It’s possible to criticize Biden and be unhappy about his age without acting like him and trump are equally as bad, which a lot of “centrists” do to justify not voting. Those people are the ones being criticized in this post.
Yep. Trump voters don’t give a shit. They’ll vote no matter what. The people pushing the idea of not voting out of protest or whatever aren’t doing it honestly, at least not the first ones. The first ones are trying to get Trump elected. They might convince some fools to also push the same message without following the agenda.
The problem is, and why Reagan made a rule to not do it, is that when you call out your own side you give your enemy a fucktonne of ammo to use against you and sway moderates.
Look what happened to Al Franken and we’ve DESPERATELY needed him these last few years.
I love Jon Stewart and I really enjoyed his most recent segment where he calls out both sides, making it CLEAR that trumpty dumpty is the worst offender, but it’s already being used to make the moderates think that dems are abandoning Biden.
The other guy is downvoted, but I think you’re both right. There’s a time and place for both though. Biden needs critics, but the public face still needs to be behind him. I do think this is what’s happening however, because Biden has the most boring liberal policies, but his administration hasn’t been exactly that. It hasn’t been great, but it’s been far better than I expected, which I expected just pure pro-business liberal agenda stuff.
The critics need to work moving politics left, but we still need to get voters to elect democrats (not just for president) until there’s a realistic alternative. If people just don’t vote they aren’t just not voting for Biden. They’re going to hand the house and senate to Republicans too, which they’ll use to probably make the judicial brand even more conservative as well. We really can’t have that.
And look what happens when we give ammo to the other side, we lose Al Fucking Franken when we needed him most. The GOP is a hell of a lot more infested with rot than the dems to a degree it is almost an order of magnitude. We can afford to turtle up for a presidency or two.
What we CANNOT afford to do, is the opposite of that.
I am sorry, but in the US there is no moderates between the Dems and Reps. The Dems are representing far right neoliberalism and imperialist warmongering. The Reps are representing far right neoliberalism, imperialist warmongering and on top social values from the 50s, now sprinkled with a lot of fascism.
What would be considered moderate, by the standard of other western democracies is distinctively left of the Dems. And Dems are getting away with moving further and further to the right, as they can always say “see the other guy is worse”. If a sizeable part of the people unhappy with the Dems would vote a third party, it would actually threaten their power basis and force them to become a real alternative to the Reps.
You’re right that moderate in the US has different politics than the rest of the world. However, there are obviously moderates in the US and it’s weird to consider what it even means to say there isn’t. We all know there isn’t a leftist party in the US, but that’s not saying the same thing. Moderates are people who haven’t chosen a side to vote between Democrat and Republican, wherever they lie politically.
Yeah, but is anyone actually saying they’re equally, “bad,” or just that they’re both too old for this? I’ve heard people say that both shouldn’t be running but they’ll vote for Biden, or that Trump is fine and Biden is senile and criminal and part of the cabal (or whatever they believe these days), but I’ve never heard anyone say, “both are too old, therefore they’re equal and I won’t vote for either.” That seems like strawman meant to delegitimize criticism of Biden’s age.
I’ve seen lots of people accused of saying that when they give any criticism of Biden, but I’ve yet to actually see someone actually say that. At least my personal experience is like 10:0 of people accusing a specific person of saying that to the person actually saying that. That kind of POV I saw a lot more during Obama vs Romney, but not Biden vs Trump.
Just because someone says they’re not voting for someone who actively helps fund genocide doesn’t mean they’re saying the major alterative is equal. Just that neither major candidate passes the extremely low bar to be willing to vote for them.
Exactly. It definitely isn’t a, “centrist,” position either, centrists are firmly behind Biden. It feels like something leftists who are considering voting third party might say, but again, it’s not something I’ve actually seen anyone say. This feels like a meme in search of a problem.
In my experience people get a lot of that dumb camelcased “both sides” crap any time they make a legitimate criticism about Biden. It’s like a lot his supporters take a firm “with us or against us” stance. Which, ironically, is fucking exactly what the trump people do lol
Yeah, that’s my sense as welll. This meme feels like it was written by the kind of person who responds to any criticism of Biden with, “Oh so you want Trump to win?”
I’ve seen it a few times. You probably won’t see it much on lemmy since lemmy is pretty left leaning for the most part and doesn’t have as many of those types of centrists, but those people do exist on other sites that I’ve seen.
I am not a centrist by any strech of the imagination, but within a pretty slim margin of error just as bad as each other. What has biden even done in his term that is a net benefit.
It’s possible to criticize Biden and be unhappy about his age without acting like him and trump are equally as bad, which a lot of “centrists” do to justify not voting. Those people are the ones being criticized in this post.
