Just another byproduct of enshittification. Novadays, a top-end Garmin watch lasts about as long as a Chinese watch of a brand with random characters you buy off Amazon. Google is introducing planned obsolesence in Fitbit. Banking apps are beginning to require phones that are no more than 4 years old. TVs get bricked with firmware upgrades. So, consumers are trained to buy cheapest, least reliable electronics, because over time they’ll provide more value than top-end items which used to last much longer. (This was written on a 13 years old phone. I may not have access to my banking app anymore, but otherwise it works for everything I need, and I haven’t contributed to e-waste in this regard. Not that the pollution angle was my reason to keep the phone, but it’s a nice extra bonus.)
Samsung Galaxy S2. With a replaceable battery and good external cover, that thing can last for a long time. I did contribute to e-waste by replacing the battery three times so far, but that’s all.
I can guarantee that any Android phone with a good modding community can last this much. He’s probably using Samsung galaxy s series or those old Google Nexus phone.
My phone’s official support stopped at Android 10 yet I’m currently running Android 14 with the help of custom rom.
Hello! Not sure if the screenshot will attach to this comment but I was able to successfully log into Lemmy and I’m replying to your comment from my iPhone 4s.
With all of this being said and done, I do agree that OP is not likely to be using an iPhone. An Android phone from this period is way more usable than this iPhone even with all the hacks I’ve done to it.
Don’t be so certain. Using jailbreaks the 4s can be downgraded to either 8.4.1 or 6.1.3. My own one is on 8.4.1 and old.Lemmy.world renders perfectly on it. I’ll grab it actually and see if I can reply to this comment.
I’ve always thought I had a 4s laying around. But just checked and it’s a 5c. With a broken screen. Would that be worth to have fixed and try to jailbreak to use it in 2024?
Most I do is Whatsapp, Lemmy, YouTube and browse the web. Casually.
I have a Galaxy S7 right now but it has never been comfortable to hold for me and the battery is getting old.
You could do the screen replacement yourself which honestly isn’t too difficult if you follow a repair guide such as the ones iFixit make available. You may find it cheaper to find an iCloud locked 5c with a functional screen than to buy a replacement screen itself, and you have spare parts should you need them.
However, I believe the 5c was a bit of an underwhelming phone because it was effectively the same as the iPhone 5 that came before it. The latest iOS it got was 10.3.4, which is pretty much unusable in 2024 without jailbreaks. You would need to find tweaks to try and fix apps that are broken, and force the app store to serve you older versions of apps. It’s possible to try and make it usable but I do honestly think it’s a losing battle as more and more apps update and break compatibility.
If you’re really into the form factor of the 5c you could find a used SE 1st gen which got to iOS 15 but still looks exactly like an iPhone 5, as these are still very daily drivable without jailbreaks.
Otherwise, I’d usually say its best to keep your S7 going, and install custom ROMs like LineageOS to keep it going further. If an Android phone has mainstream ROM support (by LineageOS or hobbyists on XDA Developers) it’s usually much easier to keep it going for longer than an iPhone, and it’s usually more secure as you’re getting OS updates again.
My iPhone 4s is a proof of concept device that shows it’s possible to have it work with some services today (Fediverse via old.Lemmy.world, Spotify, Discord, iMessage, Reddit via Narwhal, Maps, Telegram, YouTube via m.youtube.com, and Hacker News) but it is a very slow and patience testing experience in nearly all of those. I would not consider my 4s daily drivable and it’s exactly why I use it for a distraction free music player with modern conveniences.
Edit: I should mention that a community I frequented on Reddit was r/LegacyJailbreak, so they will have much further information for you should you want to ultimately repair and reuse your iPhone 5c
After your post I think I wouldn’t go through the trouble of repairing that 5c. I now remember how it was always running out of storage space. So it wasn’t an ideal phone, even if it was more comfortable to hold.
I’m actually considering looking for a Samsung Galaxy S4 now since there seem to be more recent versions of LineageOS for them.
All the best with that. I have a Galaxy S5 and it is still daily drivable, although it lives it’s retirement years as a dashcam that I can quickly deploy in any car should I need it.
It’s not. 90% of my phone usage is calling, text messages, FM radio, taking quick photos, and checking the weather. The rest is the occasional browsing. I haven’t really found the need to do more with my phone.
