Imagine apartments built into what used to be department stores, (Oh, you’re JC Penny 203? I’m at Sears 106). Get those old arcades up and running. Set up meal stations at the food court. Once people actually live there, stores will start to move back in.
If I’m unable to finish my life in my own home, that doesn’t sound like a terrible option.
As a GenX, I would prefer seeing them made into some sort of public space? We are losing a lot of that, at least where I live. Indoor space in particular.
Can you provide an example since in not fully understanding what you’re after?
3rd places.
A library.
Yeah but one for talking
Barnes and Noble/Starbucks tried that. It’s pretty cool but didn’t scale
A talkbrary
I commented below with a similar idea. Like a public indoor park, for when Outside™ is no longer an option for recreation due to climate issues. They are big enough to accommodate large playgrounds, both child and adult style, running tracks, swimming pools, sports fields/courts. Keep the food court, sure, throw in a library, etc.
If we ever get a house and senate progressive enough to shave like 0.000000001% of the military budget we could put one in every abandoned mall and have funds left over.
Yeah that sounds awesome!
I was just trying to say that once you privatize something like a mall to make it housing or whatever it is, you will never get it back. The city or some public trust should hold onto the property. What you actually do with it depends on what would be best for the community I guess?
Being a Canadian, just having some indoor places where you can gather in to get out of the cold in the dead of winter is something I don’t think we should give up.
God, imagine living in a retirement community that has a Hot Topic.
No God please no. I hated malls as a child, this would be some sort of fucked up psychological torture.
That’s ok, you can still go to Shady Pines.
Not even renovated, just set me up in a hot topic.
Dibs on Spencers!
Have you been in a Spencer’s recently? Remember the skeezy area in the back? That’s now the whole thing.
Last time I was in one it was all Blacklights and shit that was cool when you were stoned lol.
Spensors was always an excuse to put a sex toy store in a shopping mall.
Spensors was always an excuse to put a sex toy store in a shopping mall.
Can’t. The goth kids burned it down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OvUDHpPgb4
In other countries, malls are still alive and well. In Philippines, that is where people literally chill in a hot tropical climate because of 24/7 air conditioning!
Malls are also seen as a sign of progress and modernity for many developing countries, so there is some cultural expectations to building and maintaining malls.
In US, we way overbuilt malls. There’s just too many. While I’m not a fan (shopping is not a destination, and I want to get it done as quickly as possible), I’m not entirely convinced they’re dying here either. Some people do like shopping and some people like the community experience. 3/4 of malls need to die, but we’ll see if it settles on a more sustainable number, or if online shopping ate their face
In the US we’re having a bit of a crisis of “third places”. Where do people hang out as a community? Where do you go? So many newly built suburbs don’t have any approximation of town center or community places. Malls served that need for a few decades, but many are going away. Now we’re trying to replace malls with “shopping districts”, basically rebuilding town centers that too many suburbs never had…. Plus they seem to be just a mall with less roof
There’s a mall near where I live that’s still pretty rad. I go there sometimes
This isn’t a too shabby of an idea. It probably won’t be used but a mix of stores and homes in one building sounds great.
ITT: people want cyberpunk megabuildings
The idea of apartments centered around a grocery plaza has been a thing for a while. It’s almost an answer, except it still requires transportation to everything else. Plus the stores tend to be higher prices to support the cost of property and because they can.
apartments centered around a grocery plaza has been a thing for a while
Do you mean like… a town?
A town is a bit more than that, but it is how towns typically began, from a central trading place and nearby settlements. Only this is a planned concrete parking lot and established chain along with fully built domiciles, already in a city/town’s jurisdiction.
Only this is a planned concrete parking lot
That’s where it all falls down. Mandatory parking space kills cities. The point of a centralized commercial area with residential around is that people will walk to it.
Add a metro station, a large parking garage, should work
That would be a cool place to live to me.
I absolutely hate malls in Russia. I’d prefer them all demolished and replaced with grass, but this seems a valid option too.
counterargument; malls, arcades, and bookstores should come back in style because they were amazing and we don’t know what we missed until it’s gone.
They will come back as the US shifts away from car centered culture, malls thrive in Europe
How will shifting away from cars result in more people going to the mall? How are you supposed to get there?
Well optimally you have 2 legs, you could use those, also public transport.
Video with more info https://youtu.be/586SO9-wWoA?si=SL-vnIV14DPwFH9I
It will just be delivered.
