yeah, a bunch of corrupted fascists and genocide supporters greedy for money who brought humanity to the bring of extinction with their wars and polluting the environment for profits winning again and staying in power would be the biggest win of your lives.
If we’re including the environment then it’s even more of a no brainer what a massive loss it would be for trump to win, he would undo and block as much as he could. Biden might not be doing enough, but at least we’re going in the right direction. Trump would make sure we go backwards.
Can I ask how old you are? Because it was absolutely nothing like it is now in 2004. The vote or die thing wasn’t literal, it was just an attempt at a making voting cool to get young people out to vote.
I’m 34. There absolutely were people talking about a fascist bush/Cheney regime in 2004. Sure things are different now, but they’re still very much the same.
I’m 34. There absolutely were people talking about a fascist bush/Cheney regime in 2004. Sure things are different now, but they’re still very much the same.
If you are 34: You were at most 10 years old when Bush won in Nov. 11, 1999, and at most 18 years old when he left office. You were a child. You didn’t vote. You really don’t know if things were “very much the same”.
“You could never understand historical events if you weren’t literally alive and a full grown voting adult to see them”
What a fucking shit take. Have you never commented on a single thing you weren’t alive for? Stop being so reactionary, not every election is “the most important in our country’s history”. Again, gimme a break.
I was also an adult in 2004, and mr_robot is correct, “Vote or Die” was just an edgy get-out-the-vote campaign to make voting cool, not a “VOTE OR WE LITERALLY ARE GOING TO DIE” call to arms against Bush. You are free to comment on things you weren’t alive or and adult for, but you have to be correct. You are just wrong here. Let it go.
The message is the same. Vote or you’ll be subjected to an increasingly authoritarian government bent on making the country worse. Regardless of how edgy you think the campaign was, we’re saying the same shit over and over. You just feel more strongly about it because you understand the context this time.
I would like to note that they only example you’ve provided to equate the two is that p-diddy used s common figurative saying in an attempt to make voting cool.
One can certainly understand things, to an extent, that happened when they were young or before they were born. But if this is the meat of your argument, let alone appearing to be the entirety of it, this is not one of those times.
Lol no that’s just what you jabronis latched onto because it was the easiest part to dispute
The messaging is the same. We’ve been saying every election is the most important election every 4 years going on decades now, in fact, here’s a slate article documenting the use of the phrase “most important election in our countries history” going back 200 years in print media.
And you know what? They were right, they were just off on the timing. Bush’s administration (and frankly Clinton’s before him, to a lesser degree) normalized a lot of more-flaunting that’s only just coming to fruition.
A disdain for the truth. A mistrust of our electoral process. Utilizing consecutive emergencies to hold on to power (also known as the Julius Caesar doctrine). Projecting the appearance of strength at any cost. Never admitting to misconduct. Fighting against (and convincing your supporters to fight against) things that would’ve previously been bipartisan just because it could help the other party politically. Overlooking malfeasance because of party alliance (and overlooking positive qualities because of disloyalty). Showboating for cable news. All of those things led directly to Donald Trump in 2016, because they were torn down piece by piece in 1996-2004.
This false equivalency doesn’t acknowledge that nations very rarely fall in one swift stroke; it’s a slow but steady erosion of the fabric of decency. And maybe you’re right this time, too; maybe Trump will surprise us all and not do the things he said he would do, like be a dictator on his first day in office or deport non-Christians or pardon convicted criminals who are loyal to him.
But what about the next guy? The one who sees the promises Trump is making and thinks, “this but unironically”? The guy who sees how far Trump has pushed the envelope and how much he’s disregarded mores and is willing to push it down the field a little bit more? What about the guy in 2032 who thinks Trump’s “first day dictatorship” didn’t go far enough? What’s to stop him?
It’s not a slippery slope fallacy when we’re actually slipping down the slope.
And we won’t fix it next time if we won’t fix it now. They’ll just keep moving the Overton Window until they’ve normalized an outright empire.
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see…”
“You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?”
“No,” said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, “nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.”
“Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.”
“I did,” said Ford. “It is.”
“So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t people get rid of the lizards?”
“It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.”
“You mean they actually vote for the lizards?”
“Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.”
“But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?”
“Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?”
“What?”
“I said,” said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, “have you got any gin?”
“I’ll look. Tell me about the lizards.”
Ford shrugged again.
“Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happened to them,” he said. “They’re completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone’s got to say it.”
“But that’s terrible,” said Arthur.
“Listen, bud,” said Ford, “if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say ‘That’s terrible’ I wouldn’t be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.”
Welcome to 2024, the year the two party system wins the elections again, peasants keep getting exploited and the rich becomes richer
The two-party system winning would suck, but not as much as Trump’s one-party system winning.
If both choices suck just pick another one, you are not supposed to vote for any of them
Absolutely, if we had fair elections that made third parties viable. We don’t and they aren’t.
Chugging lemon juice and chugging arsenic would both suck. I would much rather choose myself than leave that one up to chance.
