Title.

  • FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    19
    ·
    3 days ago

    I’d argue he isn’t a great leader; he is a successful one. He gambles, he takes chances, and is swashbucklingly lucky throughout his career, even when he gets punished, until he meets and follows the lead of arguably the better leader between the two of them, Jean-Luc Picard, in the nexus.

    TOS was quite woke in its day. There is still an awful lot of sexism on that Enterprise. The treatment of Spock is quite discriminatory. You could argue his unilateral decision that appears to be salomonic more than covered by actual law or regulations to maroon Khan and company on Ceti-Alpha 5 leads directly to the death of his own son, of whose existence he didn’t really know because his mom knew better than to stay in Kirk’s orbit. While you could say that an orderly private life isn’t a prerequisite to being a great leader, I think Carol Marcus knew he’d be trouble at home and at work and that’s why she wanted out.

    He was very often in the right place at the right time and only made decisions that were later judged not to be entirely wrong. He had the charisma of a great man right until he oh-my’ed loose his mortal coil. If there had been an HR department between the music room and the colorful food cube dispensary there would have been need for the admiralty to get involved. He is a beloved character for his brazenness and faults.

    • Zonetrooper@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 days ago

      This. If Kirk has any actual positive quality, I’d say that he’s highly adaptable and skilled at ‘thinking on his feet’. This gets him out of a whole lot of trouble and lets him play fast and loose with his actions as Captain, but it also means he gets himself into a lot of trouble that a more strategic, less impulsive officer would have avoided in the first place.

      It’s telling, in my opinion, that the very first thing Starfleet does as soon as the Enterprise gets back home is rotate him off of starship command and give him an administrative position where his decisions can be reviewed, rather than assigning him on a new mission. He only manages to get himself back in command when V’ger is heading straight for Earth, and Starfleet is in “throw the kitchen sink at it” mode.

  • cecilkorik@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    11
    ·
    3 days ago

    Is he a good leader? He always came across to me as a bit of a prima donna with a napoleon complex. I’d point to Picard or Janeway as better leaders to be honest, they are both able to actually inspire their crews to become something better than they would be on their own.

  • Infrapink@thebrainbin.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    3 days ago

    I just recently started watching Star Trek, and Kirk is very unlike the memes. The most noticeable thing is that, contrary to what TV and the Internet would have you believe, he talks like a normal human being.

    As to why he is a good leader, he is competent and perceptive He always prioritises the health and safety of his crew even above his own.He never pursues romantic or sexual relations with crew members no matter how much he would like to, and takes reports of sexual harassment seriously (“Charlie X”). He doesn’t throw his weight around; while decisions are ultimately his to make, he listens to his subordinates and acts on their advice. He takes swift action, but only after diplomacy and negotiation have failed.

  • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    3 days ago

    Show era, he’s shown to be a competent captain able to make decent strategic decisions. For instance, in the episode with the cloaking Romulan Bird of Prey, Kirk creates a battle plan which is able to take advantage of deficiencies in his foe’s ship. He’s also seen caring about making sure the crew goes into battle prepared, constantly drilling the crew so they are more responsive when time matters. Kirk is also shown as able to make hard personnel decisions which end up being right in the end. Kirk takes risks and is somewhat aggressive in playing a weak hand, but that is why he was put in command. SNW even has an episode showing that Kirk’s command is better suited to certain situations over Pike.

    Movie era, Kirk isn’t as good of a captain. His crew bungle safety so bad it kills his science officer. Kirk’s rash decisions get people killed when dealing with Khan. His crew shows wild incompetence which kills a Klingon Chancellor.

    It is interesting how different the character is between the shows and the movies.

  • GreenShimada@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    3 days ago

    100% agree that he’s a very bad leader. That wasn’t his role, his role was arrogant, risk-taking playboy. Keep in mind that the TOS years were the late 60s. TOS ran at the same time as the Smothers Brothers, Green Acres, and Bewitched. Arrogant, risk-taking playboy is a prime white male media main character trope that spans generations and decades. No one likes an asshole - unless it’s YOUR asshole, then it can get shit all over and you expect someone else to clean it up. Kirk broke rules, did whatever, fought everyone and banged everyone else, and always came away a winner. THAT was his role.

    Even for the TOS movies, they tone him down into a “leader” a bit and it’s really just being the guy everyone has to listen to. It’s an ensemble of subordinates who largely do whatever, he barks demands, and because it’s a movie/show, they’re always working towards the same goal and get the job done.