I don’t mean that we’ll see smart versions of new things, but more of the basic things, like Light fixtures, smoke alarms, doorbells etc. Consumers will buy less and less of the “dumb” things until EVERYTHING has WiFi built into it.
No WiFi please. There are much better technologies for home automation.
Matter/Thread has the potential to make this happen. Finally a common network across both wired and local low powered mesh-based networks that’s easy to use and can do pretty much whatever anyone would need.
Lots of hype, but very slow rollout means we’re just not seeing that potential develop. You really need to use older tech as well, which keeps it from being available to non-techies
I’ve worked in the home automation industry for over twenty five years. I’ve been programming “smart lighting” for over ten.
The “smart home” you see today is largely thanks to how cheaply things are made in china and repackaged by mega-corporations. And the consumers’ desire to do everything from their phone (with 2 day shipping). Automated lighting control has existed for over forty years. It’s been expensive because the parts are built to last for forty plus years and most of the older system were manufactured in the US. Those manufacturers are still mostly making things in the US but a lot of little bits are imported.
An average 2,500 sq ft home could do a whole automated lighting system for about five grand. That’s a lot for someone to buy (and install) from Amazon but it’s nothing if it’s bundled into your mortgage.
Nothing beats a wire. For a small apartment with a few lighting circuits, sure, spend $500 on some wireless doodads. Now you’re stuck relying on software updates and firmware updates by your router, your wireless bridge, your smart buttons, your lighting fixtures, your mobile OS, the lighting app, and maybe another app to combine everything, not to mention your “smart speaker” if you want to yelp your commands into the air. On the other hand, if you get everything from one manufacturer, it’s built on an isolated network that grants access to your mobile device and the system is self contained and essentially bulletproof until the power goes out.
Lighting is a life safety segment. You won’t pass inspection unless you can turn the lights on and off from a physical switch or button that doesn’t rely on your home wifi.
It’s up to electricians and builders and AV experts (and CEDIA) to convince future home owners that it’s worth getting this stuff installed before the home is built rather than letting them decide to buy something prone to failure on their own.
I love smart lighting. I wish everyone would invest any amount of money into it. But, if I’m reading you right, a wifi lighting world is not something I would hope to see become more commonplace than the current path of wired automated lighting. I’m in agreement with you though. It’s really sad when I walk into brand new homes that have no lighting control (or distributed audio) at all.
Lutron is the most common for lighting and shades. They work closely with electricians, architects, and designers. Lutron has some consumer facing products (Caseta) that may be applicable to most people wanting to take a step into real control systems. That’s not to say they have all the capabilities you’re looking for - they stay in their lane.
Crestron is far more robust as they offer everything from lights, shades, speakers, control systems, AV distribution, etc. They’re huge in commercial too. You would need to contact an AV pro to get Crestron installed and programmed.
There’s handful of other brands you may come across (Control4, Savant) as you research your local AV installers. I don’t have as much experience with them. Both had questionable beginnings but I would assume they’re much better now.
Just make sure whoever you deal with is authorized or certified dealers and programmers. It’ll cost a bit more than people working out of their trunks - but you get what you pay for. As with all things ‘internet’, do your own research. I can suggest starting here https://cedia.org/homeowners/
Am electrician, 100% with you. Relying on apps and wifi for your home is NOT worth the money you save. It’s straightforward enough for us to do the job properly, and you will be MUCH happier with the results. It will also improve resale value, which your rinky-dink wifi devices won’t. Because they’ll be obsolete.
This isn’t me saying it to drum up work. We’ve got plenty of work. I ain’t selling nothing here. Invest in an electrician for a few days and it will pay off.
This is a complicated answer just because there’s so many options and variables. We always tell people to run more wire than they think they’ll need.
Proper speaker wire is fire rated for in-wall use - don’t run lamp cord in your walls. 18 gauge, two pair or four pair is typical. While the walls are open; run at least one Cat6 to TVs, potential wifi access point locations, security camera locations, door bell, light switches, even speaker locations and someplace you think you might want a source component (turntable, etc). If you want controlled shades, they may take special wiring which you’d definitely want to run now. Worse case, 18/4 and Cat6. Everything should start from a central location not far from your electric panel.
You’ll need to balance how you want to control the system with how the system you want can be controlled. If you want in wall keypads or touch screens, that control system needs to be compatible or made compatible with your source gear. If you want to control everything with an iPhone or iPad, you’ll need to look into a control system that’s compatible with that.