You don’t get lemon juice if arsenic wins the election.
Yeah you aren’t guaranteed the result you want in an election.
I would choose water
As is your right.
Unfortunately you wake up to find arsenic has won.
The two party system winning over trump would truly be the biggest win of our lives.
yeah, a bunch of corrupted fascists and genocide supporters greedy for money who brought humanity to the bring of extinction with their wars and polluting the environment for profits winning again and staying in power would be the biggest win of your lives.
If we’re including the environment then it’s even more of a no brainer what a massive loss it would be for trump to win, he would undo and block as much as he could. Biden might not be doing enough, but at least we’re going in the right direction. Trump would make sure we go backwards.
If you think supporting a genocide is going in the right direction i have bad news for you
Oh so now all of the other things don’t count again? lol
Gimme a break. We said the same shit about Bush in 2004.
“Vote or die” was a huge campaign movement.
Can I ask how old you are? Because it was absolutely nothing like it is now in 2004. The vote or die thing wasn’t literal, it was just an attempt at a making voting cool to get young people out to vote.
I’m 34. There absolutely were people talking about a fascist bush/Cheney regime in 2004. Sure things are different now, but they’re still very much the same.
If you are 34: You were at most 10 years old when Bush won in Nov. 11, 1999, and at most 18 years old when he left office. You were a child. You didn’t vote. You really don’t know if things were “very much the same”.
“You could never understand historical events if you weren’t literally alive and a full grown voting adult to see them”
What a fucking shit take. Have you never commented on a single thing you weren’t alive for? Stop being so reactionary, not every election is “the most important in our country’s history”. Again, gimme a break.
I was also an adult in 2004, and mr_robot is correct, “Vote or Die” was just an edgy get-out-the-vote campaign to make voting cool, not a “VOTE OR WE LITERALLY ARE GOING TO DIE” call to arms against Bush. You are free to comment on things you weren’t alive or and adult for, but you have to be correct. You are just wrong here. Let it go.
The message is the same. Vote or you’ll be subjected to an increasingly authoritarian government bent on making the country worse. Regardless of how edgy you think the campaign was, we’re saying the same shit over and over. You just feel more strongly about it because you understand the context this time.
I would like to note that they only example you’ve provided to equate the two is that p-diddy used s common figurative saying in an attempt to make voting cool.
One can certainly understand things, to an extent, that happened when they were young or before they were born. But if this is the meat of your argument, let alone appearing to be the entirety of it, this is not one of those times.
Lol no that’s just what you jabronis latched onto because it was the easiest part to dispute
The messaging is the same. We’ve been saying every election is the most important election every 4 years going on decades now, in fact, here’s a slate article documenting the use of the phrase “most important election in our countries history” going back 200 years in print media.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/most-important-election-of-our-lifetimes-history.html
And you know what? They were right, they were just off on the timing. Bush’s administration (and frankly Clinton’s before him, to a lesser degree) normalized a lot of more-flaunting that’s only just coming to fruition.
A disdain for the truth. A mistrust of our electoral process. Utilizing consecutive emergencies to hold on to power (also known as the Julius Caesar doctrine). Projecting the appearance of strength at any cost. Never admitting to misconduct. Fighting against (and convincing your supporters to fight against) things that would’ve previously been bipartisan just because it could help the other party politically. Overlooking malfeasance because of party alliance (and overlooking positive qualities because of disloyalty). Showboating for cable news. All of those things led directly to Donald Trump in 2016, because they were torn down piece by piece in 1996-2004.
This false equivalency doesn’t acknowledge that nations very rarely fall in one swift stroke; it’s a slow but steady erosion of the fabric of decency. And maybe you’re right this time, too; maybe Trump will surprise us all and not do the things he said he would do, like be a dictator on his first day in office or deport non-Christians or pardon convicted criminals who are loyal to him.
But what about the next guy? The one who sees the promises Trump is making and thinks, “this but unironically”? The guy who sees how far Trump has pushed the envelope and how much he’s disregarded mores and is willing to push it down the field a little bit more? What about the guy in 2032 who thinks Trump’s “first day dictatorship” didn’t go far enough? What’s to stop him?
It’s not a slippery slope fallacy when we’re actually slipping down the slope.
And we won’t fix it next time if we won’t fix it now. They’ll just keep moving the Overton Window until they’ve normalized an outright empire.
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see…” “You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?” “No,” said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, “nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.” “Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.” “I did,” said Ford. “It is.” “So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t people get rid of the lizards?” “It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.” “You mean they actually vote for the lizards?” “Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.” “But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?” “Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?” “What?” “I said,” said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, “have you got any gin?” “I’ll look. Tell me about the lizards.” Ford shrugged again. “Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happened to them,” he said. “They’re completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone’s got to say it.” “But that’s terrible,” said Arthur. “Listen, bud,” said Ford, “if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say ‘That’s terrible’ I wouldn’t be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.”
-Douglas Adams