No. You don’t get to tell me that I have to vote for Biden when he’s not doing anything to earn my vote. He’s allowing Israel to carry out a genocide. So he’s not actually less evil than Trump. You’re just upset because Trump’s shitty policies will impact you more than Biden’s shitty policies. Biden has the lower approval ratings than Trump did at this point. He has not earned a second term.
How about the Dems run a candidate who isn’t dog shit? I vote for Dems as a form of harm reduction, but they aren’t reducing harm anymore. So what’s in it for me? Dems haven’t not done anything about the supreme court, student loans, or threats to democracy and they are largely supporting the actions of Israel. If I’m right, and this is a genocide (I am), then voting for anyone who supports it would be an evil act. They’re going to have to make some changes if they want to earn the votes of people who don’t want to see a genocide carried out on our watch with our bombs.
That said, it would be a real problem if Trump won. So if that happens, I hope you’ll be willing to place the blame where it belongs: with the Democrats. They are the ones doing nothing to earn our votes. Biden isn’t even campaigning.
Okay. But Palestine still gonna be fucked. I get that you don’t care if Palestinians die. But I do. So I get to not vote for the guy currently enabling their genocide. “Trump would do it too” so you admit it’s bad? Demand better from your politicians you weakling.
If you think Palestine is still fucked either way then choosing to empowerer Trump makes even less sense. I think it’s a fact that Trump will be far worse for Palestinians than Biden, but even if we assume they will both be just as terrible on this issue, Trump is also terrible on every issue. If your choice is terrible and completely terrible, logically you should go with terrible. The other choice is even worse.
How could trump be worse?what is worse than arming the Israelies while they engage in genocide? Unless you don’t believe that’s what is happening. In which case,you have been misinformed. Genocide is genocide. Why am I the asshole here for not wanting to vote for someone who is enabling a genocide? Why isn’t Biden the asshole for enabling the genocide or not stepping down?
Trump (to black Americans) in 2016: What do you have to lose?
You’re basically just spouting Trump talking points.
Trump would obviously not only support Israel’s position he would sell them more weapons…wouldn’t care at all about the Palestinian human rights angle and he would allow Russia to walk into Ukraine and that’s just the “foreign relations” plan…domestically, he’s planning on setting up concentration camps for the homeless and undocumented.
Okay. Gaza isn’t my only issue with Biden. And no Trump doesn’t align with me on those issues either, but if Trump doesn’t get my vote by default just because I dislike Biden, then the same should follow for Biden. I’m sorry that you don’t like how I, one person that you do not know, am planning to vote. However, I will not change my plans because you say I have to. You have not given me a reason to vote for Biden. Just reasons not to vote for Trump. And that’s not only not a winning strategy forever, but its getting fucking annoying at this point. Not a single person here has said been able to point to any actual thing that makes Trump better on this issue. Biden didn’t do anything to fix the issues with the court with the first two years that he had. He dropped the ball on student loan debt relief. I could give you other examples of my frustrations with Biden. But I’m not going to waste my time. Because you’ll just say “Trump will be worse, if you want change, vote for Dems.” But dems don’t make changes because they want to hold onto power. That is how they always operate in my opinion. You are free to feel differently, but I have based that opinion on 36 years of life and watching them operate. You won’t get the change you want out of democrats. You’ll get more of the same.
So please, stop telling people what they have to do with their votes. We don’t all agree that things are going so super, duper well right now. Dems don’t listen to progressives, there aren’t any parties on the actual left who can win, i have no one to vote for. And yes, I’m mad at democrats about it because they lie about being progressives. And I mean literally. Jon Fetterman ran a progressive campaign and now openly states that he’s not progressive and drapes himself in the Israeli flag so that he can get those sweet, sweet AIPAC dollars. But by all means, keep voting blue no matter who and tell yourself that your not like MAGA Republicans, because at least you have the illusion of choice.
