I’m just a newb when it comes to high grade keyboards, but these things look wild, and I kind of want to try one.
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Ergodox EZ has my whole hearted recommendation. Their keyboards are amazing and the only thing better for ergonomics would be a more custom curved piece.
They’re a good company, I would recommend anyone checking them out.
Second this, using my ergodox right now.
Using one right now. Never had a better one.
Another vote for the ErgoDox EZ. It’s pricey but very much worth the investment. Makes me hate every other keyboard I use lol
They’re dope. Everything being the same size (1u) is fun. I’ve only ever typed on one though. I have 4 custom keyboards and none of them are orthos.
My fingers are crooked and better suited to a normal keyboard lol
Have you ever used an ortholinear one?
No.
even with crooked fingers, unless your fingers are crooked in opposite directions an ortholinear one is still better
My middle finger curl outside which means my left middle finder perfectly follows the path from S to W which is important as a gamer. Honestly, I think I’m the latest in an evolutionary arms race to produce more biologically effective keyboard gamers.
unless you have the most fucked up middle finger that shouldn’t be an issue. fun fact, I moved w and s one down. s is where x was and w is where s was. makes gaming a lot nicer.
The devil’s creation.
I’m of the firm opinion that the best keyboard layout and type is the one you feel most comfortable with.
But then I’m also of that opinion when it comes to things like desktop OSes, phone brands, etc.
It’s not a popular opinion.
That sometimes works, but sometimes the right way is not immediately comfortable so people so stuff that seems right and hurt themselves. Sometimes the thing that seemed correct initially was only because of a lack of deeper understanding and an ignorance of the knowledge of those who have already made the mistakes.
I dance, play instruments, drive cars, and do a whole lot of other things where the immediately comfortable thing is so often one of the best ways to develop a massively limiting habit that is a huge pain to get away from once you realize how badly it’s holding you back.
It’s a case-by-case basis, of course, but simply “the best is what you’re most comfortable with” does not have near the nuance it needs to not be abused. It is great advice for people once they have built up a strong base of knowledge, and until then they need to get over it and try things.
I agree with you when it comes to ergonomics. When it comes to software… Not so much. You do you though! No shade.
I share that opinion! Doowutchyalike!
Unfortunately what you are most comfortable could also cause repetitive stress injury like carpal tunnel. I have a brother in law who damaged his nerves because a Macplus keyboard felt best to him.
I’ve been typing pretty much every day since I was 6 and got my brother’s old Apple ][+. I’m 47 now and still no carpal tunnel.
I’ve been using a computer on an almost daily basis for over a decade now, and before that I used one whenever I had the opportunity because I’ve loved computers since I was a kid. I’m 30 and have carpal tunnel in my mouse hand, not bad enough to get it surgically fixed, but I wear a wrist brace pretty much 24/7 at this point to keep the pain under control.
That said I agree with your point about using whatever you’re comfortable with completely, just wanted to throw my own anecdotal experience out there for others to see. Everyone’s different and what’s fine for you or me may not be for others.
Tried a Typematrix. At the time, I was a roving freelancer who frequently worked with other people at their machines, so I decided that it was safer to stick with a conventional layout.
Having Enter on the thumb was interesting, but I never got used to it.
I love my ortholinear 40%. I don’t think I can ever go back.
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Prefer column staggered, but yes they really make you wonder how we got stuck with the dominant keyboard configurations. Typing with linear columns feels way more natural.
Wasn’t the whole idea to minimize the amount of times your typewriter seized up? Happened often enough with QWERTY keyboards when it came to the cheap typewriters. Yes, I’m old.
That is why the letters are all in a funny order, but that’s not why the keys were staggered. They were staggered because of the mechanical linkages underneath the keys, so the linkages could be made straight rather than having to bend around other keys in the way.
Typewriters.
They had bars that needed to physically move, and so staggering them helped them not collide and get jammed.