Yep. Trump voters don’t give a shit. They’ll vote no matter what. The people pushing the idea of not voting out of protest or whatever aren’t doing it honestly, at least not the first ones. The first ones are trying to get Trump elected. They might convince some fools to also push the same message without following the agenda.
The problem is, and why Reagan made a rule to not do it, is that when you call out your own side you give your enemy a fucktonne of ammo to use against you and sway moderates.
Look what happened to Al Franken and we’ve DESPERATELY needed him these last few years.
I love Jon Stewart and I really enjoyed his most recent segment where he calls out both sides, making it CLEAR that trumpty dumpty is the worst offender, but it’s already being used to make the moderates think that dems are abandoning Biden.
Look what happens when you refuse to call out your own side, the GOP has become a complete clown show because of it.
The other guy is downvoted, but I think you’re both right. There’s a time and place for both though. Biden needs critics, but the public face still needs to be behind him. I do think this is what’s happening however, because Biden has the most boring liberal policies, but his administration hasn’t been exactly that. It hasn’t been great, but it’s been far better than I expected, which I expected just pure pro-business liberal agenda stuff.
The critics need to work moving politics left, but we still need to get voters to elect democrats (not just for president) until there’s a realistic alternative. If people just don’t vote they aren’t just not voting for Biden. They’re going to hand the house and senate to Republicans too, which they’ll use to probably make the judicial brand even more conservative as well. We really can’t have that.
And look what happens when we give ammo to the other side, we lose Al Fucking Franken when we needed him most. The GOP is a hell of a lot more infested with rot than the dems to a degree it is almost an order of magnitude. We can afford to turtle up for a presidency or two.
What we CANNOT afford to do, is the opposite of that.
I am sorry, but in the US there is no moderates between the Dems and Reps. The Dems are representing far right neoliberalism and imperialist warmongering. The Reps are representing far right neoliberalism, imperialist warmongering and on top social values from the 50s, now sprinkled with a lot of fascism.
What would be considered moderate, by the standard of other western democracies is distinctively left of the Dems. And Dems are getting away with moving further and further to the right, as they can always say “see the other guy is worse”. If a sizeable part of the people unhappy with the Dems would vote a third party, it would actually threaten their power basis and force them to become a real alternative to the Reps.
You’re right that moderate in the US has different politics than the rest of the world. However, there are obviously moderates in the US and it’s weird to consider what it even means to say there isn’t. We all know there isn’t a leftist party in the US, but that’s not saying the same thing. Moderates are people who haven’t chosen a side to vote between Democrat and Republican, wherever they lie politically.
Yeah, but is anyone actually saying they’re equally, “bad,” or just that they’re both too old for this? I’ve heard people say that both shouldn’t be running but they’ll vote for Biden, or that Trump is fine and Biden is senile and criminal and part of the cabal (or whatever they believe these days), but I’ve never heard anyone say, “both are too old, therefore they’re equal and I won’t vote for either.” That seems like strawman meant to delegitimize criticism of Biden’s age.
I have personally seen people say that so they do exist.
I’ve seen lots of people accused of saying that when they give any criticism of Biden, but I’ve yet to actually see someone actually say that. At least my personal experience is like 10:0 of people accusing a specific person of saying that to the person actually saying that. That kind of POV I saw a lot more during Obama vs Romney, but not Biden vs Trump.
Just because someone says they’re not voting for someone who actively helps fund genocide doesn’t mean they’re saying the major alterative is equal. Just that neither major candidate passes the extremely low bar to be willing to vote for them.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say they’re equally bad. I’ve seen a shitload of memes like this one that imply it’s widespread though.
Exactly. It definitely isn’t a, “centrist,” position either, centrists are firmly behind Biden. It feels like something leftists who are considering voting third party might say, but again, it’s not something I’ve actually seen anyone say. This feels like a meme in search of a problem.
In my experience people get a lot of that dumb camelcased “both sides” crap any time they make a legitimate criticism about Biden. It’s like a lot his supporters take a firm “with us or against us” stance. Which, ironically, is fucking exactly what the trump people do lol
Are you saying Trump supporters and Biden supporters are equal! /s
Yeah, that’s my sense as welll. This meme feels like it was written by the kind of person who responds to any criticism of Biden with, “Oh so you want Trump to win?”
I’ve seen it a few times. You probably won’t see it much on lemmy since lemmy is pretty left leaning for the most part and doesn’t have as many of those types of centrists, but those people do exist on other sites that I’ve seen.
I am not a centrist by any strech of the imagination, but within a pretty slim margin of error just as bad as each other. What has biden even done in his term that is a net benefit.