Monica Lewinsky penned on op-ed Monday calling for a series of constitutional amendments, including age limits for elected officials and a ban on presidential self-pardons. In a piece in Vanity Fai…
As an example could Ford have pardoned Nixon? I think it was a mistake to do so, but I believe he should be able to.
Why would you believe that the President should be able to give a pardon to somebody like that? What’s the benefit to the American public?
If a President campaigned on marijuana reform and pardons, could they pardon folks for marijuana related crimes.
He doesn’t know those people. There is no personal conflict of interests.
I am ok with having some restrictions, maybe a review board or clearly defined method for legal challenges, but I think generally ok with the pardon power being fairly broad.
There already IS a review board. There already are clearly defined methods for legal challenges. And that has nothing to do with pardoning your buddies after they committed crimes, especially if they committed crimes FOR YOU. Trump and Nixon went against the usual process. Federal pardons are almost always only given out after a person has completed their sentence, and on recommendation of the board.
You don’t need to know someone to have a conflict of interest. A candidate running on the promise to pardon everybody for every crime if they vote for that candidate is a clear conflict of interest. Or pardoning somebody for payment.
I think https://youtu.be/6uUzrvJtZps from Bob Woodward gives an interesting view, but I think Ford himself sums it up similarly when he said,
“My conscience tells me clearly and certainly that I cannot prolong the bad dreams that continue to reopen a chapter that is closed. My conscience tells me that only I, as President, have the constitutional power to firmly shut and seal this book”
Ford believed pardoning Nixon was the best way for the country to move forward. I disagree with that decision, however I think it’s the Presidents job to make that decision. It likely cost Ford the next election.
Everything you’ve said is evidence that Ford shouldn’t have had the power to pardon Nixon.
You have read the speech, and listened to Woodward, and know all of the ramifications, and you still say you disagree with his decision. This is the reason why we have processes, such as courts. There is absolutely no need for unilateral executive power in this situation.
And importantly, you didn’t answer my only question… How does this power benefit the American public?
Ford’s excuses were that he wanted to move forward. Why don’t we just move forward with murderers, as well? I’ll answer that. It’s because usually, we like to feel justice so that we can move forward. Nixon never truly faced justice.
Ford said that the economy would suffer. That was just his guess. We’ve had almost the same thing today with Trump, and the economy isn’t suffering. So, that means that Ford was probably just wrong about that excuse.
Ford said that he wanted to have his own Presidency, instead of being overshadowed by Nixon. That was never going to happen, no matter what he did. He became President without any general vote, voting him into either Presidency or Vice Presidency. He was President only because that was what Nixon wanted. But even if that hadn’t been the case, Presidents are judged by how they respond to problems. Waving your hand and pretending the problems away doesn’t help the American public.
These were all Ford’s excuses for why he did it. But they were bad excuses. There’s simply no benefit to America to allow Presidents to do this. I consider this matter closed. As you didn’t actually answer my question, I don’t see any point in continuing. Your last comment was your chance to answer my question, but instead you gave Ford’s answers, and said that you disagreed with them. I believe that was a silly choice. But what’s done is done.
Case closed? You certainly are under no obligation to respond but I am free to continue the conversation.
The benefit to the American people is that we have a complex process with regard to legal matters. We have decided that part of that process includes pardon powers. Each branch of the government has their powers.
The legislative branch creates a law. The executive blocks it. The legislative overrides the executive. The judicial declares it unconstitutional. The legislative amends the constitution. The judicial applies the law. The executive pardons. The legislative impeaches.
Each of these require political capital. If the American people support you, change happens. If they don’t, you get booted.
I’m aware it’s not all that simple.
The executive branch has taken on more power recently (20+ years), largely due to the legislative branch refusing to act. The judicial branch has had to make ultimately correct but legally challenging decisions, again due to the legislative braches refusal to act.
A President is tasked by the American people to perform certain duties as commander in chief. To act in the American people’s benefit. Certain powers, like pardon, are also granted.
