You’ve assumed that winning is the only outcome of value.

My opinion is that persons who continue to bring up Bernie Sanders not winning the primary as a reason to not shift the parties through their primaries is that those persons are making that assumption and that I am trying to refute it by pointing out the existence of the progressive Squad since his losing bids in 2016 and 2020. So it appears we’re both misunderstanding each other on that point.

Five percent of the GE in this cycle puts the platform on every ballot in the next. That choice would be outside the influence of party primary and from a party more loyal to the platform than even Sanders.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a ballot that doesn’t have 3rd party candidates on it. I see Green and Libertarian candidates all the way up and down the ballot here in Texas. Going back to my first election in 96 there have always been both Green and Libertarian candidates to vote for in the general.I’m

That exerts a fuck ton of pressure on Democratic Party platform for at least four years.

I disagree with this. My observation thus far is that in the last 40 years of elections I’ve voted in the presence of 3rd party platforms on the ballot has not any measurable effect on the Democratic platform or candidates. And the only thing that did, in my opinion, was Bernie Sanders running in the Democratic primary for the presidential nomination. I started voting in the primaries in 2008.

But, this reasoning only works well in deep red states. Everywhere else voters need to worry much more about short term harm reduction. I even did the math for what proportion of deep red state Democratic voters would need to reason this out to get 5% of the GE. It’s definitely possible.

I’m in Texas, in a district gerrymandered Republican. Greens and Libertarians are already on the ballot. Democratic candidates aren’t getting more progressive here to appeal to Green party voters. Not that I can see.

I advocate and practice the means that have been historically, statistically, psychologically proven, in order of decreasing importance: rebellion, riot, strike, boycott, protest, and voting.

As long as you’re voting.

Why? What did the DNC do to favor his opponents? What I’ve seen is that the DNC was in debt and the Clinton campaign bailed them out in exchange for a bit of nepotism to put some of her people in charge.

Anyone I’ve asked to read the ruling that then did so no longer votes in the major party primaries. You seem reasonable. Please, read it for yourself.

What I looked up showed a law suit filed in Florida by Bernie supporters asserting they had been defrauded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilding_v._DNC_Services_Corp.
https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/

The circuit court ruled against them because “none of the plaintiffs had claimed to have donated to the DNC on the basis of promises contained in the DNC charter.” The 11th circuit appellate court unanimously upheld the circuit court ruling, and SCOTUS declined to hear the case.

How did the DNC prevent voters from voting for Bernie in the primary? He was included in the debates for all the voters to hear him present his platform. He was on the primary ballot in every state for the voters to chose him. I’ve not been made aware of any actual vote tampering to contest the winners of the popular vote in each state or super delegate ratfuckery to overrider the popular votes. And to my knowledge Hillary won more delegates through the popular primary votes around the country.

Succinctly, I want more to think along a longer scale of time than the next five years.

I’m under no delusion that shifting the parties through their primaries is a 5 year plan. I’m of the opinion that people who keep citing Bernie losing the 2016 and 2020 primaries as reasons to vote 3rd party or not vote are the ones under such a delusion. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today.

More importantly, individuals may represent the same ideology but be in very different situations making very different choices. For example, I think a wise leftist in a red state probably best represents leftist ideology by voting Green POTUS this cycle.

I’m in Texas in a gerrymandered red district, so I voted in the Republican primary for the best chance at defeating Abbot’s school voucher program, and I’m voting Democratic in the general for the same. It’s just a matter of enough voters showing up to flip the script though. Bill Clinton came within a quarter million of winning the state in 96. Biden received more votes in Texas in 2020 than he did in New York, and Trump only won by ~650k votes that year, which is a significantly lower margin than the number of voters in the core blue areas of the state who did not vote. Gen Z turned out in 2022 to temper the red wave, and we have a woman running in the first post-Roe presidential election. I think we can do it if we get all the left-leaning voters to come out and vote Democratic.