edit: this is now closed future comments won’t be counted
I keep seeing this instance is overrun with tankies so hey, lets do an informal survey like I’ve seen on hexbear
respond with YES or NO in the first line of your comment and i’ll tally everything in a couple of days, lets say I’ll try and collect everything on the sunday the 9th (10+gmt sorry)
not sure thisll work, be nice, have fun
NO. Communism is interesting, but I’m heavily anti-authoritarian.
Tankie is an empty signifier
That is to say, it’s a label that can be used to describe an array of different and conflicting ideas, values, and identities. Because of this it serves as an obfuscatory device rather than a communicative one. The sub-logic becomes tankie = bad, so if someone I don’t like = tankie, then person I don’t like = bad.
Almost none of us were alive when Khrushchev rolled tanks into Hungary. Most MLs aren’t particularly fond of Khrushchev.
It’s made a resurgence in this new, weird context because most of the terms used during the previous red scares lost their power through similar misuse. It’s become unfashionable to hate on leftism in progressive spaces, doing so using old terminology makes you sound like a fox news conservative. But you can do the same thing by calling it this instead.
Almost none of us were alive when Hitler was alive.
You should still have a clear and simple opinion of anything Hitler is known for.
The reason that MovingThrowaway said ‘Almost none of us were alive when Khrushchev rolled tanks into Hungary’ is that certain British socialists coined the pejorative ‘tanky’ to nickname communists who approved of the Warsaw Pact intervention in the Hungarian People’s Republic (and later, the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic), but hardly anybody uses the pejorative this way anymore.
In practice, application now varies widely, from approving of the Bolsheviki to opposing the Ukrainian government to suggesting that maybe North Korean politicians think and behave like ordinary human beings. The contemporary criteria are so variable that many would argue that the term is too vague to be useful.
Tankie originally referred to authoritarian communists, but over the past couple of years I’ve seen it referred to, like, anyone significantly to the left of the Democratic Party. Former suck, very much aspire to be part of the latter.
I’m going to work hard to redefine ‘Tankie’ as someone who cosplays as a Decepticon, just so that political discourse becomes even more intolerably meaningless.
/s I’m not going to do this, it would take effort.
“Tankies” is the title of a YA dystopia novel by Scott Westerfeld.
NO. We have had enough already
Maybe I am… or maybe we’re all tankies now. What’s the difference?
I don’t consider myself a tankie, because I’m an anarcho-syndicalist.
I’ve been called a tankie for suggesting that workers should organize tenant unions to kill the apartment bidding wars in NYC. I’ve been called a tankie for pointing out that their image of a tankie needs to almost have power to be any kind of threat worth warning against, and there are no tankies anywhere near power with the global rise of fascism. I’ve been called a tankie for asking someone to clarify what they meant by tankie. I’ve been told that scientific socialism both is and is not tankie behavior. The term is utterly meaningless. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s part of a 3rd red scare in an effort to sow division amongst the anticapitalist left.
I am successful, so no.
<(YES.)Anarchist. I look forward to being kill by tankies moments after the revolution.
Idk. I’m really bad at history and such cause I never pay attention. I used to take everything I saw on the internet at face value, so I decided to slow down on current news. Doesn’t help that I like programming and video games a lot, so I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about world events.
I just like communities that are tolerant and won’t let people bully the lgbt or the disabled. It feels less tiring.
Believe it or not, some people would call you a tankie for that.
I never got called a tankie, so idk about that.
Then again, I rarely participate in political discussions that I don’t know about. I try to read as much as possible to get an idea, but I never go in dept, like read sources.
I’m going to go to uni soon. I’ll try to spend more time into learning history properly.
Then again, I rarely participate in political discussions that I don’t know about.
If only more people thought or behaved this way. You’re on the right track then. For me my first foray into serious geo-politics was when I wrote a paper on Iran-Contra for a sociology course which also led me to diving into the history of Iran’s conflicts with the west, and from there I started trying to unravel the confusing mess that western sources try to make Palestine seem like, only to finally come to the (correct) conclusion that the only answer to any of these problems is for the US and all it’s colonial projects be dismantled as soon as possible.
Then when gamergate happened and a whole new generations of kids started getting radicalized by mask off fascists I came to another (also correct) conclusion: The only people truly ready and willing to fight fascists were anarchists and communists and that’s how I ended up on the old Chapo subreddit and then here.
The folks around here are extremely knowledgeable and you will learn a hell of a lot through osmosis but eventually you’ll want to read some of this stuff yourself. In addition to what @Dessalines@lemmy.ml gave you I also recommend Kropotkin’s Mutual Aid A Factor Of Evolution which is not Marxist per se, but a great refutation of the “muh human nature means communism doesn’t work” thought terminating cliche.
Finally I would recommend bumping State and Revolution up the que in that list just because it is such a fuckin banger and isn’t long. The opening passage roped me right in:
What is now happening to Marx’s theory has, in the course of history, happened repeatedly to the theories of revolutionary thinkers and leaders of oppressed classes fighting for emancipation. During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it. Today, the bourgeoisie and the opportunists within the labor movement concur in this doctoring of Marxism. They omit, obscure, or distort the revolutionary side of this theory, its revolutionary soul. They push to the foreground and extol what is or seems acceptable to the bourgeoisie. All the social-chauvinists are now “Marxists” (don’t laugh!). And more and more frequently German bourgeois scholars, only yesterday specialists in the annihilation of Marxism, are speaking of the “national-German” Marx, who, they claim, educated the labor unions which are so splendidly organized for the purpose of waging a predatory war!
