I’ve been using all major OSes for a long time. I have the most experience with Windows, I’ve been using it since Windows 95 and stopped at Windows 8. I’ve been using macOS for about a decade and Linux (in total) for about 5 years. I have started with Mandrake, moved to Mandriva, spent over a year on Ubuntu and recently I’ve been using Fedora as my daily driver. And honestly, I’m running out of patience.
Few days ago I ran into the gpu driver issue. Long story short, Steam games started to crash on directx issue. Games that were working few weeks ago. I admit, I was mocking around with GPU drivers in order to make Podman containers to access the GPU. But I did the fresh diver install and it didn’t solved the issue (also my GPU was not found despite all commands showed it was there). I don’t have much spare time and I would like to play a game, I used to play before, without spending hours/days fixing issue that didn’t exist last time I played it.
But it’s not only about games. I have two laptops, both running Fedora 40 KDE spin. Some time ago on one laptop the power widget stopped working. It shows “no power profiles found on a device”. But when I delete the widget and add it again, it works fine.
Other issue is with the general look and feel. There are many apps that don’t follow the OS look - lack of window borders/shadow, random icons that don’t match the system, flatpacks having issues accessing system configuration (e.g. vscodium not recognising zsh as a default shell).
Few more problems I had:
- on GNOME, some extensions where crashing without any reason
- some apps don’t respect desktop scaling
- bluetooth randomly dropping connections
- syncing files between devices is always a struggle
- you never know what’s going to break when installing updates
If you want a Linux like experience use macOS, and if you want to play games, stick to Windows.
You were fucking with your GPU drivers, lost access to your GPU, and you have concluded from that that “regular users” (who don’t know what a driver is or does) should not use Linux?
EDIT: Stick a “normal” user on a stable distro with a clean UI like Mint or Fedora, keep in mind they probably don’t know what a terminal is and will probably never use it, and they will be fine for almost all cases.
As I said, I did a clean install and still all Steam games were failing on directx issue. Also, a “regular” user when switching to Linux will have to know what a GPU driver is in order to use it, event if it’s just for playing games. And the cherry on top - once I fixed the directx issue and I was able to play a game I wanted, the drivers update broke it. And despite spending days on fixing the issue, I got back to a square one.
If they use windows they also know what a GPU driver is, if they use AMD that’s better on linux, they don’t need to know what a GPU driver is. Unless of course the “normal” user need a rocm driver.
if they use AMD that’s better on linux, they don’t need to know what a GPU driver is.
Same goes for Intel, unless they need to use OneAPI.
He listed just a few more things then that
So you’re a user that tinkers with your system, breaks it, can’t get it working correctly again…and that’s Linux’ fault?
And you consider yourself an example of a “regular user?”
Why you say “Linux” when you mean “Fedora”?
You are not a regular user. My parents are regular users and they have been using Linux for years. They don’t know though. That’s a regular user.
started with Mandrake, moved to Mandriva, spent over a year on Ubuntu and recently I’ve been using Fedora
Another unpopular opinion:
That’s because you’ve been using distributions that are either behind the times or have a lot of wonky crap added to them that looks like user friendliness when it works and is like fixing windows when it doesn’t (I’ve been through similar path, just with a few other distros along the way)Start with Gentoo or Arch (maybe Slackware). These are close to the grass, so the way to set things up is the way to fix things up
some apps don’t respect desktop scaling
are these gtk based apps? Different toolsets require different envs
syncing
Have you tried syncthing?
Start with Gentoo or Arch
I wouldn’t recommend arch to general users. I consider myself a general linux user, and figuring out Arch, even after the installation hurdle, wasn’t easy for me.
is like fixing windows when it doesn’t
I don’t think Arch really makes that easy. Although, I guess archwiki is pretty great. Even arch forum helped me a lot with respect to other disto.