Not arming the Israeli’s and letting Iran try to start a war it cannot win, which would result in a domino effect of failed middle eastern states, tens of millions of deaths, and tens of millions of war refugees.
Oh but by all means burn the fucking planet down and destroy democracy for 350,000,000 Americans because you want everyone to know how super sad you are over 25,000 avoidable deaths.
And then they bombed the safe areas. Look it up. You’re wrong about this. The ICJ has agreed to continue the case. They are clearly convinced that there is a plausibility that Israel has committed genocide. Do you think you’re smarter than the 17 judges sitting on the ICJ for this case?
ah, so the single-issue voter. actually it’s not even single-issue, that’s just giving up status quo in order to effectively vote for worse than status quo. that’s called having a narrow view on the world, you know the middle east isn’t the only thing that exists in american politics right? there are still other things to improve on rather than just saying “oh israel-palestine conflict is going to shit either way therefore why even bother, might as well fuck up every other political issue, it’s useless if we can’t have this one win”.
grow up, you’re effectively casting all your friends and loved ones into the flames with your stubbornness, and casting palestinians into the flames considering trump is going to rail way harder against palestine than biden does. it’s not like not voting means no palestinians die, why do you have this delusion that you have blood on your hands if you vote but no blood on your hands if you don’t. it helps nobody and improves nothing except your own ego because you get to say “oh well i didn’t vote for genocide!” even though you practically voted for more genocide.
It’s not my only issue with Biden, but it is my biggest and the fact that it doesn’t even seem to register as a problem for you is very telling. You don’t care about anything that’s happening to anyone outside of the US huh? Your world is that small? Get a grip. We all draw our lines in the sand somewhere and when the line is crossed, that’s usually the thing we’re going to yell about. I think “I can work with you on anything other than genocide related crimes” is pretty fucking lenient, don’t you?
Vote for the candidate whose election will result in the least amount of genocide. Millions of people dying under Trump is worse than the thousands of people who have died under Biden. If you cared this about the Palestinians, saving millions of lives would be a straightforward math problem.
That said, it would be a real problem if Trump won. So if that happens, I hope you’ll be willing to place the blame where it belongs: with the Democrats. They are the ones doing nothing to earn our votes. Biden isn’t even campaigning.
Biden is governing. He’s doing the job he was elected to do. Perhaps that’s enough to earn some votes? Or are votes only earnt by rallies and advertisements?
In any case, it’s completely silly to blame the Democrats for losing if you don’t vote for them yourself. If you prefer Democrats over republicans, then you have to vote for them. Even though they aren’t perfect. If you don’t vote, then it is totally unreasonable to blame anyone else for getting an undesired outcome. Not voting implies that you have no preference.
(And yet again, this is another case where ‘ranked choice’ voting / preferential / instant-runoff would make this whole situation a lot easier. USA could really use some serious electoral reform.)
I don’t currently prefer democrats over Republicans. I think they are equally harmful in different ways. What do I do? I agree that Republicans are wrong on everything, but Dems are wrong on enough things, and majorly so, that I don’t think that they can be reformed. RCV is a pipe dream for the US at large. Especially with dems in positions of power. They haven’t historically been willing to give up power once they have it.
Vote however you want. It’s your choice. If you prefer Republicans, then vote for them. I’m just saying that if you choose not to vote for Democrats, it’s silly to then go on to blame the Democrats for Trump being in power. ‘Blame’ implies that you are unhappy with the outcome, but it is effectively an outcome that you yourself chose with your vote.
If you don’t want Trump to win, then you should choose to vote against him. If you don’t, you yourself are the one to blame. (That said, if you are happy to have that demented tyrant as your president, then go ahead and vote for him. It’s your choice.)
If Dems need my vote to win, then they need to run a candidate that doesn’t support genocide in Palestine. If they can’t or won’t do that, then they are forfeiting my vote. If they do that and lose, then they are the one’s “at fault” for losing.