Consider that a ubiquitous 110v commercial amplifier can likely power all the speakers in your home but it lacks volume control. Most whole home amplifiers lack a volume control you can operate from a mobile device. There are in-wall volume controls that can sit between the amplifier and the speakers. To use those, you could run 18/4 (and maybe Cat6) from the amp to the volume control then 18/2 from the volume control to the speaker. You could also consider a matrix switcher with preamp. This would distribute one or more sources to the amplifier channel (speaker zone) you choose and possibly give you remote volume control.
Those are just some thoughts. You might want to check out these sites for equipment ideas: monoprice, sweetwater, snapav, russound.
Nothing beats a wire. For a small apartment with a few lighting circuits, sure, spend $500 on some wireless doodads. Now you’re stuck relying on software updates and firmware updates by your router, your wireless bridge, your smart buttons, your lighting fixtures, your mobile OS, the lighting app, and maybe another app to combine everything, not to mention your “smart speaker” if you want to yelp your commands into the air. On the other hand, if you get everything from one manufacturer, it’s built on an isolated network that grants access to your mobile device and the system is self contained and essentially bulletproof until the power goes out.
Both wireless and proprietary/single-supplier are deal-breakers for me. As such, stuff like what you install (presumably Crestron or similar) is just as worthless to me as the shit from Amazon. Basically, between surveillance capitalism and vendor lock-in, nobody in the industry wants to meet my needs. So I’m either going to have to resign myself to having a “dumb” house forever, or build the whole damn system from scratch myself with blackjack and hookers Arduinos and Home Assistant!
There’s nothing wrong with building it yourself other than you need to acquire all the skills to do so and source all the components yourself and figure it out on your own when it doesn’t work. If that works for you, that’s great.
Crestron and Lutron stay out of the consumer market, in part, because you need to be a licensed electrician to install components of their systems. I can tell you from experience, even with the right training and certification, it’s very easy to blow something out. And when something doesn’t work, you have them for tech support and you get a great warranty. The stuff is rock solid and works for decades. I rather buy a home with a single supplier system than one that was hobbled together. Because when I then have a problem with something or want to upgrade the system, I know who to call and what the options are.
I hate battery items, and when I can I like wired. But retrofitting a 70 year old home with all that won’t be easy or cheap. I’ve already had to redo all my outlets and run new wires.
Other disadvantages for me are:
I have to know what I want at the beginning
The vendor has to support or sell a specific solution for whatever device I want
I can’t slow roll it as I can afford it
Upgrades aren’t going to be easy or cheap.
But I am an IT director. So I know my way around networking, programming, and system/server admin. I can segment, design, and secure the networking between the devices and run whatever systems I need for automation. I’ve run Ethernet throughout the house and am not afraid of cutting holes.
I’m trying to tie in some professional systems like Dante audio instead of smart speakers. Even though that means I’ll probably need a dedicated audio server.
And I’m tying in a lot of legacy protocols too. Like artnet and DMX for a lot of the show control systems I have. It’s really great being able to use so much dissimilar stuff and be able to control it from a single dashboard.
I can also automate temporary things like holiday lights or my big Halloween displays. I end up wiring most of my cars lights to DMX controlled relays and dimmers. Add fog machines and audio cues that I can sync up together.
That’s pretty much what we do (including retrofitting 200+ year old farm houses). Just replace your home server with a Crestron box. For people who want to tinker on a regular basis, we could (I have) easily build them a custom interface but you certainly fit the bill of someone who should do it themselves. You’ve chosen this as a hobby and a life long commitment.
You know what they say about plumbers… always a leaky pipe in their house. Having been in the industry for decades, the last thing I want to do when I get home from work is futz around with networking and programming. I have wireless Ikea lighting. The battery has been dead on one of my smart buttons for a month and I’m too lazy to take two minutes to swap it.
I tinker mostly during the holidays. Show control is kind of a hobby. As are haunted houses.
Otherwise, everything just works at this point. I just have a few useful automation like turning all lights off with a button press, some lights that turn on at sunset and off at sunrise, and back door lights that turn on when the garage opens and it’s after sunset.
Otherwise everything still works as a switch, well button now, without Internet or my hub. I never need to explain to someone that comes in how to use anything.
I have some shit broken, like my automation that sent one of the robot vacuums out when I leave the house doesn’t work now that I’ve tried making sure it doesn’t go if my girlfriend is still home. But low priority. The shit I care about just works. The rest is when I get to it, eventually.
Oh, there are some distributers with some in-the-middle gear that might be sort of accessible to “consumers”. You might have to lie and say you’re a professional. Off the top of my head, I’ve worked with almo.com and adiglobaldistribution.us and snapav.com. Still, the skills to install and program this stuff is something to acquire.