Well ofc, Europe doesn’t have delivery invented yet, that’s the difference between the us and europe
Some day.
I’m not clicking that link, you left your SI in it. Google is gonna track me if I click on that.
They track you in a million other ways, what do you care anyway.
Well, that kind of tracking data can be used to influence elections and other such deeds, as Cambridge Analytica showed us. I don’t want megacorps to have that much power over people.
Well optimally you have 2 legs,
It’s called number eleven
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And yes, it can be done in the US as well, and not just in cities. I think our similar touchpoint in the US is “Main Street”. Guess what: they still exist in a few places.
Time to brag about my town. We have a town center with a Common, transit hub, library, post office, government buildings. Most importantly we have a nice walkable street with shops and restaurants. As was tradition, the lots are in back, but there are also higher density housing so many people are just there and all the buses, taxis, Ubers, bicycles, scooters, and even canoe rentals center on that area so there’s transit.
During COViD when we couldn’t go to places with a lot of people, this became much bigger. My family wasn’t the only one that developed a new tradition of walking at the Common and along the street, eating outside, or grabbing takeout from one of the many Ethnic restaurants to eat at a bench on the Common
By subway. By bus. By bike. Walking. The world by and large doesn’t revolve around cars. How do you think Europeans get there?
Public transport…and their countries are small as fuck. The amount of people who think the USA is the same size as European countries is hilarious. Most states are the size of a few eu countries.
The rest of the entire world is a teeny bit larger than the US, but they still manage to do public transport just fine, for the most part.
Besides Europe and Japan…no they really don’t.
The amount of people who think the USA is the same size as European countries is hilarious.
Well, Russia is a European country. Also Russia is largest country in the world.
Russia also has shit public transportation because of its size.
Nah, corruption.
Yeah, so? Are you going to a mall in the next state or what? Public transport connects suburbs and cities. You’re not supposed to take the subway from Chicago to your favorite mall in Seattle, just like no European takes a bus from Amsterdam to go shopping in Brussels.
Nope but the nearest mall to me is 2 hours drive. No one is building rails out into the smaller counties. The USA is massive. I’ve lived in Europe, its a lot smaller, and people still have cars. Not saying this couldn’t work for cities but people forget how spread out we are here in the usa.
Nope but the nearest mall to me is 2 hours drive.
Have you considered that this is because most of space in USA is allocated only for cars? Or that if this space wasn’t allocated to cars, then you wouldn’t need to traverse such disyance in first place?
but people forget how spread out we are here in the usa.
The solution: trains
Maybe I’m biased living in a “European” part of the US, but it can translate very well to our country. the problem is not that the place is large, but so many places are suburban or trying to keep that rural feel, yet you want massive warehouse stores for everyday shopping. Everything wants to be its own destination, so there is no real concentration of snything
But every town can have a center where common areas are common. Every town can have a center with whatever shops and restaurants. Every town of every size can have some things in a higher density area that’s walkable. In our mythology, we call it “Main Street, USA” and look back at it as a long gone ideal, but it’s still a useful concept, still around in some places, and can be re-created. In my towns case it did well focussing on restaurants, because you can’t ft a Costco or modern grocery there. But there’s also a library, small movie theater, town Common. All the buses run there, and you can find taxis, bicycles or scooters, a nice river walk,etc. it also has a concentration of apartments and condos, so there are always people around
Yes, that’s what Europeans don’t understand about America. When we go to, say, Wal Mart, there’s only one. We have to go to Bentonville, AR. Not so bad for us here in the Midwest, but the residents of Alaska have it particularly tough. And since you go to Wal Mart to pick up milk, we can’t go by public transport. It has to be by car, or better yet, drive the Canyonero. (No train schedule can predict when the milk runs out!)
The country is so big, and we have so much empty land, there’s just simply no room to build more stores near where people live. What kind of madness would that be?!
(No train schedule can predict when the milk runs out!)
How about YOU predicting when milk runs out? I’m not asking you to do five-year plan, but it’s easy to know when milk will run our.
The country is so big, and we have so much empty land
Russia is bigger and has more empty land. Despite Putin’s idiocy with invading other country.
You have arcades in Europe?
Yes
If they come back, I hope they will be more accessible on foot, with a bike, or with efficient public transit. Because if they are still surrounded by deserts of parking lots, only filled with EVs instead of ICEs, they can continue to die.