Trump will green light Netanyahu to fully ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip. Trump does whatever strongmen tell him to do. It is illogical to allow a candidate whose election will result in more Palestinian deaths to be elected through inaction. Especially when Trump will prevent future elections and thus deny us the ability to elect more progressive candidates in the future.
Of course nobody can tell you who you have to vote for.
But regardless of your choice and your reasons, the math of the votes in our stupid system does mean that voting for anybody but Biden, including voting for nobody, helps Trump or his Republican replacement.
If you don’t care about that, that’s fine. Some might argue that you SHOULD care, but that’s a different conversation. The voting decision is a private one that’s yours alone, but understanding how the choices affect the outcome is good for everybody.
I do care about those things. But I also care about Biden not being president for different, equally valid, equally moral, reasons. Also for pettiness sake, he fucking said he’d be a one term president before he ran in 2020 and we should fucking hold him to that but no one fucking remembers it. I cannot bring myself to vote for a man who has said and done the things he had said and done. So if I care about those things as I “should” and if I also care about doing something about the runaway supreme court and not arming a genocidal right wing government (just to name a couple of my objections to Biden’s presidency), who do I vote for? Do I just give Biden another 4 years because the other guy sucks? Even though I know that it means that he will allow a genocide to be carried out and join wars to defend that genocide which will lead to untold deaths?
Like, even in your comment, while you tell me it’s a personal decision, you’re still laying it on a bit thick and its clear what you think I should do with my vote.
Do I just give Biden another 4 years because the other guy sucks?
Yes. The choice is one or the other so you pick the least bad option. You’re not voting on whether or not to do a genocide, that’s not what this election is deciding. If you genuinely care about the Supreme Court, it’s fucked up because of Trump and if he wins he will stack it even further. And do you really think Trump is going to sell fewer weapons to murderous right wing governments than Biden will? Again, the choice is one or the other so you either vote for Biden or you are serving to empower Trump. You don’t have to love Biden or feel good about voting for him, but please recognize that an even worse scenario will unfold if Trump wins.
No. That is a false dichotomy, as I have said to literally everyone else who has tried to use that argument. There are other options here. The DNC’s and/or Joe Biden’s unwillingness to explore those options doesn’t make them not options. It just means we need to push them harder. Your unwillingness to do so does not mean that the options don’t exist. I am not required to subscribe to your way of viewing politics.
We live in a two party system. There are two candidates who have a real chance to win the presidential election. This has been true for the entire history of US politics. This is not a way of viewing politics, it’s historical fact. Alternate facts aren’t an opinion, they’re lies.
Unfortunately, it’s a bit too late to switch candidates now. It’s an election year. Withholding our votes won’t result in better candidates in the next election. In fact in this case there won’t be a next election if Trump wins. We need to politically engaged for the next four years if we want a better candidate in 2028. Which I do. So I’m going to vote for Biden since he isn’t going to destroy democracy for personal gain.
I think it’s pretty obvious where the blame would be if Trump wins: the stupid folks who refused to vote out of principle. If it was possible that neither could win then your strategy could make sense. But there are ONLY 2 OUTCOMES. Requiring dems to earn your vote is unfortunately meaningless when the only other option is FAR WORSE YOU CRETIN OF INANE CONCLUSIONS.
That’s simply not true. Biden has the option to step down and let a Democrat who isn’t dog shit run in his place. He and the DNC are choosing not to do so. The election is months away. He can still back out if he wants. It is not Trump or Biden unless Dems refuse to listen to voters.
You’re inability to imagine a scenario does not make it impossible. You gave me a false dichotomy, I gave you an explanation of why it was false. You don’t have to like it. Nobody does. But they would have months to campaign. The primaries aren’t even over yet, so it wouldn’t theoretically cost then anything. Dems just need to do it. They’ve had since October. They’re the ones making the choice here. They could make a different one.
But they won’t. Because they care more about making sure the “right people” have power than representing their constituents or even doing what’s right. This isn’t the first time and it won’t be the last.