Google is introducing planned obsolesence in Fitbit
Have they? In what way?
They’ve done good work for Android and Pixel, promising 7 years of updates for the latest Pixels. Samsung has also gotten much better about this with their recent phones. That’s going to put a huge dent in the e-waste as Android phones have surely been heavy contributors (certainly much higher than fitbit).
TVs get bricked with firmware upgrades.
What TVs? Vizio, Hisense, the Chinese junk budget brands?
Very sympathetic to your e-waste concerns; I think the source of the problem is actually getting better not worse though. In general, the mobile tech sector is “growing up” and supporting products longer.
This is speculation by Ars Technica. Essentially, a recent firmware upgrade seems to have drastically lowered the battery life of some models. In addition, they are removing all third-party apps in the EU in response to the DMA.
What TVs? Vizio, Hisense, the Chinese junk budget brands?
Most recently Roku. But I used a TV only as an example. A year ago, an OTA upgrade bricked microwave ovens. Google’s history of bricking its smart home products goes back to at least 2016, companies like Wink threaten to brick your devices unless you suddenly start paying a monthly fee on top of your purchase price “for life”, there were reports of smart bulbs or thermostats ceasing working as well.
The following is pure speculation on my part: I think we’re at the beginning of a huge wave of planned obsolescence. Everyone and their mother are now training AI’s, and they want their customers to replace older products, which don’t support AI integration, with new ones. They’ll soon stop supporting the older devices or outright bricking them, to force people to buy the new ones.
This is speculation by Ars Technica. Essentially, a recent firmware upgrade seems to have drastically lowered the battery life of some models. In addition, they are removing all third-party apps in the EU in response to the DMA.
Sounds like it’s more speculation from users published by Ars … which is fair but also needs to be taken to some degree with a grain of salt. This is not expert commentary, this is personal anecdote. It’s a grievance I have with a lot of media, e.g., interviewing random people on the street for “their take” … they don’t necessarily know what they’re talking about.
I’d flag this as concerning but, it’s also not uncommon for updates to devices to require more resources, with requires more power and can definitely be done accidentally. There’s the doomer argument that it’s all malicious planned obsolesced under the guise of plausible deniability … but I wouldn’t be so sure. They’re selling subscriptions for fitbit, for a subscription model to work, the fitbit needs to work; it’s against their own interest in continued revenue to brick the devices.
Google does need better support in general; it’s not uncommon for bugs to go unfixed for way longer than should be acceptable.
Most recently Roku.
That’s not a bricking from a firmware upgrade; it is scummy though.
Google’s history of bricking its smart home products goes back to at least 2016
They’ve discontinued products they haven’t launched but purchased, that’s not quite the same thing. Even some very old nest cams are still working just fine (again it’s against their best interest to sell subscriptions and have devices that they’re selling subscriptions for dropped from support/virus ridden/etc). That’s a bit scummy but it does make sense from a “we want some of their technology but don’t want to maintain their code/redevelop the product on our software.” Every piece of hardware they’ve done this on has seemed incredibly niche to me as well (i.e., not something you’re going to find in your local department store).
The exception to that was their nest home security system, which IIRC they allowed users to pivot into an ADT system (and I vaguely recall offering some level of refunds).
Their Stadia controllers they provided a free tool to convert into generic Bluetooth controllers after shutdown… Literally nothing to gain from that except perhaps some PR.
There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary for Google bricking perfectly good devices “just because.”
Wink threaten to brick your devices unless you suddenly start paying a monthly fee on top of your purchase price “for life”
Yeah, this is the typical “startup made a bad business decision and is now trying to squeeze users.” I hate it as much as you do (but it’s not Google, Samsung, or generally speaking the mobile sector/big tech/mainstream tech).
The following is pure speculation on my part: I think we’re at the beginning of a huge wave of planned obsolescence. Everyone and their mother are now training AI’s, and they want their customers to replace older products, which don’t support AI integration, with new ones. They’ll soon stop supporting the older devices or outright bricking them, to force people to buy the new ones.
Big “press X to doubt” from me, primarily because of the desire to sell subscriptions. I think more likely Google (as an example) will keep everything they can working and then sell Gemini subscriptions on e.g., the nest hub + make new nest hubs with attractive features.
