You are engaging in a form of lying when you say we need to have a decision already made to criticize Biden. You should stop lying. We haven’t actually had a convention yet. He’ isn’t the nominee and doesn’t have to be. We don’t have to make that decision until the convention.
If thats an important condition for you to have before you move on from a lost cause, you should come up with an answer to that question on your own and suggest it.
Its a fundamental form of trolling that OP is engaging in, and that apparently, you think I should engage with.
Think about it as a metaphor. I come to you with the information that your house is on fire. OP is basically making a rhetorical argument that if I can’t provide them with a house they’ll find suitable, we shouldnt leave the burning house we’re currently in.
The information about the state of the house (candidate in our case) is independent from there being another house that isn’t on fire.
You should never, ever engage with people like them. They are not having this discussion in good faith. If its important to them they should suggest a candidate. There are plenty to suggest. But that is a fundamentally separate discussion.
One problem with this analogy is that if you’re in a burning house, you literally don’t have time to have a conversation while you’re in it. But in fact we could spend the entire weekend discussing viable candidates and it wouldn’t become too late to then decide to support the idea.
Another problem is that you’re presupposing that the course of action is obvious, as it is in a house fire. In a house fire, it doesn’t matter what can be done about the stuff or where you’re going to live if you lose your home, because if you don’t get out of the house ASAP then you will die, based on thousands upon thousands of previous house fires. In the case of this election, nothing like this has ever happened and staying with Biden does not actually mean guaranteed loss. Perhaps continuing the public call for Biden to step down is the thing that hurts us the most. In any case, the only thing that would mean a literal guaranteed loss would be withdrawing Biden and not replacing him with someone.
So, coming up with suitable people who could take the helm and do better (as well as figuring out a viable way to make this happen democratically) is necessary to this process actually succeeding. We actually do have the luxury of time to spend all day discussing it right now. And if good ideas for candidates can actually win over more people to the idea, then it might in some way be helpful to the success of it.
I would say I’m a person who both feels like things have reached a point where Biden should ideally be replaced, but I’m very worried by the fact that I haven’t yet heard someone else who we could theoretically rally behind, and haven’t heard how this could even be accomplished legally and politically at this late stage. I feel the worst thing we can do is to just repeatedly say it’s a fire and not actually figure out steps to fix it.
Yeah I want a Democrat to win the election and Biden has a less than 1 in 20 shot of doing that.
The only path to stopping Trump is replacing Biden. Continuing to promote Biden as a candidate is you basically asking for project 2025 to become a reality. And as you can see, there are a lot of idiots to push back on who think a guy polling in the low thirties can make it happen.
I have responded to so many of these “who tho” requests, but they all end up in silence without even a reply. At this point I’m thinking it’s some kind of script that sea lions were told to follow.
Oh 100%. They are completely full of shit. There is no answer you could give them that would satisfy them and they were never asking the question in good faith to begin with. Its also not really an important question. Its something we can answer at the convention.
Literally almost all Democrats poll 10-20 points higher than Biden. So the answer is “any of them”. Literally any Democrat could would be enough of an improvement to stop Trump in his tracks.
And there are some solid picks out there. I really think Kamala would be fine; she would invigorate the african-american vote, and guarantee us black-woman voters (which might be a big fucking problem if she isn’t the nominee). Newsom is like, greased-up-deaf-guy slick, but he’s got a machine behind him. I would want someone progressive like Witmer, but I just don’t care at this point. Any one. I think the most strategic choice would be Andy Beshear (2x Democratic southern governor like Bill Clinton; steal Kentucky from the Republicans) would be a very smart strategic choice.
Kamala would sway any centrists towards Trump hands down. There is no brand recognition here besides maybe AOC and she’d fit a VP pick better. I fear a new candidate will only fracture us and ensure a Trump victory. There’s so much at stake for such uncertainty. I can say I will vote for whoever is opposing Trump and Project 2025. I just hope more than half the country is seeing all this shit and thinking “Nah, I dont want a king.”
You dont need name/ brand recognition at this level. Its the presidency and there will only be two options. Its the wrong rule-stick for this level of race. If this were a house race or even a senate seat, sure. But not for whomever will carry the Democratic nomination.
I fear a new candidate will only fracture us
This is a weird talking point that has suddenly become very consistent.
Bro. We’re already fully fractured and its Biden thats done the fracturing. Don’t fear the unknown: fear the known failure the commentators here have been telling you that you are pot-committed to. Thats a far far far bigger concern than not going to the convention with a candidate in hand.
Yeah I can’t really agree with just about anything you said. We weren’t fractured until people decided the debate meant the world and his actual work in office right now doesn’t mean shit.
Definitely not, maybe for terminally online people. But for most of the actual democratic american populace Gaza didn’t mean that much. Thats the sad truth, people mostly care about what’s happening at home, centrists especially.
It is a worthwhile fear. As is doing nothing. Both are very valid fears.
About the king though, that ship has sailed. It would take an act of Congress to fix that, hence there is basically no chance before the election and possibly not ever afterwards. Best we can do is a god-king emperor that chooses not to exercise their powers, or else does so really sneakily so that we can’t tell the difference - since ofc we are unable to even ask. We will literally never know if it is not happening - though ofc when it becomes really obvious that it is being used, then we’ll know. As such, Democracy is dead, long live our next king, whoever they may be.
No thats just wrong.
You are engaging in a form of lying when you say we need to have a decision already made to criticize Biden. You should stop lying. We haven’t actually had a convention yet. He’ isn’t the nominee and doesn’t have to be. We don’t have to make that decision until the convention.