States like Georgia don’t provide their executive branch the same privilege. Should a similar process be put in place at the federal level? Possibly. Georgians put it in place. Georgians thought so. The American people? It’s worth a discussion.
Why would you believe that the President should be able to give a pardon to somebody like that? What’s the benefit to the American public?
He doesn’t know those people. There is no personal conflict of interests.
There already IS a review board. There already are clearly defined methods for legal challenges. And that has nothing to do with pardoning your buddies after they committed crimes, especially if they committed crimes FOR YOU. Trump and Nixon went against the usual process. Federal pardons are almost always only given out after a person has completed their sentence, and on recommendation of the board.
You don’t need to know someone to have a conflict of interest. A candidate running on the promise to pardon everybody for every crime if they vote for that candidate is a clear conflict of interest. Or pardoning somebody for payment.
Re Ford pardoning Nixon,
I think https://youtu.be/6uUzrvJtZps from Bob Woodward gives an interesting view, but I think Ford himself sums it up similarly when he said,
“My conscience tells me clearly and certainly that I cannot prolong the bad dreams that continue to reopen a chapter that is closed. My conscience tells me that only I, as President, have the constitutional power to firmly shut and seal this book”
https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/speeches/740060.asp
Ford believed pardoning Nixon was the best way for the country to move forward. I disagree with that decision, however I think it’s the Presidents job to make that decision. It likely cost Ford the next election.
Everything you’ve said is evidence that Ford shouldn’t have had the power to pardon Nixon.
You have read the speech, and listened to Woodward, and know all of the ramifications, and you still say you disagree with his decision. This is the reason why we have processes, such as courts. There is absolutely no need for unilateral executive power in this situation.
And importantly, you didn’t answer my only question… How does this power benefit the American public?
Ford’s excuses were that he wanted to move forward. Why don’t we just move forward with murderers, as well? I’ll answer that. It’s because usually, we like to feel justice so that we can move forward. Nixon never truly faced justice.
Ford said that the economy would suffer. That was just his guess. We’ve had almost the same thing today with Trump, and the economy isn’t suffering. So, that means that Ford was probably just wrong about that excuse.
Ford said that he wanted to have his own Presidency, instead of being overshadowed by Nixon. That was never going to happen, no matter what he did. He became President without any general vote, voting him into either Presidency or Vice Presidency. He was President only because that was what Nixon wanted. But even if that hadn’t been the case, Presidents are judged by how they respond to problems. Waving your hand and pretending the problems away doesn’t help the American public.
These were all Ford’s excuses for why he did it. But they were bad excuses. There’s simply no benefit to America to allow Presidents to do this. I consider this matter closed. As you didn’t actually answer my question, I don’t see any point in continuing. Your last comment was your chance to answer my question, but instead you gave Ford’s answers, and said that you disagreed with them. I believe that was a silly choice. But what’s done is done.
Case closed? You certainly are under no obligation to respond but I am free to continue the conversation.
The benefit to the American people is that we have a complex process with regard to legal matters. We have decided that part of that process includes pardon powers. Each branch of the government has their powers.
The legislative branch creates a law. The executive blocks it. The legislative overrides the executive. The judicial declares it unconstitutional. The legislative amends the constitution. The judicial applies the law. The executive pardons. The legislative impeaches.
Each of these require political capital. If the American people support you, change happens. If they don’t, you get booted.
I’m aware it’s not all that simple.
The executive branch has taken on more power recently (20+ years), largely due to the legislative branch refusing to act. The judicial branch has had to make ultimately correct but legally challenging decisions, again due to the legislative braches refusal to act.
A President is tasked by the American people to perform certain duties as commander in chief. To act in the American people’s benefit. Certain powers, like pardon, are also granted.
States like Georgia don’t provide their executive branch the same privilege. Should a similar process be put in place at the federal level? Possibly. Georgians put it in place. Georgians thought so. The American people? It’s worth a discussion.