It’s called being realistic my dude. If you want further left politicians and policies, organize and turn out the vote. If you don’t you get the most milquetoast people-pleasing centrist democrat ever because the DNC is trying to placate as many people as they can.
Have you seen what the right wing has done over the last decade or so with the Tea Party morphing into the Freedom Caucus? There are right wing groups showing up to school board meetings and running for city councils all across the country. They’ve mobilized and are going out and taking what they want and now the formerly “mainstream” Republicans are completely beholden to them and afraid of being primaried in the next off-year election.
The left needs to do the same thing over the next decade or two (or three), that’s the only way we can actually win long term.
Yeah I remember. I remember a lot of steam for Bernie and then a disappointing turn out as well.
Fuck Hillary but lets not pretend he was riding an overwhelming wave of support and a bunch of primaries were stolen from him. He consistently trailed her by like 30 points. I went to a couple of his rallies and donated so I remember, the fervor was nowhere near what MAGA has become right?
Also, that info was leaked by “Guccifer,” a Russian asset, so I’d be wary basing too much on that.
Isn’t it funny how you dismiss every thing that reflects poorly on the party you support? Despite the fact that the DNC did not dispute the contents? They sued over the release of the emails because they believe it interfered with the election. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t. But they don’t deny the contents of the leaked emails themselves. I guess anything so that you can vote blue no matter who, huh?
No. You don’t get to tell me that I have to vote for Biden when he’s not doing anything to earn my vote. He’s allowing Israel to carry out a genocide. So he’s not actually less evil than Trump. You’re just upset because Trump’s shitty policies will impact you more than Biden’s shitty policies. Biden has the lower approval ratings than Trump did at this point. He has not earned a second term.
How about the Dems run a candidate who isn’t dog shit? I vote for Dems as a form of harm reduction, but they aren’t reducing harm anymore. So what’s in it for me? Dems haven’t not done anything about the supreme court, student loans, or threats to democracy and they are largely supporting the actions of Israel. If I’m right, and this is a genocide (I am), then voting for anyone who supports it would be an evil act. They’re going to have to make some changes if they want to earn the votes of people who don’t want to see a genocide carried out on our watch with our bombs.
That said, it would be a real problem if Trump won. So if that happens, I hope you’ll be willing to place the blame where it belongs: with the Democrats. They are the ones doing nothing to earn our votes. Biden isn’t even campaigning.
Okay. But Palestine still gonna be fucked. I get that you don’t care if Palestinians die. But I do. So I get to not vote for the guy currently enabling their genocide. “Trump would do it too” so you admit it’s bad? Demand better from your politicians you weakling.
If you think Palestine is still fucked either way then choosing to empowerer Trump makes even less sense. I think it’s a fact that Trump will be far worse for Palestinians than Biden, but even if we assume they will both be just as terrible on this issue, Trump is also terrible on every issue. If your choice is terrible and completely terrible, logically you should go with terrible. The other choice is even worse.
How could trump be worse?what is worse than arming the Israelies while they engage in genocide? Unless you don’t believe that’s what is happening. In which case,you have been misinformed. Genocide is genocide. Why am I the asshole here for not wanting to vote for someone who is enabling a genocide? Why isn’t Biden the asshole for enabling the genocide or not stepping down?
Trump (to black Americans) in 2016: What do you have to lose?
You’re basically just spouting Trump talking points.
Trump would obviously not only support Israel’s position he would sell them more weapons…wouldn’t care at all about the Palestinian human rights angle and he would allow Russia to walk into Ukraine and that’s just the “foreign relations” plan…domestically, he’s planning on setting up concentration camps for the homeless and undocumented.
So he would do what Biden is doing but more… Justify voting for him however you want. Biden is just as supportive of Israel as Trump would be.
Exactly…so that’s why Trump is worse for everything including the Israel issue.
