Summary
A baby red panda named Roxie at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland died from “stress caused by fireworks” after choking on her vomit, just days after her mother’s sudden death.
The incident, occurring around the U.K.’s Bonfire Night celebrations, has led to renewed calls for stricter fireworks regulations.
A petition with over a million signatures urging restrictions on public fireworks sales was submitted to the U.K. government.
Edinburgh recently implemented limited fireworks control zones, but animal welfare advocates argue for broader measures to prevent similar tragedies.
That’s sad. Why are they selling baby red pandas?
they can’t eat all of them before the best before date
Sale of Fireworks
Hold my flashbang, I’m going in!
Why can’t they put them in a sound safe zone till the fireworks dissipate? This zoo is incompetent and should be investigated
Or, maybe fireworks should just not be a thing.
Because a lot of idiots keep shooting fireworks even though the day they’re supposed to be used on has not yet come or has long passed. Here, they’re supposed for New Year’s Eve. The first one this autumn went off sometime in September. The last one usually goes off sometime in February. What are the zookeepers supposed to do?
Yeah if man made noise is a problem for a species maybe don’t house them in the FUCKING CITY…
Here’s Another thought too. Zoos are notorious for animal cruelty issues. How about not have animals locked up cruelly for our entertainment.
Fireworks fucking suck & it’s exactly the assholes you expect who promote/buy/use them.
Says it was the “fireworks causing stress” that killed it not imprisoning a wild animal in a foreign environment. I am having a hard time blaming the fireworks here.
Fireworks and red pandas have both existed at the same time for hundreds of years. Red pandas first discovered in 1825 by a French zoologist. One would assume it didn’t just blink into existence (however, I can’t prove it). Fireworks came about around 200 BC.
One would presume that there’s been a lot of overlap.
It’s possible the fireworks exacerbated a problem but it’s not the root cause.
😭
So susceptible to stres. Zoos often lack enough cover and “hide away” spots for them. Poor thing
I’m glad to hear these little red dudes aren’t extinct yet, tbh.
Me too.
I’m dubious. Mom dies suddenly, then baby dies suddenly after choking on it’s own vomit. Yeah, no, let’s blame the fireworks. Surely, nothing else could be the cause of Red Panda deaths at this zoo.
Maybe they should have called some vet experts to investigate. Oh wait that is exactly what they did but I am sure people on the internets know more about animals. Not a big fan of zoos but people who armchair are magnitudes worse.
They didn’t call in an outside vet to investigate. The fucking zoo keepers are vets. The zoo keepers are telling you what happened. You can believe them or not, but it’s not accountability.
Check under the vet team here:
https://www.rzss.org.uk/conservation/meet-the-team
Professors, veterinary surgeons, veterinary nurses etc. Edinburgh zoo is not just your run of the mill local village zoo. So sorry buddy, I am sure you will understand if I still trust the word of these people on the matter and not you, a random person with distaste against zoos (not a big fan either to be honest). I mean this is not just any field as well, this is zoology. People usually get into it because they love animals and such. It is not completely impossible for someone in this field to lie to cover up but now it is just your personal distaste against zoos and human kind vs several very well trained people on the field… As I said, I am not a big fan of zoos either and somewhat undecided about conservatories (which is what “Edinburgh Zoo” actually is) but that does not make people working there terrible lying scum bags.
You’re doing good work. It seems as though the only people who still appreciate actual expertise, are the experts themselves. Nobody can discern fiction from reality anymore.
And no medical professional has ever been found to be biased in their opinion. And no reporter ever misrepresented what someone said to make a more sensational article. Stress is not a well understood thing. There is no test for confirming the source of stress. And the vets aren’t saying their is. Did the fireworks contribute, sure I would trust a vet who says that, and it was probably what they actually said. But a babies Mom dieing, and not being there to comfort the baby from the stress of fireworks is probably a bigger contributor. Also read a little further down where the expert says we can’t rule out fireworks as the cause. That is totally different. Seems like the vets don’t agree.
right and random strangers on the internet are completely unbiased and generally reasonable? It does not give one enough reason to completely disregard experts’opinions. vets are saying that it probably is a contributing factor whereas people in this thread are claiming that it is the zoo who is trying to cover up for bad conditions and negligence in the zoo. tell me which one sounds more reasonable?