It’s already a problem if they are not in the city center, as it sucks out business from the center and creates more traffic.
In my country (and I think most of Europe) malls (especially those in more central areas) have underground parking, or limited above-ground parking. There is a really nice one which is connected to a big park in the back. So maybe you can replace the parking lots with apartment buildings, recreational spaces and transit infrastructure and maybe include some underground parking.
If parts of it become residential like OP suggested, then it’ll be accessible by foot.
Malls are sign of bad ciry planning
There’s a mall in my city that’s currently under construction, but I have a feeling it’ll be forgotten the week after it opens.
And this is the FIRST mall in my city.
I’m surprised they’re building more after watching so many die and rot.
In some places they still make sense. In a place where one can be built relatively close to a number of well off suburbs, while being closer than more urban area commercial districts, malls are still doing alright. The hey day of malls being in every suburb is dead though.
My country doesn’t have many malls to begin with. The only one I’ve been to is in Casablanca.
I do not live in Casablanca.
mall walks!
With those moving walkways you see in airports.
Can’t have residential buildings in an area zoned for commercial use.
Never heard of mixed use?
Sim City says no
Should have installed Workers and Resources instead.
There was a failing mall in the area and they renovated and added a bunch of housing and it’s doing amazingly well.
That is absolutely untrue. Dual zoning is very common, especially between commercial and high density residential. Some are triple zoned with light industrial as well.
do rezonings not happen?
We got time to make it work.
Just right click on the area and rezone it!
meanwhile, OSM was filled with bad edits
They tore down the big, stagnating mall a few minutes from my place years ago. It’s still a big, empty lot.
This would have been a much better and surely most cost-effective solution. Instead, we’re probably eventually gonna get another soulless office park in spite of dwindling demand.
I didn’t know this, on account of like not knowing a lot of land owners. But I did know one (for sure), and they had some property that unfortunately burnt down. It was more economically sound for them to keep the place an empty lot with a guard and a gate than to build something back up. I think that’s naners. But also the whole situation was some kind of nanas.
I heard the same thing for landlords in the past. That having the property in any state is better than having to reinvest that cash into upkeep. So you don’t particularly care about the renter’s life quality, as much as you care that they keep floating money up to you and not complaining as things fall apart around them. And keeping people in crisis mode is a great way to counter any sort of counter-measures they can bring down on you. But also keeping public support organizations under-budget and overwhelmed is a solid way of sending the message “you’re on your own.”
I know it’s kinda like a learned helplessness thing - but when everything around you is shit, and you’re trying your best and just keep sinking - it’s tough to fight assholes. But this is all er…my thoughts on the matter. I don’t know anything definitively. Just figured they’re banking that property until it’s time to sell. And anything that goes into it - is money that cuts overall profits.
I’ve thought about this a lot, on account of infinite people having an insane amount of trouble just keeping consistent shelter over their heads. My gal had suggested this as a means for the homeless. I know that right now malls are being lent out to many individual small organizations (namely churches as far as I know it). But I am not sure this is sustainable as a whole. Due to maintenance costs, hazardous situations like mold and lack of privacy.
I also think about how people keep saying cost of living is why people aren’t having kids. But I have lived in multiple places that were once a much larger living space that had been jankily peacemealed into several much smaller apartments. I am a human that enjoys having space of my own, even if it’s micro in nature. I can’t imagine I am alone in that. And I don’t believe people will want to further invest in divvying up spaces in malls. At least, unless they’re getting kickbacks. And they’ll probably do it in the worst of ways. Leading to spaces that will be barely sound and fast to degrade but slow to fix. I mean shelter is super duper important. But I swear to god your surroundings can affect your mental state. And when you’re wedged together in a decaying mold filled building with a bunch of aging individuals facing a slew of different health-issues it’ll probably deteriorate your wellness faster than if we tore the places down and utilized some sort of cheap eco-friendly building material/robo-builder to assist making healthier homes.
Also mind you, I don’t think we’re gunna have beautiful low-income or middle-income homes if the greige, vinyl, orange-peel, chrome take-over points towards anything.
A working exemplar of the original vision is still functioning beautifully: “The Grove Arcade” in Asheville, NC.
Stahp, I’m not even 40 yet.
And you won’t be able to retire in 20 years, or 30, maybe 40, if you’re lucky
