Often the subject of disagreement, Voyager is talked about poorly by some and praised by others. Seeing plenty of posts about it here. Well ya know - I think Voyager is underrated.
That show took risks. They ran some stories that were just risky in terms of writing and production - sometimes it was a hit, sometimes a stinker. That’s why it has some amazing episodes and some really really stupid ones, because they were willing to take a chance on something uncertain. And I respect that, too many shows these days feel like the same recycled crap because television has become so risk-averse and they’re not willing to take a chance on something that might turn out dumb.
So we got ones like the infamous warp 10 episode, and those are remembered as cases where the show got really dumb. But as an example, Seven of Nine could’ve completely bombed that show. Yes it looked like they were bringing on a bimbo for sex appeal, and they absolutely could’ve went that route with her. Fans might’ve hated the change no matter what. I mean, that’s a big deal, losing a main character and adding a new one - shows don’t always survive that.
Also there are things I notice from a production standpoint. From reading about the making of TNG, one thing I remember is them talking about never wanting to damage the costumes or get them dirty, or damage the set. That increases their production costs, cheaper to just not do that.
But Voyager does this all the time. Uniforms are always getting burned and torn, Neelix spills things on his shirt, the bridge is shown being blown up or completely transformed. All the times they have smoke inside there, there’s something with water, parts are broken off - that’s something they had to clean up for the next episode. If they show burn marks on the captain’s chair, that means they’ll have to be cleaned or the whole prop replaced, at the risk of it not being identical or impossible to fix.
So the point is - respect for taking those risks. Didn’t always land, but plenty of them did.
I totally agree. Voyager is what got me really into Trek. It really set the tone that it’s easy/easier to live by the high minded, aspirational values of the federation when resources are abundant to infinite, but Voyager showed us that those values just as important if not moreso in the darkness.
And let’s be honest, Sisko didn’t really even seem to subscribe to those values, so DS9 wasn’t similar in that regard.
@catshit_dogfart Voyager was my main Trek when I was younger and will always be my favourite. Janeway was awesome, and it’s location in the Delta quadrant, far from Starfleet, made for some unique story opportunities.
When Seven was introduced, I was already bitter about the move Sliders made to remove a beloved character and bring on a hot woman, so I was really upset that Voyager did the same. But grew to love the character over time.
Voyager was fantastic & made me a Trek fan.
I’m still really sad that Kes was written off. Got no problem with Seven, but Kes was a good character on her own.
But, Neelix was pretty crap until Kes was removed from the show. Without her to be constantly jealous of, Neelix finally started to be useful and interesting.
I agree 100%, his spat with Tom was annoying, I liked him better once she was out of the picture.
I think the character of Kes was very poorly written. It limited the acting range of Jennifer Lien, which is only really given a chance to shine in the episode Warlord.
I love Voyager. It’s one of my go to’s to watch, and when asked, I will always say Janeway is my captain.
But I’m also a Star Trek: Enterprise apologist, so i might be easily pleased.
YES! Janeway is a great captain that often doesn’t get credit.
Janeway is also my Captain.
Enterprise was fine just not great and not really canon but better than the crap JJ Abrams made.
I love voyager the most because the crew became a family.
When it comes to family we tend to make different decisions when it’s about making sure they are safe and cared for. imo that’s what made capt janeway different from picard or sisko. People tend to push her as being irrational but being a parent, that happens. I think that’s why i loved picard, and i love season 3 more than any episode of TNG.
And obviously the situation they were in was completely different. I totally agree with you about the budget. It is all about the money in the end for all things. They had a planet of the week sound stage to save money. Makes sense. Even the new shows have a budget.
Voyager gets unnecessarily picked on. It’s a little weak in the first few seasons, but even those have some standout eps. When Seven shows up, it gets even better.
I think all of the 90s and 00s era series hit their stride in season 4.
I really enjoyed Voyager and still watch episodes regularly. For me it was the idea of being so far from the “known universe” and what that would be like.