Speculation on my part but I think Google invested in Fuschia (and ported tons of legacy devices in the Nest ecosystem) specifically because they wanted to reduce the security risk and maintenance burden of keeping old devices going (to maximize subscription revenue).
Literally just gave multiple examples. If you want a research paper, you aren’t going to find it.
You said some things that I’m calling b.s. on, as far “… That’s going to put a huge dent in the e-waste …” goes.
If anything they’re supporting hardware with driver/OS updates less now than before.
I have a good working Android tablet that I’ve replaced the batteries on twice that I now can no longer use because the OS won’t get updated any more (security risk, etc.). Perfectly working, has to go in the trash.
If anything they’re supporting hardware with driver/OS updates less now than before.
That is literally false information. Prior to the last year there has been no version of Android that has more than 4 years of operating system security updates, before that it was common to be 3 and before that 2. They bumped it to 7.
I have a good working Android tablet that I’ve replaced the batteries on twice that I now can no longer use because the OS won’t get updated any more (security risk, etc.). Perfectly working, has to go in the trash.
Literally what I just explained they’ve been working to change, and have changed for their latest devices.
No, its not. It was not extended to existing hardware that is still functioning. Product support should last as long as the product is functional.
Stop astroturfing. Manufacturers need constant sales of their products, so they go out of the way to make sure longevity doesn’t happen, and ewaste is the results.
Talk to me when right to repair is a real thing everywhere legally, and is supported by the manufacturers.
Fitbits that aren’t the latest model have battery lives shorter than 12 hours (many users reporting 6 hours or less) after a firmware update. It’s a well-reported issue on the fitbit community.
And not to be rude but have you used any electronics released in the past decade? Battery life always goes to crap almost exactly 2 years after purchase, and no one releases products with replaceable batteries. Appliances use plastic parts and come with a plethora of unnecessary features all on one circuit board so when one feature breaks the appliance is dead, with replacement parts being almost as costly as a new appliance. Inkjet printers refuse to work without all the colors being full, even to the point of not scanning when out of ink. There’s even a story going around about a business-class HP printer that stopped working (full on ink) because the credit card attached to the ink subscription expired.
It’s gone long past planned obsolescence at this point. Whether it’s software or hardware, companies want you subscribed for life. Anything less and they break the devices that were able to dupe you into thinking you owned.
Battery life always goes to crap almost exactly 2 years after purchase
Disposable battery technology is disposable. We don’t have truly rechargable batteries yet … and the EV batteries only last longer (AFAIK) because they’ve got better cooling systems and are higher grade – read more expensive – components.
Appliances use plastic parts and come with a plethora of unnecessary features all on one circuit board so when one feature breaks the appliance is dead
That’s not the entire story there … it’s just cheaper to make it one board. You can eliminate some points of failure by using one board as well.
It’s definitely ridiculous appliance companies aren’t providing parts. I’d also like to point out … I was specifically responding to the widespread e-waste from the mobile devices sector. Not “all things that could possible become e-waste in 2024.” GUARANTEED planned obselence is what has been happening there for years with “2 years of device security updates” and that nonsense is ending.
There’s even a story going around about a business-class HP printer
Yeah, don’t buy HP.
It’s gone long past planned obsolescence at this point. Whether it’s software or hardware, companies want you subscribed for life. Anything less and they break the devices that were able to dupe you into thinking you owned.
Subscriptions aren’t necessarily the enemy when it comes to e-waste. They’re bad for ownership, but they’re not bad for planned obsolescence and e-waste. If your subscribers need your device to keep working to keep paying you, you’ve got a much stronger incentive to keep the device working vs just abandoning it.
This already happened with software, there really isn’t “buy once then buy again and again and again” software anymore, the vast majority of software has gone subscription. This is also true of online games like CSGO, Hunt Showdown, Fortnite, etc.
It’s just a matter of making things into subscriptions that are mutually beneficial. Your printer being an InkJet printer with a vendor locked in subscription that doesn’t offer any real service is absurd and should be illegal. Your smart home camera having a subscription to store cloud video, provide new features and security updates … that’s a reasonable service that a lot of “normal” people don’t want to do themselves (and incentivizes manufactures to keep their devices working so you keep paying).