That’s why I wrote it’s another unpopular opinion. Somehow the internet claims Arch is hard when to me it’s been the easiest distro I’ve ever used
- No GUI bs, unless you install it yourself, that you never know what it does under the hood. The config file you find in
manis the config file that governs the thing - easy - You deleted a little bit too much? You just reinstall package, like in Slackware - easy
- You need something from outside the packages? Arch is very well prepared for you building things from source and install it in a sane way, instead of pure
make install, like Gentoo - easy
And PKGBUILD is easy to understand, RPM and DEB package creation is black magic - You don’t have a lot of crap in the system that you are not sure you need. Since it comes rather plain, you either install something you want, or it gets installed as dependency
But, of course, YMMV
And I’ve tried “easier” distros in the past. Sooner or later it always felt like I need proprietary set of keys to unscrew the lid to flip one small cable- No GUI bs, unless you install it yourself, that you never know what it does under the hood. The config file you find in
Start with Gentoo or Arch (maybe Slackware). These are close to the grass, so the way to set things up is the way to fix things up
I’ve tried Mint, openSUSE, Debian, Gentoo and Arch but I had other, non-regular user issues with those. I wanted to point out the standard issues.
are these gtk based apps? Different toolsets require different envs
Some were GTK based other were “optimised” for KDE
Have you tried syncthing?
Yes, I use it on a daily basis but there’s no easy way to get it working on iOS/iPadOS.
I was mocking around with GPU drivers in order to make Podman containers to access the GPU. (…) I don’t have much spare time and I would like to play a game, I used to play before, without spending hours/days fixing issue that didn’t exist last time I played it.
And
I had other, non-regular user issues with those
I think, you should keep these two things (messing with containers accessing GPU and “just play a game”) separate. I mean on separate boxes. Because now you can’t “just play” because you’ve been elbows deep in OS internals. You can’t take apart your fridge and then expect it to just cool the water the next day
“optimised” for KDE
Then I’m guessing these might need some KDE envs
Yes, I use it on a daily basis but there’s no easy way to get it working on iOS/iPadOS.
Ah, you’re trying to breach the non-open wall. Is there an app on i* that allows you to set up an ftp/http file sharing server on the device? You probably could set it up as rclone upstream
I think, you should keep these two things (messing with containers accessing GPU and “just play a game”) separate. I mean on separate boxes. Because now you can’t “just play” because you’ve been elbows deep in OS internals. You can’t take apart your fridge and then expect it to just cool the water the next day
I agree, that’s a valid point. But, I had a clean system, prepared for a normal user (clean install, official repositories, etc. And still GPU drivers refusded to work. I have covered all basics before I asked for help and even I got some good advice that worked, I ended up in the same place.
Then I’m guessing these might need some KDE envs
True, but sill for a regular user it looks like “Linux is ugly”
Ah, you’re trying to breach the non-open wall. Is there an app on i* that allows you to set up an ftp/http file sharing server on the device? You probably could set it up as rclone upstream
I know too well the unbreakable apple garden. And I don’t mind tinkering with it but again, we are at the regular user level, that wants things just to work.
Mate. Stick with Windows or MacOS. I don’t think Linux is for you.
Did you mean computers are a bad choice for regular users?
Something something touch grass. Bugs exist in all OSs. If my data sold & being advertized + tracked by a US-based company’s closed-source OS is the alternative, then I am just turning off the computer & starting a farm.
Look, Microsoft Windows and Apple OS are the worst you can have.
tldr: Linux can have driver issues and programs or updates might not work as expected. So anything you can expect from any major OS.
Linux sucks, Windows is worse, MacOS is useless. We must conclude that those systems are not a good choice for regular users. I recommend a simple pocket calculator instead. No graphics drivers to worry about, no firmware updates, if it goes wrong you just press the reset button and it’s ready to go again in a tenth of a second, no need to do backups, you can get a pretty good one for $20, light weight, really good battery life. Much better in almost every way.
‘28008 3434’, can share memes on those things too, you just need to hold it upside down
sounds reasonable
Yes, that, in fact, is an unpopular opinion here.
You must be LTT’s chaperone
Thanks for reminding me, there’s also " supporting" linux community…
My kids, who began using Linux at home and then Chrome OS since the ages of 5 ,would suggest that it’s only older users who are completely stuck in their ways and can’t adapt to different operating systems.
I’ve been lucky enough to dumb guy my fedora install since 28, and it’s been pretty decent to me. Granted I’m not using nvidia graphics, and I feel like that could throw a big spanner in the works for regular users. It’s a big enough leap getting into the mindset of installing software from Distro repos rather than directly from the vendor.
I hope the newer nv open kernel modules don’t stay out of tree. Also hope that NVK will give users the ability to just plug and play with mesa drivers in the future.
If you want a hands off linux experience
- ChromeOS
- AndroidOS