When I first read that I was like “Oh shit he predicted what happened to MLK Malcolm X and Fred Hampton all the way back in 1917”
I dont know a lot of things that you’re talking about, but I promise I’ll read the texts that you mentioned to try to understand 👍
I’m so happy I avoided gamergate because I was too much into splatoon lmao. The community there was really friendly.
oh yeah almost forgot to tell you to check out Marx Madness. They’ve done full reads of a lot of foundational texts and they offer it up in podcast/book club format where they read and discuss each work. https://podtail.com/en/podcast/marx-madness/
And this here is a collection of introductory works as well as some absolutely essential works on decolonial Marxism assembled by Chunka Luta Network with some free audio books as well. https://mega.nz/folder/cuMwjRyK#eDPayQSdYFwaCh9qr8zzPw
For a good history book I cannot recommend Palo Alto by Malcolm Harris enough. We have the full audiobook on there.
Good!
Let me know if you want some basic Marxist recommendations.
I was thinking of diving head first into das kapital. I’m not sure if 3 courses of philosophy are enough. I was going to ask my philosophy teacher about it, but I’m a bit scared to ask haha.
I would be glad to get some recommendations though.
You can absolutely do that, but it may be extremely difficult.
I would personally recommend starting with The Principles of Communism and then following it up with How Marxism Works. Then, you can dive into Wage Labor and Capital and Value, Price, and Profit.
With the easy overviews of Marxism as a whole, and the Marxist critique of Capitalism out of the way, I would go to Socialism: Utopian and Scientific for philosophy, and Critique of the Gotha Programme for Marx’s vision of what Socialism may look like. Read the Communist Manifesto now, where you have the background knowledge to fully understand the text and appreciate its fire.
Optionally, add Lenin here. Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism explains how Capitalism has grown since Marx, using ideas laid out by Marx but not fully observable until Lenin. I would say this is actually the most important work for understanding Modern Capitalism, but since it builds on Marx, it’s important to read this one after Marx. The State and Revolution is Lenin’s other major work, and it goes over the strategy used during the Russian Revolution. Important for historical context, even if you disagree with Lenin here.
All of this combined is, I believe, shorter than 1 full volume of Capital.
Hope that helps!
Thanks a lot for taking your time to send me all of that. It always shocks me how much all of you know so much about several texts and all.
I’ll try my best to read through all of this.
Imma be honest chief, I’m just a nerd for Socialism and Communism. That’s really it, haha.
Let me know if you have any questions!
I def recommend against starting with das kapital, at least until the advanced / intermediate stages. Its a slog, and not really the best introduction.
Here’s a Marxism study plan, with a good number of audiobooks / audiobook torrents for them.
Ok. Thanks a lot for the audio books aswell!
No probs!
YES
My understanding is that a tankie is defined as someone who seeks to promote global peace, understanding, and equality, with nuanced views that incorporate marginalized and international perspectives, grounded in historical evidence.
That’s how I see it used anyway.
YES
If wanting to receive basic human rights (food, housing, etc.), attend education without being discriminated against for my income and mental condition, control my workplace, earn the full value of my wages, have a government actually controlled by the people, all while being politically educated in past socialist movements and their theory to achieve all these things, then I’m sure as hell am a tankie, and I don’t care what online liberals say.
Stalin rules, by the way. ✊
Why does Stalin “rule”? This is a question from a fellow “leftist.”
Either ignorant, or you’re just a really bad person. Just such a stupid fucking thing to say. Take a step back from the Internet and read a book. Saying “Stalin rules ✊” doesn’t make you cool, it just makes you look like an idiot.
Stalin was a paranoid, murderous dictator responsible for the unnecessary deaths of countless millions of people. Or does it not count because he didn’t murder them himself?
Can’t wait to hear about how the holomodor wasn’t his fault…
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
You are engaging in what is known as the “double genocide” theory, which is a soft form of Holocaust denial. Cut that shit out, you are repeating literal nazi propaganda.
You say you support authoritarianism, and then you say “have a government that is actually controlled by the people”.
Are you stupid?Where did they say they support authoritarianism?
If we ignored everything they said before because they did supposition, they literally said “Stalin rules”. What part of that doesn’t scream authoritarianism?
Seems more intentionally inflamatory than anything else, considering they literally told you what they wanted before that line.
What do you believe Tankies actually desire?
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes or their allies. – Wikipedia
I use the label “tankie” on people who support dictators like Stalin and Xi Jinping and actively push for an authoritarian state. Not sure if them putting “Stalin rules, by the way. ✊” was not serious and/or intentionally inflamatory.They don’t count as a tankie then, they quite plainly told you they wanted a democratically controlled state. Or is democracy authoritarian, in your view?
Nope. As I said, not sure if them putting “Stalin rules, by the way. ✊” was not serious and/or intentionally inflammatory.
If they used it seriously, as in supporting Stalin and his acts, don’t they still count as a tankie?
No. Not a tankie. It would be nice if autocorrect let me type tankie and not talkie. I had to cut and paste it I’m not proud.
