If it really was less effort to move to Linux, a majority of people would have already.
Oh yeah, because the customer is always perfectly knowledgeable and rational. People absolutely never spend more money to get an inferior product.
Have you tried Linux recently (or at all)? Most distros hold your hand. If anything, most of them hold your hand more than Windows. The installation is very easy, and it doesn’t bug you with a Microsoft account, MS Office, or One Cloud. It’s not trying to sell you a bunch of shit you don’t need because it’s not profiting off of you. You just select what drive you want to install it on (assuming you have an empty one) and let it do it’s thing, and you’re done.
Yes I use Linux daily. I don’t understand why people think I don’t use Linux when I state valid points against it for the regular person.
I have a server running Debian and a steam deck, thanks.
Thank you for re wording my first point. The point was most customers don’t have a clue.
So if you don’t have a clue, do you buy the expensive yet inferior product for ease of use, or spend hours learning stuff you don’t want to, to get the free, and better product?
If the world worked like that, Apple wouldn’t be a company, and Linux would have more then %4 of the “market”.
No, no Linux distro holds your hand like a OS that comes preinstalled on your PC.
Easy to use, and baby proofing are two VERY different things. Remember when you could delete system32 and destroy your Windows installation? Sure you still can, but Windows will do it’s best to prevent that, now. You need to know how to now. Unlike any Linux distro. You want to destroy your Linux distro? go ahead, you won’t even get a warning.
And yes for people who know what they are doing, installing any os is easy. For someone who doesn’t they can’t “just install linux” the first thing they need to do, is pick their distro. That alone is a massive turn off for alot of people.
My entire argument with every point iv brought up is for the people who don’t find pcs easy, it’s not easy for them.
So if you don’t have a clue, do you buy the expensive yet inferior product for ease of use, or spend hours learning stuff you don’t want to, to get the free, and better product?
If you are willing to learn how to hack Windows to work the way you want it to, the better solution is to switch to Linux. The person I replied to is knowledgeable enough to disable his computer’s ability to update. They are not an average user. Any user who can manage what they did will have a trivial time switching to Linux.
No, no Linux distro holds your hand like a OS that comes preinstalled on your PC.
No shit. It holds your hand more than what this user did, and it holds your hand more than installing Windows, which you’ll need to do for 11 to switch. It being pre-installed is exactly the same as someone installing it for their parents, or whatever you said in your other comment with a negative connotation.
I don’t know why people always need to boil things down to what the absolute dumbest least technical user who doesn’t have help can do when they weren’t what’s being discussed. This was a user on Lemmy who has modified Windows to not update. They are spending more effort to stay on Windows than it’d take to switch to Linux, like I implied with my first comment.
I feel like all of your arguments are just from your experience only.
Yes, instead of moving my gaming pc from Windows to Linux, I spent maybe 30 mins researching what “atlasOS” really was.
When I revived my old gaming pc to use as a server I spent DAYS researching Windows server vs a wide range of Linux distros. I did it because I wanted too. I’m in the %4 of pc users who wanted to use Linux. 96% of people haven’t, because they don’t want to.
And that’s really what it boils down to, the simplest little dumb thing, that’s literally all it takes to prevent someone from pulling the plug. It’s extremely common, and not just limited to IT stuff. I’ll try to reframe my arguments to something even more generic that almost everyone has experienced.
Cars. Do you drive? What is your drive terrain? Do you have an automatic transmission, or is it standard?
Manual transmission cars are cheaper, offer more control of the vehicle, better on gas, and just until recently were more reliable then an automatic.
So why is it manual cars are disappearing if it is the better way to drive?
Well a few reaons:
While easy to drive, it is hard to learn, and there is alot to learn, don’t ride the clutch, how to start moving on a hill, how to start smooth, you have to constantly be changing gears in traffic, more prone to bad shifts, the car requires more attention, ect, ect.
Windows/Mac/Chrome OS are the automatics of the OS world. Linux is the manual.
I feel like all of your arguments are just from your experience only.
Personal experience and those that I’ve heard and seen, sure. As are all of our opinions. I saw the other day someone using Debian (I think, maybe it was another distro) while avoiding the terminal. You can’t even do that with Windows.
96% of people haven’t, because they don’t want to.
That is not an accurate statement. The vast majority haven’t even considered that there’s another option, besides Mac maybe if they’re aware of that. It’s like saying 99% of people aren’t billionaires because they don’t want to be. They didn’t make a choice.
For your car analogy, I agree with it. It’s pretty accurate. The issue is this person was doing fairly serious maintenance of his automatic car. He wasn’t just driving it around because it’s easier. They spent time gaining knowledge and experience because they’re automatic was breaking down in a way the manual wouldn’t have had issue with. They wouldn’t have much trouble making the switch.
Fine, let’s go back to your original argument of it would be easier to switch to Linux then disable windows updates.
So I’ll tell you my experience switching my server from Windows server 2018 to Debain.
The sever has 4 hdds and 2 sdds.