Okay. Gaza isn’t my only issue with Biden. And no Trump doesn’t align with me on those issues either, but if Trump doesn’t get my vote by default just because I dislike Biden, then the same should follow for Biden. I’m sorry that you don’t like how I, one person that you do not know, am planning to vote. However, I will not change my plans because you say I have to. You have not given me a reason to vote for Biden. Just reasons not to vote for Trump. And that’s not only not a winning strategy forever, but its getting fucking annoying at this point. Not a single person here has said been able to point to any actual thing that makes Trump better on this issue. Biden didn’t do anything to fix the issues with the court with the first two years that he had. He dropped the ball on student loan debt relief. I could give you other examples of my frustrations with Biden. But I’m not going to waste my time. Because you’ll just say “Trump will be worse, if you want change, vote for Dems.” But dems don’t make changes because they want to hold onto power. That is how they always operate in my opinion. You are free to feel differently, but I have based that opinion on 36 years of life and watching them operate. You won’t get the change you want out of democrats. You’ll get more of the same.
So please, stop telling people what they have to do with their votes. We don’t all agree that things are going so super, duper well right now. Dems don’t listen to progressives, there aren’t any parties on the actual left who can win, i have no one to vote for. And yes, I’m mad at democrats about it because they lie about being progressives. And I mean literally. Jon Fetterman ran a progressive campaign and now openly states that he’s not progressive and drapes himself in the Israeli flag so that he can get those sweet, sweet AIPAC dollars. But by all means, keep voting blue no matter who and tell yourself that your not like MAGA Republicans, because at least you have the illusion of choice.
Not arming the Israeli’s and letting Iran try to start a war it cannot win, which would result in a domino effect of failed middle eastern states, tens of millions of deaths, and tens of millions of war refugees.
Oh but by all means burn the fucking planet down and destroy democracy for 350,000,000 Americans because you want everyone to know how super sad you are over 25,000 avoidable deaths.
The fuck? So just let Israel kill civilians. Cool. I was wrong. You’re not a psychopath. You’re someone who would have gone along with the Nazis.
No you are incorrect. The Nazis didn’t warn anyone before doing actual carpet bombing of civilians.
Israel warns people before it bombs. Look it up.
And then they bombed the safe areas. Look it up. You’re wrong about this. The ICJ has agreed to continue the case. They are clearly convinced that there is a plausibility that Israel has committed genocide. Do you think you’re smarter than the 17 judges sitting on the ICJ for this case?
ah, so the single-issue voter. actually it’s not even single-issue, that’s just giving up status quo in order to effectively vote for worse than status quo. that’s called having a narrow view on the world, you know the middle east isn’t the only thing that exists in american politics right? there are still other things to improve on rather than just saying “oh israel-palestine conflict is going to shit either way therefore why even bother, might as well fuck up every other political issue, it’s useless if we can’t have this one win”.
grow up, you’re effectively casting all your friends and loved ones into the flames with your stubbornness, and casting palestinians into the flames considering trump is going to rail way harder against palestine than biden does. it’s not like not voting means no palestinians die, why do you have this delusion that you have blood on your hands if you vote but no blood on your hands if you don’t. it helps nobody and improves nothing except your own ego because you get to say “oh well i didn’t vote for genocide!” even though you practically voted for more genocide.
It’s not my only issue with Biden, but it is my biggest and the fact that it doesn’t even seem to register as a problem for you is very telling. You don’t care about anything that’s happening to anyone outside of the US huh? Your world is that small? Get a grip. We all draw our lines in the sand somewhere and when the line is crossed, that’s usually the thing we’re going to yell about. I think “I can work with you on anything other than genocide related crimes” is pretty fucking lenient, don’t you?
Some might say it’s the weakling that can’t make the right decision to vote for the lesser evil even if they don’t like them.
Like I said in the last reply, you get to vote however you like. But if you publicly share your choice, others are free to comment on it.
There it is! The right decision! See and I think you’re making the wrong decision. Aren’t perspectives fun?
Letting fascism win is the objectively wrong decision. It’s not a different perspective, you aren’t thinking.
Letting genocide continue is the objectively wrong decision. So I have two objectively wrong decisions. What do?
