China, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos are all examples of socialist countries today. China alone lifted over 800 million people out of poverty in recent decades. Compare that to the capitalist paradise in India.
China is a terrible example of a socialist economy, and the others are still mired by poverty. One could claim that is due to capitalist sabotage, but I don’t think it does socialism any favors to use them as success stories.
China is in fact an excellent example of a socialist country. Here’s a detailed explanation for you that’s well sourced and referenced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7Th2aV0wM
I’m going to level with you, I don’t have time to watch an hour long video for a topic that is likely just government-approved talking points.
In practice, I just don’t see any difference in the way the mega rich in China control society, just as they do in the rest of the western world. There is too much aesthetic reverence for the West in the upper eschelons of Chinese society.
It is just as dystopic as the West with the way workers are used as fodder by megacorps with no regard for their well-being. Any country with such widespread income inequality cannot call itself a socialist success story.
You used a lot of words to say that you don’t actually know anything about China and are unwilling to educate yourself. I guess just keep on believing your chauvinist fantasies about a country you know nothing about.
Ah yes good old trust me bro, but even if you did it’s pretty clear that plenty of people living in China disagree with you. Plenty of people live in US and can’t define what capitalism or socialism is either. What makes you an authority?
You’re right. A lot of people in China would probably disagree with me. But a lot of people in China lack the basic critical thinking skills to even question their circumstances, because secondary schools (if you even have the means to attend one) don’t like students who ask too many questions.
A lot of people in the US would also disagree with me politically, because they think they were chosen by Jesus to oppress brown people and spread glorious capitalism around the world. But that doesn’t make them right either.
I am a Marxist. I’ve done my homework. What do you want me to do, start quoting Zizek or Gramsci to pass your shitty litmus test?
China is an experiment in socialism gone awry, because like the rest of the world, those with power lust over capital. I lived in a T3 city in China where things were relatively quiet, but flew out to visit a friend way down in Shenzhen periodically. It’s hard to see billionaire kids racing their Ferraris down the street there while the poor masses look down from the windows of their destitute coffin house apartments and think that this is somehow a socialist success story.
China is as capital-driven as any other world power. The government just likes to participate in it a bit more directly.
But sure, you’re the expert, not me, so I’m sure this is all just capitalist propaganda intended to denounce great Mao zhuxi and sabotage the workers’ revolution.
That’s some racist shit buddy. People in China lack basic critical skills to question their circumstances, it takes a white savior to tell them what’s up. Do you even listen to yourself? You’d not a Marxist, you’re a racist.
Not really, Nordic model is capitalist because the capital owning class owns the means of production and holds power in society. Nordic model has generous social services and a social safety net, but that of itself does not make it socialist. A socialist model implies that it is the working class that holds power and that means of production are under a mix of public and cooperative ownership. This is the model that all western countries fight against.
You previously mentioned China. And China do have big companies like NetEase. Are such companies under a mix of public and cooperative ownershiprs? How it differs from IKEA? Not arguing, just trying to understand.
The difference with China is that capitalists don’t run the government and all the core economy is publicly owned. I can highly recommend this book discussing why China is fundamentally socialist
I find that comparing how China and India developed after WW2 is illustrative as well. India took the capitalist route while China remained socialist, and the difference today is stark. India has incredible amount of poverty and the situation continues to get worse, meanwhile China is responsible for the biggest poverty elimination programs in the world. The fact that China is developing differently from capitalist nations is a good indicator that something different is happening there.
China, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos are all examples of socialist countries today. China alone lifted over 800 million people out of poverty in recent decades. Compare that to the capitalist paradise in India.
China is a terrible example of a socialist economy, and the others are still mired by poverty. One could claim that is due to capitalist sabotage, but I don’t think it does socialism any favors to use them as success stories.
China is in fact an excellent example of a socialist country. Here’s a detailed explanation for you that’s well sourced and referenced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7Th2aV0wM
I’m going to level with you, I don’t have time to watch an hour long video for a topic that is likely just government-approved talking points.
In practice, I just don’t see any difference in the way the mega rich in China control society, just as they do in the rest of the western world. There is too much aesthetic reverence for the West in the upper eschelons of Chinese society.
It is just as dystopic as the West with the way workers are used as fodder by megacorps with no regard for their well-being. Any country with such widespread income inequality cannot call itself a socialist success story.
You used a lot of words to say that you don’t actually know anything about China and are unwilling to educate yourself. I guess just keep on believing your chauvinist fantasies about a country you know nothing about.
My man, I lived in China. You don’t have to sell me this bullshit.
Ah yes good old trust me bro, but even if you did it’s pretty clear that plenty of people living in China disagree with you. Plenty of people live in US and can’t define what capitalism or socialism is either. What makes you an authority?
You’re right. A lot of people in China would probably disagree with me. But a lot of people in China lack the basic critical thinking skills to even question their circumstances, because secondary schools (if you even have the means to attend one) don’t like students who ask too many questions.
A lot of people in the US would also disagree with me politically, because they think they were chosen by Jesus to oppress brown people and spread glorious capitalism around the world. But that doesn’t make them right either.
I am a Marxist. I’ve done my homework. What do you want me to do, start quoting Zizek or Gramsci to pass your shitty litmus test?
China is an experiment in socialism gone awry, because like the rest of the world, those with power lust over capital. I lived in a T3 city in China where things were relatively quiet, but flew out to visit a friend way down in Shenzhen periodically. It’s hard to see billionaire kids racing their Ferraris down the street there while the poor masses look down from the windows of their destitute coffin house apartments and think that this is somehow a socialist success story.
China is as capital-driven as any other world power. The government just likes to participate in it a bit more directly.
But sure, you’re the expert, not me, so I’m sure this is all just capitalist propaganda intended to denounce great Mao zhuxi and sabotage the workers’ revolution.
That’s some racist shit buddy. People in China lack basic critical skills to question their circumstances, it takes a white savior to tell them what’s up. Do you even listen to yourself? You’d not a Marxist, you’re a racist.
Does countries of Nordic model count? I heard good things about them.
Not really, Nordic model is capitalist because the capital owning class owns the means of production and holds power in society. Nordic model has generous social services and a social safety net, but that of itself does not make it socialist. A socialist model implies that it is the working class that holds power and that means of production are under a mix of public and cooperative ownership. This is the model that all western countries fight against.
Thank you, this does makes sense!
You previously mentioned China. And China do have big companies like NetEase. Are such companies under a mix of public and cooperative ownershiprs? How it differs from IKEA? Not arguing, just trying to understand.
The difference with China is that capitalists don’t run the government and all the core economy is publicly owned. I can highly recommend this book discussing why China is fundamentally socialist
https://redletterspp.com/products/the-east-is-still-red
This was an excellent discussion on the subject as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7Th2aV0wM
I find that comparing how China and India developed after WW2 is illustrative as well. India took the capitalist route while China remained socialist, and the difference today is stark. India has incredible amount of poverty and the situation continues to get worse, meanwhile China is responsible for the biggest poverty elimination programs in the world. The fact that China is developing differently from capitalist nations is a good indicator that something different is happening there.
Will take a look, thank you!