A feel like that Ronald D. Moore rant that came out after he left the show really damaged the perception of the show in many fan circles. This damage getting even worse when Moore went on to create BSG which is some spectacular television.
Many of the continuity/‘reset button’ complaints seem to stem from it and today even Moore admits that he was being unreasonably harsh on the show. His issue was with Brannon Braga and his own problems taking instruction/being led by somebody he’s had creative clashes with who used to just be a colleague.
But Voyager could not and never would be BSG. The Federation is far more advanced than the colonies were as a prime sticking point. Are we really going to see the ship get damage over the course of the series as though replicators aren’t onboard?
Did Voyager play it safe in some areas? Sure. But it was a network tent pole for UPN. Much of the aspects of DS9 that people love wouldn’t exist without Voyager being the ‘star’ at the time at taking the networks attention. Not to mention that DS9 was as bad for, if not worse at reset buttons - remember that pylon that got blown up and was just fine the next ep? Remember how they blew up the Defiant and just went ‘lol here’s a new one with different carpet’ for the finale?
That was just the reality of TV at the time. CG got significantly cheaper in the years after they both went off air - as evidenced even within Trek with the persistent damage in Enterprises third season.
I’m also really glad that you mentioned Seven and how brave they were with a number of those stories. There was clearly network pressure for ‘T&A’ and they could have gone the very easy (TNG) route of having a character in a skin tight outfit that rotates through love interest and sexual assault plots for focus episodes but otherwise just stands around stating the obvious (Sorry Troi), instead they introduced an attractive character in a catsuit and immediately made her but heads with the Captain, run around like a maverick and in the process gave us one of Treks very best character development arcs (somewhat at the expense of other members of the cast mind).
We also have to remember that they wanted (and needed due to VHS recorders being unreliable at best) a show where you could kiss a few episodes but still tune in and have a good time. I think, perhaps better than any other Trek Voyager succeeded in its aims in this regard.
In my view, having rewatched Voyager again decades after first run, the show not only took successful risks in several episodes like the Demon duology or The Thaw, it has some ‘best ever’ episodes for employing some classic Star Trek tropes.
At the time, I suspect some fans focused on the ‘not new idea’ more than ‘did it better than’ but at this point it’s fairly clear.
For fans who came to Voyager first (including our kids), the original TOS and TNG episodes that Voyager built upon just seem weak by comparison.
More, when SNW does something similar, people are viewing these kind of episodes from the perspective of how well done within a type rather than criticizing them for reworking a trope.
I do agree with you, had no idea people disliked Voyager whe. I first watched it, and I overall enjoyed it very much. Yeah, the show has a bunch of out there episodes, but they tried new things and all great star trek shows have their good share of wacky episodes.
It’s not even like it doesn’t have good criticism points, Kes character was very mishandled and her relationship with Neelix was terrible, he becomes a 1000% more likable once she’s gone, and Chakotay whole botched native American heritage disaster… (Which granted, they tried, they just sucked at finding a specialist)
And Tuvix is one of the topics that guarantees a philosophical discussion in any star trek group I’m in without fail. I pretty firmly hate Tuvix, but that’s power.
Tuvix is definitely a stinker. I love this video reviewing it: https://youtu.be/wVY63nx74_U
I liked Kes better than Neelix, and also liked Seven of Nine.
I don’t know where they possibly could have gone with Chakotay’s character after the initial Maqui subplots.
Honestly, same. Kes is likable from the get go, she just unfortunately treated as a prop most of the time instead of a character, specially for Neelix. I loved Seven, she became one of my favourites in Voyager.
About Chakotay, I don’t know where they could have gone either, he was one of my favourites at first because of the character’s potential and he looked hella cool. I don’t dislike him, but he’s bland, he’s honorable I guess.
Hacoochie moya.
There were a number of angles for Chakotay I think.
The romance with Janeway was obviously squashed by Mulgrew but could have been an interesting one to explore.