Sure but… WHO?!
Whitmer.
If thats an important condition for you to have before you move on from a lost cause, you should come up with an answer to that question on your own and suggest it.
You’re the one saying Biden should be replaced. Why on earth would it be mortalic’s responsibility to suggest the alternative?
Do you know what sea lioning is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
Its a fundamental form of trolling that OP is engaging in, and that apparently, you think I should engage with.
Think about it as a metaphor. I come to you with the information that your house is on fire. OP is basically making a rhetorical argument that if I can’t provide them with a house they’ll find suitable, we shouldnt leave the burning house we’re currently in.
The information about the state of the house (candidate in our case) is independent from there being another house that isn’t on fire.
You should never, ever engage with people like them. They are not having this discussion in good faith. If its important to them they should suggest a candidate. There are plenty to suggest. But that is a fundamentally separate discussion.
One problem with this analogy is that if you’re in a burning house, you literally don’t have time to have a conversation while you’re in it. But in fact we could spend the entire weekend discussing viable candidates and it wouldn’t become too late to then decide to support the idea.
Another problem is that you’re presupposing that the course of action is obvious, as it is in a house fire. In a house fire, it doesn’t matter what can be done about the stuff or where you’re going to live if you lose your home, because if you don’t get out of the house ASAP then you will die, based on thousands upon thousands of previous house fires. In the case of this election, nothing like this has ever happened and staying with Biden does not actually mean guaranteed loss. Perhaps continuing the public call for Biden to step down is the thing that hurts us the most. In any case, the only thing that would mean a literal guaranteed loss would be withdrawing Biden and not replacing him with someone.
So, coming up with suitable people who could take the helm and do better (as well as figuring out a viable way to make this happen democratically) is necessary to this process actually succeeding. We actually do have the luxury of time to spend all day discussing it right now. And if good ideas for candidates can actually win over more people to the idea, then it might in some way be helpful to the success of it.
I would say I’m a person who both feels like things have reached a point where Biden should ideally be replaced, but I’m very worried by the fact that I haven’t yet heard someone else who we could theoretically rally behind, and haven’t heard how this could even be accomplished legally and politically at this late stage. I feel the worst thing we can do is to just repeatedly say it’s a fire and not actually figure out steps to fix it.
I just took a look at your post history. It’s literally only anti-Biden. I hope you’re getting paid…
Yeah I want a Democrat to win the election and Biden has a less than 1 in 20 shot of doing that.
The only path to stopping Trump is replacing Biden. Continuing to promote Biden as a candidate is you basically asking for project 2025 to become a reality. And as you can see, there are a lot of idiots to push back on who think a guy polling in the low thirties can make it happen.
I have responded to so many of these “who tho” requests, but they all end up in silence without even a reply. At this point I’m thinking it’s some kind of script that sea lions were told to follow.
Oh 100%. They are completely full of shit. There is no answer you could give them that would satisfy them and they were never asking the question in good faith to begin with. Its also not really an important question. Its something we can answer at the convention.
Literally almost all Democrats poll 10-20 points higher than Biden. So the answer is “any of them”. Literally any Democrat could would be enough of an improvement to stop Trump in his tracks.
And there are some solid picks out there. I really think Kamala would be fine; she would invigorate the african-american vote, and guarantee us black-woman voters (which might be a big fucking problem if she isn’t the nominee). Newsom is like, greased-up-deaf-guy slick, but he’s got a machine behind him. I would want someone progressive like Witmer, but I just don’t care at this point. Any one. I think the most strategic choice would be Andy Beshear (2x Democratic southern governor like Bill Clinton; steal Kentucky from the Republicans) would be a very smart strategic choice.
Kamala would sway any centrists towards Trump hands down. There is no brand recognition here besides maybe AOC and she’d fit a VP pick better. I fear a new candidate will only fracture us and ensure a Trump victory. There’s so much at stake for such uncertainty. I can say I will vote for whoever is opposing Trump and Project 2025. I just hope more than half the country is seeing all this shit and thinking “Nah, I dont want a king.”
You dont need name/ brand recognition at this level. Its the presidency and there will only be two options. Its the wrong rule-stick for this level of race. If this were a house race or even a senate seat, sure. But not for whomever will carry the Democratic nomination.
This is a weird talking point that has suddenly become very consistent.
Bro. We’re already fully fractured and its Biden thats done the fracturing. Don’t fear the unknown: fear the known failure the commentators here have been telling you that you are pot-committed to. Thats a far far far bigger concern than not going to the convention with a candidate in hand.
Yeah I can’t really agree with just about anything you said. We weren’t fractured until people decided the debate meant the world and his actual work in office right now doesn’t mean shit.
You are living in a delusional fantasy. Biden’s polling was CATASTROPHIC before the debate. Why?
Because Biden split the party in how he has handled Gaza.
Its unbelievable the amount of delusion people around here try and persist with.
Definitely not, maybe for terminally online people. But for most of the actual democratic american populace Gaza didn’t mean that much. Thats the sad truth, people mostly care about what’s happening at home, centrists especially.
It is a worthwhile fear. As is doing nothing. Both are very valid fears.
About the king though, that ship has sailed. It would take an act of Congress to fix that, hence there is basically no chance before the election and possibly not ever afterwards. Best we can do is a god-king emperor that chooses not to exercise their powers, or else does so really sneakily so that we can’t tell the difference - since ofc we are unable to even ask. We will literally never know if it is not happening - though ofc when it becomes really obvious that it is being used, then we’ll know. As such, Democracy is dead, long live our next king, whoever they may be.