I kept 1 ssd exclusively for the OS incase it breaks, I can format without import data loss quickly.
Windows likes to use the NTFS for data storage, so I had all my drives formated as such. Anyways I start the install, a thing iv done countless times.
Install went flawless. Debain was up and running in like 15 mins. Super simple. So I start to get it setup the way I want. As I go to add my ssds and hdds I start having issues. Linux doesn’t natively support NTFS. I didn’t realize that at the time. I didn’t see anything about that before I started the install.
I know I could get some wonky work around that let’s Linux read/write to NTFS, but why do that when there is a file format that Windows and Linux can both use? Fat32. I wanna do it right, so I do.
So now I got to unplug all my drives, connect them to an external usb to hdd, transfer the data to another HD in my gaming pc, format the drive, put the data back into the drive, mount and reconnect it back to the server pc. I had to do that for 4 drives. Ranging from 120 gig to 4tb. The other ssd I had to remove one from my gaming pc and server m.2 slot, install the server one, backup data, format, pit data back on, remove from m.2 slot, reinstall both ssds.
All of that, just to have a Linux server that could natively handle the default windows file format.
Was it worth it? Yes, but it would have been much easier to tolerate Windows.
I consider myself very experienced with tech stuff and I still messed this up. I could have prevented this by figuring out storage before the format, but that one peice of missing info caused all of that.
I won’t even start on all the small tedious things I have to on Linux VS doing the same thing on Windows. (I wish g hub was able to run on linux)
All of that, just to have a Linux server that could natively handle the default windows file format.
All of that has nothing to do with standard operation of Linux. I also switched from Windows, and I haven’t reformatted two of my drives. They work perfectly fine. They are NTFS. I have used them on Ubuntu, Fedora, and now Garuda. I didn’t have to install any other packages or anything for them to work. Debian probably just doesn’t include it by default, but every distro I’ve tried does. Linux doesn’t natively support many things, which is why distros include a lot.
The average Windows user switching their computer will probably choose a desktop focused distro that will include this support by default. It won’t be an issue, and if it is then it’s only a time-sink, not difficulty, as you move files to storage temporarily while you reformat.
I won’t even start on all the small tedious things I have to on Linux VS doing the same thing on Windows. (I wish g hub was able to run on linux)
Yeah, some things are annoying, but some things suck on Windows too. Have you ever edited your registries on Windows (I’m sure the answer is yes.) It’s not a fun process, and you can fuck things up easily. There’s no need to do things like that on Linux.
As for G-Hub, yeah it sucks it doesn’t work, but there’s Solaar that does most of it, just in a harder to use package. That’s a choice by Logitech to not support Linux though, not a difficulty intrinsic to Linux. They will support it if more people change over.
So much effort to just keep using the same shitty piece of software.
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Oh yeah, because the customer is always perfectly knowledgeable and rational. People absolutely never spend more money to get an inferior product.
Have you tried Linux recently (or at all)? Most distros hold your hand. If anything, most of them hold your hand more than Windows. The installation is very easy, and it doesn’t bug you with a Microsoft account, MS Office, or One Cloud. It’s not trying to sell you a bunch of shit you don’t need because it’s not profiting off of you. You just select what drive you want to install it on (assuming you have an empty one) and let it do it’s thing, and you’re done.
Yes I use Linux daily. I don’t understand why people think I don’t use Linux when I state valid points against it for the regular person.
I have a server running Debian and a steam deck, thanks.
Thank you for re wording my first point. The point was most customers don’t have a clue. So if you don’t have a clue, do you buy the expensive yet inferior product for ease of use, or spend hours learning stuff you don’t want to, to get the free, and better product? If the world worked like that, Apple wouldn’t be a company, and Linux would have more then %4 of the “market”.
No, no Linux distro holds your hand like a OS that comes preinstalled on your PC. Easy to use, and baby proofing are two VERY different things. Remember when you could delete system32 and destroy your Windows installation? Sure you still can, but Windows will do it’s best to prevent that, now. You need to know how to now. Unlike any Linux distro. You want to destroy your Linux distro? go ahead, you won’t even get a warning.
And yes for people who know what they are doing, installing any os is easy. For someone who doesn’t they can’t “just install linux” the first thing they need to do, is pick their distro. That alone is a massive turn off for alot of people.
My entire argument with every point iv brought up is for the people who don’t find pcs easy, it’s not easy for them.
If you are willing to learn how to hack Windows to work the way you want it to, the better solution is to switch to Linux. The person I replied to is knowledgeable enough to disable his computer’s ability to update. They are not an average user. Any user who can manage what they did will have a trivial time switching to Linux.
No shit. It holds your hand more than what this user did, and it holds your hand more than installing Windows, which you’ll need to do for 11 to switch. It being pre-installed is exactly the same as someone installing it for their parents, or whatever you said in your other comment with a negative connotation.
