will require evidence of ID, address, age). https://www.gohenry.com/uk/blog/financial-education/what-age-can-you-get-a-debit-card-in-the-uk
can a debit card be created by someone under 18? ie does a parent have to do it then give johnny a card? can a bodega owner sell a prepaid to a minor, and can prepaids be used?
just wondering where up the chain the responsibility lies. i’m all for corps being held to task, but also parents. if i handed my kid a phone it was my responsibility.
now he had phones that he acquired. i saw them. so i know it is largely irrelevant my thoughts on chain of concern.
in short: this is a terrible tar pit of gov horseshit sold in the “protect the kids” camp but really is “build a bigger fascist state db…”
A parent can do the age verification captcha for Johnny. All of this is bullshit once they start thinking any of this will stop kids who have the help of an adult (actually, already is imo). Anyone ever hear of kids getting adults to buy alcohol for them in the past?
Wow, thats fucked. I hope Australia doesn’t decide to do this as well. This shit is happening so quickly at the moment
I think they did this first, at least they passed the law first. Our “left center” government in action.
me too but i’m not overly optimistic. i don’t think there is a strong enough culture of anti-surveillance
> can’t have apps without an account
> cave have an account without a loicenseWill this finally kill off the “Apple is private enough” mantra I always hear?
unfortunately, that is now how cults work.
Mixed feelings about this.
However, ethical questions aside, and from a purely legal conformation standpoint, if the phone validates the user is over 18 and passes only that info as a token to whatever application or website requests it, then it’s a good implementation. It means elimination of multiple validation requirements, minimal transfer of data to third parties, fewer sources holding personal data, etc. Whether it works that way remains to be seen.
purely legal conformation standpoint
It’s still stupid even if it’s required by law.
The technical implementation, or the law itself?
Law itself
Yeah, no doubt.
I haven’t read this particular law. But one proposed in Colorado still requires service providers to look for other indicators of age and override the one reported by the OS.
It’s always funny when Apple fanboys try to whitewash its brand.
“Apple is the most private mobile operating system there is that cares for its users that stands up to governments” until it doesn’t but that’s still great because it is how it is and apple has to obey laws and its fine because they hide their involvement with feds so well with marketing, and the cult accepts whatever they do, so they get a pass.
Have you tried not being a cult member to manufacture consent for corporations?
That or PR agencies are picking up fediverse to push people into being docile consumers.
Not a single word in this rant has any relevance to my comment.
Kinda just sounds like you were looking for an excuse to aggressively rant at someone. I don’t know how you came away thinking they were an apple fanboy after reading that comment full of ifs and general skepticism.