But the biggest missed opportunity was not making him into a more official counsellor/advice position - we have here a highly spiritual man who manages to keep a cool head in most situations. Use that. Don’t have Seven go to The Doctor for social lessons (as fun as blind leading the blind plots are), have it be Chakotay.
I feel like they kind of realised this angle in S7 when they had Seven working with the Chakotay hologram, but the less said about how that turned into that ridiculous romance the better.
Voyager was rerunning on Spike TV right around the time I was getting into highschool and it really got me into trek. I know DS9 purists and TNG era fans think it sub par, but I really enjoyed the show having serialized mini plots alongside the season long arcs of finding ways to get home faster. Not to mention the show spanning plot of returning from the Delta quadrant in general keeping them in the same direction with the series. It felt like you got the continuity of DS9 with the TNG era “alien of the week” style thrown in.
Plus when I was a kid I played the absolute shit out of Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force and damn that one is still fun to this day.
I agree with this, and to put it politely Voyager is far from my favorite Trek show. I understand that the main reason for this is that I didn’t click with the main cast as so many who love Voyager do, and that is 100% subjective. Even though I like fewer episodes than I dislike which I’ve seen, the appeal for someone whose taste is different than mine is obvious. Every trek show has oddness or persistent issues but these are typically forgivable because of the other strengths of the show. That the strengths of this show didn’t click with me doesn’t mean it’s nothing more than its bad parts. All this being said I love the character of Janeway and Kate Mulgrew’s performance as the character. I also find it amusing the extremely high number of times the character has been performed committing atrocities even though in most ;) instances it wasn’t the real prime Janeway.
I liked Voyager a lot the first few times. We used to binge it on VHS box sets. There are good and bad episodes like any series. The cast generally do well with what they are given and the design and production quality of the show for its time is excellent. Some of the characters get less development than they could have and the technobabble is often overdone but the show was unfairly treated by a lot of the star trek fandom then and now.
I grew up with Voyager and it holds a special place in my heart. I think it was a show of high highs and low lows, compared to other Treks. I wish they had the bravery to serialize it the way DS9 was.
With you on this one. I was still pretty young when Voyager first aired and remember being very disappointed by the addition of Seven of Nine, whereas as an adult yes clearly she was added and costumed for a specific purpose but she’s also a genuinely great character.
I loved the Doctor and the moral questions surrounding him just as much as I’d loved the same with Data as a kid.
Janeway was an exciting new take on a captain and Tuvix controversy aside I really looked up to her.
And let’s be honest if you’re looking for examples of terrible episodes that defy explanation you’ll find them in every Trek franchise. TNG will always be my favourite but it has so many absolute clangers.
I’m watching through it now for the first time (I already worked through TNG and DS9). I’m liking it a lot more than I expected, given what I’d heard about it. I really like the premise, and Janeway is a badass. Plus even the characters that others don’t seem to like as much, I enjoy. I’m about halfway through season 4 and I have noticed a drastic increase in quality of the episodes too, lots of cool stuff going on, and Seven is awesome. I started calling Janeway Insaneway in my head after a couple of stunts she’s done.
Voyager was “my” Star Trek growing up. I live in a country where we didn’t get things as they aired, so we were behind in the broadcast seasons, 1 season behind, from memory. I was too young to really appreciate TNG, but I really liked the feel of Voyager, even as a kid. I always thought that the Enterprise was never too far away from a Federation starbase, but Voyager being all alone really struck a chord with me.
Also I was 13/14 when Seven of Nine came on board, so of course that ratcheted up my desire to watch the show a million percent.
But going back and watching it later, with older sensibilities, god DAMN was that a good show overall. Yes, some episodes were terrible, and some of the writing really fell flat, but The Year of Hell particularly stood out for me. I haven’t seen anyone mention The Doctor in the comments so far, and I have to say that Robert Picardo was the perfect choice for that character. The Doctor had one of the best character arcs I’ve seen on TV. He never got “flanderised”, his character was consistent and always entertaining to watch. Chakotay as a character was poorly handled, he was very milquetoast, never really did anything interesting to stand out, he was always just…there.