I don’t know why people always need to boil things down to what the absolute dumbest least technical user who doesn’t have help can do when they weren’t what’s being discussed. This was a user on Lemmy who has modified Windows to not update. They are spending more effort to stay on Windows than it’d take to switch to Linux, like I implied with my first comment.
I feel like all of your arguments are just from your experience only.
Yes, instead of moving my gaming pc from Windows to Linux, I spent maybe 30 mins researching what “atlasOS” really was. When I revived my old gaming pc to use as a server I spent DAYS researching Windows server vs a wide range of Linux distros. I did it because I wanted too. I’m in the %4 of pc users who wanted to use Linux. 96% of people haven’t, because they don’t want to.
And that’s really what it boils down to, the simplest little dumb thing, that’s literally all it takes to prevent someone from pulling the plug. It’s extremely common, and not just limited to IT stuff. I’ll try to reframe my arguments to something even more generic that almost everyone has experienced.
Cars. Do you drive? What is your drive terrain? Do you have an automatic transmission, or is it standard? Manual transmission cars are cheaper, offer more control of the vehicle, better on gas, and just until recently were more reliable then an automatic.
So why is it manual cars are disappearing if it is the better way to drive? Well a few reaons: While easy to drive, it is hard to learn, and there is alot to learn, don’t ride the clutch, how to start moving on a hill, how to start smooth, you have to constantly be changing gears in traffic, more prone to bad shifts, the car requires more attention, ect, ect.
Windows/Mac/Chrome OS are the automatics of the OS world. Linux is the manual.
Personal experience and those that I’ve heard and seen, sure. As are all of our opinions. I saw the other day someone using Debian (I think, maybe it was another distro) while avoiding the terminal. You can’t even do that with Windows.
That is not an accurate statement. The vast majority haven’t even considered that there’s another option, besides Mac maybe if they’re aware of that. It’s like saying 99% of people aren’t billionaires because they don’t want to be. They didn’t make a choice.
For your car analogy, I agree with it. It’s pretty accurate. The issue is this person was doing fairly serious maintenance of his automatic car. He wasn’t just driving it around because it’s easier. They spent time gaining knowledge and experience because they’re automatic was breaking down in a way the manual wouldn’t have had issue with. They wouldn’t have much trouble making the switch.
Fine, let’s go back to your original argument of it would be easier to switch to Linux then disable windows updates.
So I’ll tell you my experience switching my server from Windows server 2018 to Debain.
The sever has 4 hdds and 2 sdds. I kept 1 ssd exclusively for the OS incase it breaks, I can format without import data loss quickly.
Windows likes to use the NTFS for data storage, so I had all my drives formated as such. Anyways I start the install, a thing iv done countless times.
Install went flawless. Debain was up and running in like 15 mins. Super simple. So I start to get it setup the way I want. As I go to add my ssds and hdds I start having issues. Linux doesn’t natively support NTFS. I didn’t realize that at the time. I didn’t see anything about that before I started the install.
I know I could get some wonky work around that let’s Linux read/write to NTFS, but why do that when there is a file format that Windows and Linux can both use? Fat32. I wanna do it right, so I do.
So now I got to unplug all my drives, connect them to an external usb to hdd, transfer the data to another HD in my gaming pc, format the drive, put the data back into the drive, mount and reconnect it back to the server pc. I had to do that for 4 drives. Ranging from 120 gig to 4tb. The other ssd I had to remove one from my gaming pc and server m.2 slot, install the server one, backup data, format, pit data back on, remove from m.2 slot, reinstall both ssds.
All of that, just to have a Linux server that could natively handle the default windows file format.
Was it worth it? Yes, but it would have been much easier to tolerate Windows.
I consider myself very experienced with tech stuff and I still messed this up. I could have prevented this by figuring out storage before the format, but that one peice of missing info caused all of that.
I won’t even start on all the small tedious things I have to on Linux VS doing the same thing on Windows. (I wish g hub was able to run on linux)
It’s never as simple as “switching to Linux”.
All of that has nothing to do with standard operation of Linux. I also switched from Windows, and I haven’t reformatted two of my drives. They work perfectly fine. They are NTFS. I have used them on Ubuntu, Fedora, and now Garuda. I didn’t have to install any other packages or anything for them to work. Debian probably just doesn’t include it by default, but every distro I’ve tried does. Linux doesn’t natively support many things, which is why distros include a lot.
The average Windows user switching their computer will probably choose a desktop focused distro that will include this support by default. It won’t be an issue, and if it is then it’s only a time-sink, not difficulty, as you move files to storage temporarily while you reformat.
Yeah, some things are annoying, but some things suck on Windows too. Have you ever edited your registries on Windows (I’m sure the answer is yes.) It’s not a fun process, and you can fuck things up easily. There’s no need to do things like that on Linux.
As for G-Hub, yeah it sucks it doesn’t work, but there’s Solaar that does most of it, just in a harder to use package. That’s a choice by Logitech to not support Linux though, not a difficulty intrinsic to Linux. They will support it if more people change over.