Ladybird
ladybird.org
Ladybird is a truly independent web browser, backed by a non-profit.
  • BaumGeist@lemmy.mlOP
    365·
    3 months ago

    Why is Swift bad?

    Also, I noticed the project has taken donations from mostly non-foss companies. Let’s hope they stand by their principles

    • TerkErJerbs@lemm.ee
      951·
      3 months ago

      Shopify (i.e. Shittify) being their top donor already has me looking sideways at this project. They’ll invest in anything they think they can get an edge with and if something starts to happen they’ll fuck it up and wallstreet-ify it as fast as possible if they can.

      Their (Shopify’s) guru founder Tobi made a huge NFT play that went absolutely nowhere while I still worked there. They spent a lot of time and money on it, right before they laid several thousand people off.

      • Joël de Bruijn@lemmy.ml
        4·
        3 months ago

        Also I’m very much cautious about them on anything browsing related. Discovered (after others also) they let their search-pages-in-a-shop get indexed.

        Meaning I could go to Caterpillar, search for “Wabtec is better” and then this search url (with 0 products) would turn up in Google searches and that URL persisted. Text and all.

        Basically one could spray-paint and tag sites with this graffiti. Shop admins didn’t even have means to remove it.

        Problem ignored and stayed this way for months.

      • Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
        7·
        3 months ago

        I agree that it’s not ideal, but hey, it’s open source, and the Louis Rossmann cult is the only other top-tier donor, so I’m sure they’ll be fine.

      • x00z@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        3 months ago

        Do you have a source for that? I’m trying to look for donors but don’t really find anything.

          • x00z@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            3 months ago

            How could I have missed that, lol. Thanks.

            Anyways, I don’t think it’s too weird. It might even be to simply have their name up there. We’ll have to see.

            • TerkErJerbs@lemm.ee
              2·
              3 months ago

              I read somewhere awhile back their platinum donors gave a certain tier (10k or 100k or whatever it was). To be clear I’m more than open to being surprised here, I want Ladybird to succeed. I just resent Shopify being involved in any way, I’m a little bit petty after slogging it out at that company awhile because I know what they’re all about.

      • SpeakinTelnet@sh.itjust.works
        11·
        3 months ago

        While I agree shopify has a kind of “mierda touch”, I still see it as if it goes sideways with them someone will just fork the code.

        • TerkErJerbs@lemm.ee
          16·
          3 months ago

          I mean I hope Ladybird devs do a great build and go their own way without being corrupted by their donors and all that, don’t get me wrong. But whenever I see that dumb shopping bag logo I get the no feelings.

          You can also read up on how the vast majority of Mozilla’s funding has been coming from Google for a very long time, and draw your own conclusions from that fact.

    • asudox@lemmy.world
      2813·
      3 months ago

      Welp, I haven’t seen anyone learn Swift other than for Apple stuff these days. So I wonder how many can actually contribute to the code. It’s also made by Apple, so yeah. It would have been more performant and secure (both of which are pretty important in a browser) if it was written in a more low level language. For example Rust.

      • GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
        94·
        3 months ago

        While Rust would probably have been a good choice for implementing a new browser, I don’t think Swift deserves the criticism it’s getting in this thread:

        • Swift was created by the same person who created Rust, and has many of the same nice traits
        • Swift is a modern language that is easy for plenty of developers to pick up; I’d place it in the same family as Rust and Kotlin
        • Swift grants access to a large pool of native iOS/Mac developers
      • LeFantome@programming.dev
        121·
        3 months ago

        It is currently written in C++. They are looking to switch to Swift.

        They looked into Rust but decided that GUI work was a pain and that they wanted something more object-oriented.

      • mostlikelyaperson@lemmy.world
        118·
        3 months ago

        “More performant” citation needed. Very well written Rust might be extremely fast, yes, but Rust is also a hard language to get right. Swift is far from a slow language and I would not be surprised if the average rust programmer barely if at all manages to beat out the average swift programmer in terms of speed. As for the amount of programmers interested, hard to tell, but given the sheer amount of Swift devs I’d not be surprised if there were quite a few interested ones and I am unconvinced Rust programmers are statistically more likely to be interested in Browser development.

          • mostlikelyaperson@lemmy.world
            35·
            3 months ago

            Benchmarks mean nothing. These aren’t the results of code written by an average programmer. Edit: and as a general note I would also like to point out the relative inconsistency of the results in terms of factor, only further reinforcing my point. I like Rust and all but we do need to admit it doesn’t magically solve all our problems.

            • Evening Newbs@lemmy.worldEnglish
              42·
              3 months ago

              Benchmarks mean nothing.

              You’re free to suggest another method of comparing the two languages’ performance. This is the best we’re have, and Rust wins in every single benchmark shown there.

              These aren’t the results of code written by an average programmer.

              Citation needed.

              I like Rust and all but we do need to admit it doesn’t magically solve all our problems.

              I never said it did. I simply pointed out that it’s demonstrably faster than Swift.

      • Norah - She/They@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        142·
        3 months ago

        It’s also made by Apple, so yeah.

        It’s also open-source? Like, Microsoft created C# and Typescript. Google created Go. Those get used without people bringing up their origins. Hell, Rust Javascript* was created by a homophobe. What, do you think the license lets Apple close-source everyone’s code if they choose or something?

        Sorry, I’m just really tired of these low-effort comments. The only thing that should matter is the language and if it hits the goals the project needs.