I think the “smart” home will become more common.
I don’t mean that we’ll see smart versions of new things, but more of the basic things, like Light fixtures, smoke alarms, doorbells etc. Consumers will buy less and less of the “dumb” things until EVERYTHING has WiFi built into it.
No thanks. So-called smart devices = Internet of Shit.
No WiFi please. There are much better technologies for home automation.
Matter/Thread has the potential to make this happen. Finally a common network across both wired and local low powered mesh-based networks that’s easy to use and can do pretty much whatever anyone would need.
Lots of hype, but very slow rollout means we’re just not seeing that potential develop. You really need to use older tech as well, which keeps it from being available to non-techies
The Insteon crisis
I’ve worked in the home automation industry for over twenty five years. I’ve been programming “smart lighting” for over ten.
The “smart home” you see today is largely thanks to how cheaply things are made in china and repackaged by mega-corporations. And the consumers’ desire to do everything from their phone (with 2 day shipping). Automated lighting control has existed for over forty years. It’s been expensive because the parts are built to last for forty plus years and most of the older system were manufactured in the US. Those manufacturers are still mostly making things in the US but a lot of little bits are imported.
An average 2,500 sq ft home could do a whole automated lighting system for about five grand. That’s a lot for someone to buy (and install) from Amazon but it’s nothing if it’s bundled into your mortgage.
Nothing beats a wire. For a small apartment with a few lighting circuits, sure, spend $500 on some wireless doodads. Now you’re stuck relying on software updates and firmware updates by your router, your wireless bridge, your smart buttons, your lighting fixtures, your mobile OS, the lighting app, and maybe another app to combine everything, not to mention your “smart speaker” if you want to yelp your commands into the air. On the other hand, if you get everything from one manufacturer, it’s built on an isolated network that grants access to your mobile device and the system is self contained and essentially bulletproof until the power goes out.
Lighting is a life safety segment. You won’t pass inspection unless you can turn the lights on and off from a physical switch or button that doesn’t rely on your home wifi.
It’s up to electricians and builders and AV experts (and CEDIA) to convince future home owners that it’s worth getting this stuff installed before the home is built rather than letting them decide to buy something prone to failure on their own.
I love smart lighting. I wish everyone would invest any amount of money into it. But, if I’m reading you right, a wifi lighting world is not something I would hope to see become more commonplace than the current path of wired automated lighting. I’m in agreement with you though. It’s really sad when I walk into brand new homes that have no lighting control (or distributed audio) at all.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! Are there any brands, guides, platforms, etc that you would recommend?
I’m getting my feet wet with Home Assistant and would love to “Do it right”!
Lutron is the most common for lighting and shades. They work closely with electricians, architects, and designers. Lutron has some consumer facing products (Caseta) that may be applicable to most people wanting to take a step into real control systems. That’s not to say they have all the capabilities you’re looking for - they stay in their lane.
Crestron is far more robust as they offer everything from lights, shades, speakers, control systems, AV distribution, etc. They’re huge in commercial too. You would need to contact an AV pro to get Crestron installed and programmed.
There’s handful of other brands you may come across (Control4, Savant) as you research your local AV installers. I don’t have as much experience with them. Both had questionable beginnings but I would assume they’re much better now.
Just make sure whoever you deal with is authorized or certified dealers and programmers. It’ll cost a bit more than people working out of their trunks - but you get what you pay for. As with all things ‘internet’, do your own research. I can suggest starting here https://cedia.org/homeowners/
Thank you!
Am electrician, 100% with you. Relying on apps and wifi for your home is NOT worth the money you save. It’s straightforward enough for us to do the job properly, and you will be MUCH happier with the results. It will also improve resale value, which your rinky-dink wifi devices won’t. Because they’ll be obsolete.
This isn’t me saying it to drum up work. We’ve got plenty of work. I ain’t selling nothing here. Invest in an electrician for a few days and it will pay off.
How easily can distributed sound be added if I’m gutrehabbing a house room-by-room?
This is a complicated answer just because there’s so many options and variables. We always tell people to run more wire than they think they’ll need.
Proper speaker wire is fire rated for in-wall use - don’t run lamp cord in your walls. 18 gauge, two pair or four pair is typical. While the walls are open; run at least one Cat6 to TVs, potential wifi access point locations, security camera locations, door bell, light switches, even speaker locations and someplace you think you might want a source component (turntable, etc). If you want controlled shades, they may take special wiring which you’d definitely want to run now. Worse case, 18/4 and Cat6. Everything should start from a central location not far from your electric panel.