If you imagine a bar coming from the center of each key towards your screen, you can see how the staggering was helpful. For instance, M misses J and K above it, naturally, but it also slightly misses I and the 8 above that.
It’s a great solution for a nonexistent problem in keyboards.
It probably really helped people who learned to type on a typewriter make the first changeovers, and now it’s what everybody learns to type on for the most part so it hasn’t budged. I’ve noticed at work that my gen z coworkers often struggle to type out a solid nursing note (most of them learned to type on a phone screen) so I wonder if this is maybe an opportunity for more of those alternative layouts to start taking hold as typing becomes a less common thing people need to learn early on.
I have an ortho I made, and I just couldn’t get used to it. I’ve never had any keyboard-related RSI, and my “spider dance” typing is very much a hand-eye coordination task, so… ehhh. No neuroplasticity for it.
I sense I’m about to fall into a deep, deep rabbit hole 😄
Resistance is futile.
This is what I use every day
Is that an ErgoDash? I use the same. Good for people who want a fuller keyboard layout.
yup
for keyboard shortcuts do they map with the key location or physically? for control + p (print page) would you press control + y or the actual p button?
They work the same, Ctrl+P for print. The layout is programmed into the keyboard microcontroller; your computer never gets any information beyond which key you’re pressing.
This is something I would consider using. I’ve had issues in the past with tendonitis and I don’t want that issue to get worse.
Ergodox makes keyboards like this. Don’t know if they sell them in Colemak key position like this one, I know they do QWERTY. I’ve been meaning to get one myself for aaages, but I have too many other stupid things I spend my money on instead.
My other keyboard is an Ergodox 76. All mechanical keyboards can have their firmware re-flashed to whatever key organization you want. Then you just move the key labels to the right places (optional)
Moving away from qwerty to colemak-dh did more for my tendonitis than the keyboard itself. Having both an ortho linear / columnar stagger keyboard and a better layout is the end goal though. But the layout makes the biggest impact.
Then the next biggest impact will be getting a keyboard with a thumb cluster so you can do more with your thumb in a comfy position rather than your pinkies stretched out to the edges of the keyboard.
Is that your own layout, or is it a scheme like QWERTY or DVORAK that I haven’t heard about?
It’s centered around Colemak but of course there is no standard for the extra thumb and pinky keys. I have enter, right shift, and FN on the right thumb, then spacebar, ctrl, and FN2 on the left thumb. FN2 makes the left side into a number pad.
Colemak is an alternative keyboard created by Shai Coleman, named as a portmanteau of Dvorak and Coleman. Its design goals consist of easy transition from QWERTY due to repositioning only 17 letter keys. Additionally the AZXCV shortcuts are in the same location perhaps allowing an easier time switching from QWERTY.
It also claims greater efficiency than Dvorak. Furthermore it places complete emphasis on the home-row: the ten most-common characters in English are on the ten home-row keys.
Source: Wikipedia
I type in dvorak and actually love it. It just feels comfortable when I type.
Only 17 letters that’s not half is it
Fellow Dvorak user here. Can’t recommend it enough.
In one of my classes at the beginning of my doctoral studies we talked about parth dependency, and QWERTY was used as an example. All studies showed that even experienced typists would increase their typing speed within just a few days of switching, and that it’s just a superior set-up. But because of path dependency we all write QWERTY.
I changed my layout the same day and I haven’t looked back. If you want to start messing around with your keyboard and you use it for typing, switching to Dvorak should be the obvious first step. Colemak is a compromise solution that is still a lot better than QWERTY and probably quicker to learn.
No need to get a new keyboard. Dvorak is designed around touch typing, you won’t be looking at the keyboard anyway.
Oh my gosh, there’s a whole two of us! 🥲
just to chime in on alternative keyboard layouts:
I’m german and can’t recommend the neo2 family of layouts enough.