A big part of the problem with e-waste is that companies setup fancy features to sell a product but didn’t plan for how to support that product’s software for the life of the product (because they’re not making any more after the point of sale) … so we end up with a very insecure piece of unserviceable e-waste.
Don’t get me wrong we’ve still got a long way to go before we find a solution that handles the problem for all the various devices being manufactured these days. However, credit where it’s due the mobile devices sector / “big tech” is doing better than they have for the last 15 years, and that’s all I’m trying to contest. There IS change happening.
Just another byproduct of enshittification. Novadays, a top-end Garmin watch lasts about as long as a Chinese watch of a brand with random characters you buy off Amazon. Google is introducing planned obsolesence in Fitbit. Banking apps are beginning to require phones that are no more than 4 years old. TVs get bricked with firmware upgrades. So, consumers are trained to buy cheapest, least reliable electronics, because over time they’ll provide more value than top-end items which used to last much longer. (This was written on a 13 years old phone. I may not have access to my banking app anymore, but otherwise it works for everything I need, and I haven’t contributed to e-waste in this regard. Not that the pollution angle was my reason to keep the phone, but it’s a nice extra bonus.)
I can guarantee this user is not using an iPhone from 2011 - the iPhone 4s went to shit after the first few years of updates
Samsung Galaxy S2. With a replaceable battery and good external cover, that thing can last for a long time. I did contribute to e-waste by replacing the battery three times so far, but that’s all.
I can guarantee that any Android phone with a good modding community can last this much. He’s probably using Samsung galaxy s series or those old Google Nexus phone.
My phone’s official support stopped at Android 10 yet I’m currently running Android 14 with the help of custom rom.
Hello! Not sure if the screenshot will attach to this comment but I was able to successfully log into Lemmy and I’m replying to your comment from my iPhone 4s.
With all of this being said and done, I do agree that OP is not likely to be using an iPhone. An Android phone from this period is way more usable than this iPhone even with all the hacks I’ve done to it.
Haha that’s pretty awesome! Maybe I was too quick to judge :-D
Don’t be so certain. Using jailbreaks the 4s can be downgraded to either 8.4.1 or 6.1.3. My own one is on 8.4.1 and old.Lemmy.world renders perfectly on it. I’ll grab it actually and see if I can reply to this comment.
I’ve always thought I had a 4s laying around. But just checked and it’s a 5c. With a broken screen. Would that be worth to have fixed and try to jailbreak to use it in 2024?
Most I do is Whatsapp, Lemmy, YouTube and browse the web. Casually.
I have a Galaxy S7 right now but it has never been comfortable to hold for me and the battery is getting old.
You could do the screen replacement yourself which honestly isn’t too difficult if you follow a repair guide such as the ones iFixit make available. You may find it cheaper to find an iCloud locked 5c with a functional screen than to buy a replacement screen itself, and you have spare parts should you need them.
However, I believe the 5c was a bit of an underwhelming phone because it was effectively the same as the iPhone 5 that came before it. The latest iOS it got was 10.3.4, which is pretty much unusable in 2024 without jailbreaks. You would need to find tweaks to try and fix apps that are broken, and force the app store to serve you older versions of apps. It’s possible to try and make it usable but I do honestly think it’s a losing battle as more and more apps update and break compatibility.
If you’re really into the form factor of the 5c you could find a used SE 1st gen which got to iOS 15 but still looks exactly like an iPhone 5, as these are still very daily drivable without jailbreaks.
Otherwise, I’d usually say its best to keep your S7 going, and install custom ROMs like LineageOS to keep it going further. If an Android phone has mainstream ROM support (by LineageOS or hobbyists on XDA Developers) it’s usually much easier to keep it going for longer than an iPhone, and it’s usually more secure as you’re getting OS updates again.
My iPhone 4s is a proof of concept device that shows it’s possible to have it work with some services today (Fediverse via old.Lemmy.world, Spotify, Discord, iMessage, Reddit via Narwhal, Maps, Telegram, YouTube via m.youtube.com, and Hacker News) but it is a very slow and patience testing experience in nearly all of those. I would not consider my 4s daily drivable and it’s exactly why I use it for a distraction free music player with modern conveniences.