Vote for the candidate whose election will result in the least amount of genocide. Millions of people dying under Trump is worse than the thousands of people who have died under Biden. If you cared this about the Palestinians, saving millions of lives would be a straightforward math problem.
The least amount of genocide for whom? Who’s lives do I value over thr others? The ones that are most like mine?
Biden is governing. He’s doing the job he was elected to do. Perhaps that’s enough to earn some votes? Or are votes only earnt by rallies and advertisements?
In any case, it’s completely silly to blame the Democrats for losing if you don’t vote for them yourself. If you prefer Democrats over republicans, then you have to vote for them. Even though they aren’t perfect. If you don’t vote, then it is totally unreasonable to blame anyone else for getting an undesired outcome. Not voting implies that you have no preference.
(And yet again, this is another case where ‘ranked choice’ voting / preferential / instant-runoff would make this whole situation a lot easier. USA could really use some serious electoral reform.)
I don’t currently prefer democrats over Republicans. I think they are equally harmful in different ways. What do I do? I agree that Republicans are wrong on everything, but Dems are wrong on enough things, and majorly so, that I don’t think that they can be reformed. RCV is a pipe dream for the US at large. Especially with dems in positions of power. They haven’t historically been willing to give up power once they have it.
Vote however you want. It’s your choice. If you prefer Republicans, then vote for them. I’m just saying that if you choose not to vote for Democrats, it’s silly to then go on to blame the Democrats for Trump being in power. ‘Blame’ implies that you are unhappy with the outcome, but it is effectively an outcome that you yourself chose with your vote.
If you don’t want Trump to win, then you should choose to vote against him. If you don’t, you yourself are the one to blame. (That said, if you are happy to have that demented tyrant as your president, then go ahead and vote for him. It’s your choice.)
If Dems need my vote to win, then they need to run a candidate that doesn’t support genocide in Palestine. If they can’t or won’t do that, then they are forfeiting my vote. If they do that and lose, then they are the one’s “at fault” for losing.
More Palestinians will die under Trump. The only logical choice is to choose the candidate whose election will result in fewer deaths.
Palestinians are dying under Biden right now. The logical choice is to try to get him to step down.
Trump will green light Netanyahu to fully ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip. Trump does whatever strongmen tell him to do. It is illogical to allow a candidate whose election will result in more Palestinian deaths to be elected through inaction. Especially when Trump will prevent future elections and thus deny us the ability to elect more progressive candidates in the future.
How is that different from what Biden has done?
Of course nobody can tell you who you have to vote for.
But regardless of your choice and your reasons, the math of the votes in our stupid system does mean that voting for anybody but Biden, including voting for nobody, helps Trump or his Republican replacement.
If you don’t care about that, that’s fine. Some might argue that you SHOULD care, but that’s a different conversation. The voting decision is a private one that’s yours alone, but understanding how the choices affect the outcome is good for everybody.
I do care about those things. But I also care about Biden not being president for different, equally valid, equally moral, reasons. Also for pettiness sake, he fucking said he’d be a one term president before he ran in 2020 and we should fucking hold him to that but no one fucking remembers it. I cannot bring myself to vote for a man who has said and done the things he had said and done. So if I care about those things as I “should” and if I also care about doing something about the runaway supreme court and not arming a genocidal right wing government (just to name a couple of my objections to Biden’s presidency), who do I vote for? Do I just give Biden another 4 years because the other guy sucks? Even though I know that it means that he will allow a genocide to be carried out and join wars to defend that genocide which will lead to untold deaths?
Like, even in your comment, while you tell me it’s a personal decision, you’re still laying it on a bit thick and its clear what you think I should do with my vote.
Yes. The choice is one or the other so you pick the least bad option. You’re not voting on whether or not to do a genocide, that’s not what this election is deciding. If you genuinely care about the Supreme Court, it’s fucked up because of Trump and if he wins he will stack it even further. And do you really think Trump is going to sell fewer weapons to murderous right wing governments than Biden will? Again, the choice is one or the other so you either vote for Biden or you are serving to empower Trump. You don’t have to love Biden or feel good about voting for him, but please recognize that an even worse scenario will unfold if Trump wins.