I currently am using the “noted” layout and it feels absolutely amazing.The different layer approach makes it easy to write all the symbols for programming I need, or if you are a writer, all the »correct« „quotation“ marks.
there’s even support for all the greek letters used in math equations: ℤℵ×∀ℂΣ∫∃∇ℕℝ∂ΛΦΨYou can learn more about the layout here (site is in german):
https://www.neo-layout.org/
That’s a columnar stagger, not ortholinear.
I was kinda disappointed that this article didn’t explain columnar stagger.
I daily drive an iris by keebio.
sweet
Interesting, what layout is that,
Colemak
Are there full-size ortho keyboards?
Short answer: Yes. ID75 or XD75 pack in a full set of keys in 80% case. Some are pretty ridiculous - BFO-9000 or FU!Keyboard
Long answer: most orthos are designed so that you can hold layer shift keys with your thumbs(RSE, LWR for Raise and Lower) to type other keys(e.g. Lower+J types “-“ and Raise+J types “_”). This way you type the keys of a full layout without moving your hands off home row and with less keys overall.
I don’t know of anything marketed as such, though some ortholinear POS terminals can be easily repurposed into big keyboards. The ortho users tend to be very interested in ergonomics, and one of the guiding principles there is minimizing hand movement (sometimes I personally think this goes a bit far; it seems to me that if it’s good to move the rest of your body from time to time, it’s good to move your arms and hands too). Most of them are quite small. The biggest size I’ve seen regularly is 75 keys in a 15x5 grid. Of course, ortho/ergo is also a very DIY-friendly space, so sometimes you see… outliers. LOL.
Ortholinear is a great gateway into better keyboards and a better layout. I started with a planck and used it to learn colemak-dh. I have since moved to a more DIY split keyboard with a columnar layout which is ortholinear except the volume are staggered to fit the length of fingers better.
This journey has been a godsend in helping my RSI issues from my Dev job.
I just received my 4x12 keyboard 4 days ago! While there has been a steep learning curve and I took a huge hit on my typing speed, I really enjoy using it. I was a bit hesitant to spend much $$$ on something I wasn’t sure about, so I decided that if I didn’t like it that I could just use it as a macropad or use it in place of my dying Logitech G13 gaming pad. So far, I’ve been carrying it between work and home and using it for everything. If all goes well, this will be my main and only keyboard.
It’s a CSTC40 that I bought from aliexpress. Unfortunately, it looks like they stopped selling it after I received mine (lucky me!). This unit seems to get shit on by mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, but I love it because it was cheap ($70CDN shipped) and didn’t require soldering. I happened to have a set of keycaps that I’ve made work for this keyboard. I don’t really look down when I’m typing, so I don’t really care that some of the legends don’t make sense.
Has your ability to type on a staggered keyboard taken a hit?
I figured out a mental trick after 2 days. It’s hard to explain in words, but here goes…
In my brain, I created a second typing profile where in my minds-eye, I imagine the ortholinear keys while on my new keyboard. When I go back to my old keyboard, I try to keep my brain aware that it’s the old layout. I have a Logitech G13, which is an ortholinear style gaming pad, so I think my brain was already wired for ortholinear finger movements and it was already natural for my brain to distinguish between the two.
Now, the “weirdest” keys for me to type on the old keyboard are C, B, Y. I realize how super annoying it is having to stretch my fingers out for some keys and that’s why I’m certain that I’m going to stick with ortholinear in the long run.
Orthos are far superior to staggered keyboards. No finger is bigger than 1U and you don’t have to twist or move your hands.
I disagree with that for thumbs, mine tend to be much flatter against the keyboard than my arched fingers, so I can hit the split space and mods easier with my thumbs if that row is at least 1.5u and preferably 2u for at least the split space keys. 1Us on the bottom row forces me to either contort my thumb or even worse, use my fingers for the bottom row.
Strongly disagree on the not twisting part. You need a split keyboard to get the proper wrist angle