You’ll need to balance how you want to control the system with how the system you want can be controlled. If you want in wall keypads or touch screens, that control system needs to be compatible or made compatible with your source gear. If you want to control everything with an iPhone or iPad, you’ll need to look into a control system that’s compatible with that.
Consider that a ubiquitous 110v commercial amplifier can likely power all the speakers in your home but it lacks volume control. Most whole home amplifiers lack a volume control you can operate from a mobile device. There are in-wall volume controls that can sit between the amplifier and the speakers. To use those, you could run 18/4 (and maybe Cat6) from the amp to the volume control then 18/2 from the volume control to the speaker. You could also consider a matrix switcher with preamp. This would distribute one or more sources to the amplifier channel (speaker zone) you choose and possibly give you remote volume control.
Those are just some thoughts. You might want to check out these sites for equipment ideas: monoprice, sweetwater, snapav, russound.
Thanks for the pointers! I appreciate you taking the time.
Both wireless and proprietary/single-supplier are deal-breakers for me. As such, stuff like what you install (presumably Crestron or similar) is just as worthless to me as the shit from Amazon. Basically, between surveillance capitalism and vendor lock-in, nobody in the industry wants to meet my needs. So I’m either going to have to resign myself to having a “dumb” house forever, or build the whole damn system from scratch myself with
blackjack and hookersArduinos and Home Assistant!There’s nothing wrong with building it yourself other than you need to acquire all the skills to do so and source all the components yourself and figure it out on your own when it doesn’t work. If that works for you, that’s great.
Crestron and Lutron stay out of the consumer market, in part, because you need to be a licensed electrician to install components of their systems. I can tell you from experience, even with the right training and certification, it’s very easy to blow something out. And when something doesn’t work, you have them for tech support and you get a great warranty. The stuff is rock solid and works for decades. I rather buy a home with a single supplier system than one that was hobbled together. Because when I then have a problem with something or want to upgrade the system, I know who to call and what the options are.
I hate battery items, and when I can I like wired. But retrofitting a 70 year old home with all that won’t be easy or cheap. I’ve already had to redo all my outlets and run new wires.
Other disadvantages for me are:
But I am an IT director. So I know my way around networking, programming, and system/server admin. I can segment, design, and secure the networking between the devices and run whatever systems I need for automation. I’ve run Ethernet throughout the house and am not afraid of cutting holes.
I’m trying to tie in some professional systems like Dante audio instead of smart speakers. Even though that means I’ll probably need a dedicated audio server.
And I’m tying in a lot of legacy protocols too. Like artnet and DMX for a lot of the show control systems I have. It’s really great being able to use so much dissimilar stuff and be able to control it from a single dashboard.
I can also automate temporary things like holiday lights or my big Halloween displays. I end up wiring most of my cars lights to DMX controlled relays and dimmers. Add fog machines and audio cues that I can sync up together.
But I do know that I’m a nerdy edge case here.
That’s pretty much what we do (including retrofitting 200+ year old farm houses). Just replace your home server with a Crestron box. For people who want to tinker on a regular basis, we could (I have) easily build them a custom interface but you certainly fit the bill of someone who should do it themselves. You’ve chosen this as a hobby and a life long commitment.
You know what they say about plumbers… always a leaky pipe in their house. Having been in the industry for decades, the last thing I want to do when I get home from work is futz around with networking and programming. I have wireless Ikea lighting. The battery has been dead on one of my smart buttons for a month and I’m too lazy to take two minutes to swap it.
I tinker mostly during the holidays. Show control is kind of a hobby. As are haunted houses.
Otherwise, everything just works at this point. I just have a few useful automation like turning all lights off with a button press, some lights that turn on at sunset and off at sunrise, and back door lights that turn on when the garage opens and it’s after sunset.
Otherwise everything still works as a switch, well button now, without Internet or my hub. I never need to explain to someone that comes in how to use anything.
I have some shit broken, like my automation that sent one of the robot vacuums out when I leave the house doesn’t work now that I’ve tried making sure it doesn’t go if my girlfriend is still home. But low priority. The shit I care about just works. The rest is when I get to it, eventually.
Oh, there are some distributers with some in-the-middle gear that might be sort of accessible to “consumers”. You might have to lie and say you’re a professional. Off the top of my head, I’ve worked with almo.com and adiglobaldistribution.us and snapav.com. Still, the skills to install and program this stuff is something to acquire.