Edit: I should mention that a community I frequented on Reddit was r/LegacyJailbreak, so they will have much further information for you should you want to ultimately repair and reuse your iPhone 5c
Thanks for your comment. That’s interesting.
After your post I think I wouldn’t go through the trouble of repairing that 5c. I now remember how it was always running out of storage space. So it wasn’t an ideal phone, even if it was more comfortable to hold. I’m actually considering looking for a Samsung Galaxy S4 now since there seem to be more recent versions of LineageOS for them.
All the best with that. I have a Galaxy S5 and it is still daily drivable, although it lives it’s retirement years as a dashcam that I can quickly deploy in any car should I need it.
what phone do you use?
13 years old? What? Even with custom ROMs, how is that still running modern apps?
It’s not. 90% of my phone usage is calling, text messages, FM radio, taking quick photos, and checking the weather. The rest is the occasional browsing. I haven’t really found the need to do more with my phone.
That is an old phone! Makes me wish my OnePlus One did not break. I miss that phone, I would probably still be using it if it hadn’t.
Have they? In what way?
They’ve done good work for Android and Pixel, promising 7 years of updates for the latest Pixels. Samsung has also gotten much better about this with their recent phones. That’s going to put a huge dent in the e-waste as Android phones have surely been heavy contributors (certainly much higher than fitbit).
What TVs? Vizio, Hisense, the Chinese junk budget brands?
Very sympathetic to your e-waste concerns; I think the source of the problem is actually getting better not worse though. In general, the mobile tech sector is “growing up” and supporting products longer.
This is speculation by Ars Technica. Essentially, a recent firmware upgrade seems to have drastically lowered the battery life of some models. In addition, they are removing all third-party apps in the EU in response to the DMA.
Most recently Roku. But I used a TV only as an example. A year ago, an OTA upgrade bricked microwave ovens. Google’s history of bricking its smart home products goes back to at least 2016, companies like Wink threaten to brick your devices unless you suddenly start paying a monthly fee on top of your purchase price “for life”, there were reports of smart bulbs or thermostats ceasing working as well.
The following is pure speculation on my part: I think we’re at the beginning of a huge wave of planned obsolescence. Everyone and their mother are now training AI’s, and they want their customers to replace older products, which don’t support AI integration, with new ones. They’ll soon stop supporting the older devices or outright bricking them, to force people to buy the new ones.
Sounds like it’s more speculation from users published by Ars … which is fair but also needs to be taken to some degree with a grain of salt. This is not expert commentary, this is personal anecdote. It’s a grievance I have with a lot of media, e.g., interviewing random people on the street for “their take” … they don’t necessarily know what they’re talking about.
I’d flag this as concerning but, it’s also not uncommon for updates to devices to require more resources, with requires more power and can definitely be done accidentally. There’s the doomer argument that it’s all malicious planned obsolesced under the guise of plausible deniability … but I wouldn’t be so sure. They’re selling subscriptions for fitbit, for a subscription model to work, the fitbit needs to work; it’s against their own interest in continued revenue to brick the devices.
Google does need better support in general; it’s not uncommon for bugs to go unfixed for way longer than should be acceptable.
That’s not a bricking from a firmware upgrade; it is scummy though.
They’ve discontinued products they haven’t launched but purchased, that’s not quite the same thing. Even some very old nest cams are still working just fine (again it’s against their best interest to sell subscriptions and have devices that they’re selling subscriptions for dropped from support/virus ridden/etc). That’s a bit scummy but it does make sense from a “we want some of their technology but don’t want to maintain their code/redevelop the product on our software.” Every piece of hardware they’ve done this on has seemed incredibly niche to me as well (i.e., not something you’re going to find in your local department store).
The exception to that was their nest home security system, which IIRC they allowed users to pivot into an ADT system (and I vaguely recall offering some level of refunds).
Their Stadia controllers they provided a free tool to convert into generic Bluetooth controllers after shutdown… Literally nothing to gain from that except perhaps some PR.
There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary for Google bricking perfectly good devices “just because.”
Yeah, this is the typical “startup made a bad business decision and is now trying to squeeze users.” I hate it as much as you do (but it’s not Google, Samsung, or generally speaking the mobile sector/big tech/mainstream tech).