No. That is a false dichotomy, as I have said to literally everyone else who has tried to use that argument. There are other options here. The DNC’s and/or Joe Biden’s unwillingness to explore those options doesn’t make them not options. It just means we need to push them harder. Your unwillingness to do so does not mean that the options don’t exist. I am not required to subscribe to your way of viewing politics.
We live in a two party system. There are two candidates who have a real chance to win the presidential election. This has been true for the entire history of US politics. This is not a way of viewing politics, it’s historical fact. Alternate facts aren’t an opinion, they’re lies.
And I’m saying if Dems want to win, they need to run a different guy. That’s not even me, its the polls.
Unfortunately, it’s a bit too late to switch candidates now. It’s an election year. Withholding our votes won’t result in better candidates in the next election. In fact in this case there won’t be a next election if Trump wins. We need to politically engaged for the next four years if we want a better candidate in 2028. Which I do. So I’m going to vote for Biden since he isn’t going to destroy democracy for personal gain.
Its literally not though? Are the primaries over?
I think it’s pretty obvious where the blame would be if Trump wins: the stupid folks who refused to vote out of principle. If it was possible that neither could win then your strategy could make sense. But there are ONLY 2 OUTCOMES. Requiring dems to earn your vote is unfortunately meaningless when the only other option is FAR WORSE YOU CRETIN OF INANE CONCLUSIONS.
That’s simply not true. Biden has the option to step down and let a Democrat who isn’t dog shit run in his place. He and the DNC are choosing not to do so. The election is months away. He can still back out if he wants. It is not Trump or Biden unless Dems refuse to listen to voters.
Talk about unrealistic.
Has an incumbent ever just bowed out due to pressure from the fringe?
Do you think a new, unknown candidate could drop into the race and have any chance against the right-wing cult that will 100% turn up to vote?
You’re inability to imagine a scenario does not make it impossible. You gave me a false dichotomy, I gave you an explanation of why it was false. You don’t have to like it. Nobody does. But they would have months to campaign. The primaries aren’t even over yet, so it wouldn’t theoretically cost then anything. Dems just need to do it. They’ve had since October. They’re the ones making the choice here. They could make a different one.
But they won’t. Because they care more about making sure the “right people” have power than representing their constituents or even doing what’s right. This isn’t the first time and it won’t be the last.
It’s called being realistic my dude. If you want further left politicians and policies, organize and turn out the vote. If you don’t you get the most milquetoast people-pleasing centrist democrat ever because the DNC is trying to placate as many people as they can.
Have you seen what the right wing has done over the last decade or so with the Tea Party morphing into the Freedom Caucus? There are right wing groups showing up to school board meetings and running for city councils all across the country. They’ve mobilized and are going out and taking what they want and now the formerly “mainstream” Republicans are completely beholden to them and afraid of being primaried in the next off-year election.
The left needs to do the same thing over the next decade or two (or three), that’s the only way we can actually win long term.
“get out the vote.” We tried, they rigged it against Bernie twice.
Yeah I remember. I remember a lot of steam for Bernie and then a disappointing turn out as well.
Fuck Hillary but lets not pretend he was riding an overwhelming wave of support and a bunch of primaries were stolen from him. He consistently trailed her by like 30 points. I went to a couple of his rallies and donated so I remember, the fervor was nowhere near what MAGA has become right?
Also, that info was leaked by “Guccifer,” a Russian asset, so I’d be wary basing too much on that.
Isn’t it funny how you dismiss every thing that reflects poorly on the party you support? Despite the fact that the DNC did not dispute the contents? They sued over the release of the emails because they believe it interfered with the election. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t. But they don’t deny the contents of the leaked emails themselves. I guess anything so that you can vote blue no matter who, huh?