Fluxer is the most promising one so far. It doesn’t have easy self-hosting yet, but it’s in development. What exists so far is pretty good though.
Yeah this is what we’re waiting for too.
Looks very exciting to self host with Tailscale/Netbird.It’s roadmap is amazing, I’m hoping it will go far
The fact that we went from Teamspeak to Skype to Discord and back to Teamspeak again is wild.
that we went from Teamspeak to Skype
Who did?
I think Skype was more on the IRC > AOL > MSN pipeline
I went from TeamSpeak to mumble
I miss Dolby Axon
In my experience, Matrix has a lot of misleading functionalities that drive people into enough of a false sense of security to out themselves.
I’m curious as to what these are, as I’m setting up a matrix server right now.
Have you looked into https://element.io/en/server-suite/community ?
I run my own server for friends and family. And there are more abd more optional addons that may have made that server suite a more sane place to start when selfhosting. I have not evaluated it tho, but thought you should know about it.
Is the idea to make it easier? Cause I am also setting up matrix atm. I don’t use kubernetes though. Or is the idea that it will be maybe perfectly aligned with the element client?
Afaik there is a docker compose as well. It is probably all of the above. Alignment with elements seems like it just by the name. And easier setupbif you want all the bells and whistles you can add onto matrix.
For some that might be a bad thingnif it exclude some clients. While other wsnt the features.Why would it exclude some clients? Just protocols?
Just based on the names. But I assume things like element call is implementable by other clients as well.
I self-host a federated Matrix server and got my family and close friends using it. They actually took to it pretty easy, and although the initial setup was a bit of a headache it’s been running smoothly for years now.
I don’t really get most of the criticisms of it. I love it.
How do you compare that to Discord? my friendgroup moved to Steam Chat, and thats… not great.
I was leaning more towards Stoat
Steam’s astonishingly less easy to configure but once it’s done it works for basic group chats when playing. It would be amazing if they hadn’t bugged screen sharing on Steam Chat, as it still works well when opened from the main Steam window.
I usually prefer chatting through Steam for anything gaming related and jumping to Matrix or even Jitsi on web for video conferencing and other matters. I’m also open to using other things such as XMPP, Delta Chat, SimpleX and so on, but Steam as a common space for PC users and Matrix for private conversations with all the useful features just hits the right balance between accesibility, reliability and privacy for me.
i really hate the lack of emotes, limited emojis, and things like posting links and photos doesn’t work for us nearly as well as discord, with the links often not loading, or the images coming in rotated.
it works, but it feels like an afterthought, which i guess it is.
Lack of emotes/emojis, broken links and rotated pictures? I have never experienced anything remotely similar on Steam or Matrix. Is it a .gif search bar or stickers what you might be missing?
On steam, not matrix.
I just don’t see any emojis or gifs via steam chat, other than their own ones you need to buy from their store.
Yeah. I’ve got more than enough of those on Steam for free, but that’s mostly because of interacting with it’s community events or playing games there. You should still be able to use regular emojis from your keyboard too (using hotkeys or copying and pasting them from elsewhere).
fair enough, i could search for them… just feels a lot more akward then most other ways, when they are integrated into the keyboard or chat. even here on Lemmy, there is an emoji button!
Stoat seems to be the one my friend group is most interested in, currently I’m waiting to see which one is better in the next couple of months or so.
I spent quite a lot of effort getting Stoat up and running because they aren’t working on the selfhosted version, only to get a nice email from the German government that my server was running an outdated version of React with RCE vulnerabilities. Nuked that stack at 3am.
Also I fixed their Tenor integration to be provider agnostic so the self-hoster could choose a different gif provider like klipy (Tenor turned off their API so gif search in Stoat is broken), tried to contribute that one small change back to the main project, immediately rejected because “we have no plans for klipy support”.
Not worth the effort, IMO.
Weird how they are good at digging up the past relationship between the matrix team prior donators with the mosad. but failed to mention not even once that matrix’s biggest advantage is its federated nature.
So imagine you have a selfhosted matrix server and you want to invite a friend over for a chat but this friend already has an account at his other friend’s server. in Matrix he doesn’t have to make an account on every server their interlocutor is in, he just sends his messages, like its done over email, or here on lemmy (fediverse). this is an advantage other software like fluxer of stoat don’t have. and I doubt they will able to add it anytime soon, as the work needed is probably huge and would need years of work to make a proper secure e2e federate messaging solution.
Guy literally told people the criteria he was using, one of which was searching for things like that because that’s the reason for the video in the first place, the Discord exodus due to deep state ties. He admits his knowledge is limited. Weird how hard it is for some people to see things from someone else’s point of view.
EDIT: changed to more accurately represent how Matrix operates.
The issue is that due to the way Matrix is structured, it essentially spreads copies of unencrypted metadata to every instance participating in those rooms, So it’s federated, but difficult to actually keep metadata from being spread around
even if you don’t federate with the main Matrix server, if any server you do federate with dies, it’ll get spread there. You’d have to be extremely cautious who you federate with to avoid that, or not federate at all, which defeats the purpose.As an alternative, Movim, which uses XMPP and is also federated, does not spread meta data around like that.
I’ve had matrix and element set up on my personal domain for a while, but I’ve only used them for evaluation so far. The system and network resources used are HUGE…
I’ve been setting up movim and a seperate xmpp server for a little while, and I have some initial opinions:
- xmpp (prosody) appears to be much better optimised than matrix (synapse)
- matrix and element are much easier to set up
- movim is a huge PITA to deploy yourself (especially in a container… you’re basically on your own at the moment)
- xmpp requires tcp ports and ssl certs that should be easy to set up… unless you’re on a cgnat network. Matrix can be set up through a cloudflare tunnel with https no problem, but xmpp requires some networking elbow grease.
- the mandatory certificates probably make the xmpp network safer?
- Even with the mautrix discord bridge copying the exact layout of discord channels into element, movim seems more familiar to me. I haven’t really had enough time to evaluate movim, but it seems like it’s trying to appeal to discord users, and element is clearly not. Element feels like a well funded enterprise tool that is doing its own thing.
- commet (with 2 m’s) chat is a very faithful discord clone for matrix, but it’s very barebones.
Either way, I am gonna deploy both and let my friends/discord channel users decide what works best.
I’m rooting for xmpp at the moment, but I will be happy with anything that is self hosted, encrypted and federated.
Hopefully I don’t end up having to maintain both protocols with a bridge!
He mentioned IRC but skipped it, probably thinking it’s still text only. However there are now web clients that can display inline images, url preview, persistent chat and push notifications. To me it’s the most KISS solution, as it’s super easy to setup and self-host.
In order for this to work, one needs an IRC server and a place to host the web client’s server. That’s it. I use The Lounge but there are others like Convos or ObsidianIRC.
Currently hosting a couple of zulip instances for communities that had been on discord. I really like the way it handles topics/threading and they make hosting a breeze. I reported in an upgrade recently and it was < 30 minutes between me reporting it and getting code to solve my issue pushed to the repos. Wild.
10/10 recommend if voice/video are not a focus.
Zulip is confusing as hell to use.
How?
I manage two Zulip servers so I’m interested of knowing how it is perceived by outsiders.
To me (to us) it is quite simple, you write in the topic with the correct title, fediverse stuff goes in fediverse stuff, video games in video games, etc etc.
If someone makes a mistake, any user on a PC can move the message to the correct topic (doesn’t work with the mobile app).
Because you end up with 5 gazillion threads and trying to find the one you were conversing in previously is like finding a needle in a haystack.