Big “press X to doubt” from me, primarily because of the desire to sell subscriptions. I think more likely Google (as an example) will keep everything they can working and then sell Gemini subscriptions on e.g., the nest hub + make new nest hubs with attractive features.
Speculation on my part but I think Google invested in Fuschia (and ported tons of legacy devices in the Nest ecosystem) specifically because they wanted to reduce the security risk and maintenance burden of keeping old devices going (to maximize subscription revenue).
[Citation required.]
Literally just gave multiple examples. If you want a research paper, you aren’t going to find it.
You said some things that I’m calling b.s. on, as far “… That’s going to put a huge dent in the e-waste …” goes.
If anything they’re supporting hardware with driver/OS updates less now than before.
I have a good working Android tablet that I’ve replaced the batteries on twice that I now can no longer use because the OS won’t get updated any more (security risk, etc.). Perfectly working, has to go in the trash.
That is literally false information. Prior to the last year there has been no version of Android that has more than 4 years of operating system security updates, before that it was common to be 3 and before that 2. They bumped it to 7.
Literally what I just explained they’ve been working to change, and have changed for their latest devices.
No, its not. It was not extended to existing hardware that is still functioning. Product support should last as long as the product is functional.
Stop astroturfing. Manufacturers need constant sales of their products, so they go out of the way to make sure longevity doesn’t happen, and ewaste is the results.
Talk to me when right to repair is a real thing everywhere legally, and is supported by the manufacturers.
Fitbits that aren’t the latest model have battery lives shorter than 12 hours (many users reporting 6 hours or less) after a firmware update. It’s a well-reported issue on the fitbit community.
And not to be rude but have you used any electronics released in the past decade? Battery life always goes to crap almost exactly 2 years after purchase, and no one releases products with replaceable batteries. Appliances use plastic parts and come with a plethora of unnecessary features all on one circuit board so when one feature breaks the appliance is dead, with replacement parts being almost as costly as a new appliance. Inkjet printers refuse to work without all the colors being full, even to the point of not scanning when out of ink. There’s even a story going around about a business-class HP printer that stopped working (full on ink) because the credit card attached to the ink subscription expired.
It’s gone long past planned obsolescence at this point. Whether it’s software or hardware, companies want you subscribed for life. Anything less and they break the devices that were able to dupe you into thinking you owned.
Disposable battery technology is disposable. We don’t have truly rechargable batteries yet … and the EV batteries only last longer (AFAIK) because they’ve got better cooling systems and are higher grade – read more expensive – components.
That’s not the entire story there … it’s just cheaper to make it one board. You can eliminate some points of failure by using one board as well.
It’s definitely ridiculous appliance companies aren’t providing parts. I’d also like to point out … I was specifically responding to the widespread e-waste from the mobile devices sector. Not “all things that could possible become e-waste in 2024.” GUARANTEED planned obselence is what has been happening there for years with “2 years of device security updates” and that nonsense is ending.
Yeah, don’t buy HP.
Subscriptions aren’t necessarily the enemy when it comes to e-waste. They’re bad for ownership, but they’re not bad for planned obsolescence and e-waste. If your subscribers need your device to keep working to keep paying you, you’ve got a much stronger incentive to keep the device working vs just abandoning it.
This already happened with software, there really isn’t “buy once then buy again and again and again” software anymore, the vast majority of software has gone subscription. This is also true of online games like CSGO, Hunt Showdown, Fortnite, etc.
It’s just a matter of making things into subscriptions that are mutually beneficial. Your printer being an InkJet printer with a vendor locked in subscription that doesn’t offer any real service is absurd and should be illegal. Your smart home camera having a subscription to store cloud video, provide new features and security updates … that’s a reasonable service that a lot of “normal” people don’t want to do themselves (and incentivizes manufactures to keep their devices working so you keep paying).
A big part of the problem with e-waste is that companies setup fancy features to sell a product but didn’t plan for how to support that product’s software for the life of the product (because they’re not making any more after the point of sale) … so we end up with a very insecure piece of unserviceable e-waste.
Don’t get me wrong we’ve still got a long way to go before we find a solution that handles the problem for all the various devices being manufactured these days. However, credit where it’s due the mobile devices sector / “big tech” is doing better than they have for the last 15 years, and that’s all I’m trying to contest. There IS change happening.