Neither one has to be correct. One experts opinion is that they couldn’t rule it out. That sounds reasonable. I do think that the zoo bares some responsibility for bringing such a fragile species into a city. Zoo’s do a lot of good too. But they knew there would be fireworks. Where were they? Why wasn’t someone there to take the baby to it’s enclosure. Or sedate it during the fireworks. People do more for their adult dogs than the zoo did for this baby. I don’t think it’s a cover up or anything. They have lot’s of experts. They quoted the one that said the most sensational thing. I am not saying disregard the experts, I am saying a hand picked (by people with an agenda) sample size of one is not evidence of anything. I am willing to bet if you took a poll of all of the experts at that zoo, you would get a much less confident opinion, more like the “can’t rule it out” than the “fireworks killed the baby” person.
People do more for their adult dogs than the zoo did for this baby
The fact of the matter is that you or I don’t really have any information what the zoo did for this baby or did not. Most everything in this topic is pure speculation and has to do with more how people see the world through their eyes than any evidence or fact. The only piece of evidence we have is what the vet experts have said. Anything else is a huge “maybe”.
One experts opinion is that they couldn’t rule it out
That is a much stronger statement that, “fireworks was probably not the cause of this”. They could also have just gone with “stress due to loss of the mother” easily and no one would really think twice about it. But they did choose to make this statement. Experienced vet surgeons/nurses etc who have had the opportunity to experience how animals behave under these conditions many many times. Also mind you this one way the news has been reported, I have seen multiple instance where the wording is more stronger such as:
"Very sadly, she choked on her vomit on Bonfire Night and our vets believe this was probably a reaction to fireworks,” said Ben Supple, RZSS’s deputy chief executive. Roxie had access to her den but the frightening noises seem to have been too much for her. We are also concerned that fireworks cause stress to other animals in the zoo.”
I have seen remarks in this topic ranging from “their vets are just the zookepers” to “animals don’t vomit because of fireworks”. It is just ridiculous. Even these vet experts have not made their statements in such certainty as the people in this topic.
“But they did choose to make this statement” they answered a question honestly. They didn’t choose the question. And I agree we don’t know what the vets are actually saying. We know only what the media reports. Which is my point. People are putting words into the vets mouths that maybe one vet might say, but others clearly disagree with. The article doesn’t represent the vets (collective) point of view. So anyone saying the vets are wrong is mistaken because they don’t even know what the vets really think. And similar for saying the vets are right.
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I had a whole thing earlier but was mistaken, the baby was 3 months old not a newborn. Either way, I still don’t doubt that fireworks could easily stress out a very young animal and be the tipping point of their health.
I’m not sure what could motivate them to make a grand conspiracy against fireworks, rather than the more likely result of them being exhausted and frustrated caretakers who, like any pet owner, probably spent that evening trying to calm the panda down only to watch it panic until it died. Stress vomiting isn’t really rare for animals on the 4th of July. It’s just the extreme end of stress.
I’m not saying that it’s a conspiracy against fireworks, but possibly a problem with the habitat, food, or something else that would cause big issues for the zoo if discovered. The fireworks were convenient. I have zero evidence for this other than the fact that a lot of zoos are complete cesspools, and so I typically don’t trust “suddenly died” followed three days later by another “suddenly died” regardless of how many fireworks were launched off.
Also, there is this line:
Roxie had access to her den but the frightening noises seem to have been too much for her.
Seems like the zoo just left a weak animal to suffer instead of taking precautions to assure that the panda was placed in a safe location. It makes me doubt that anyone was even there, and that the zookeepers returned the following day to a dead red panda and tried to cover it up.
“I have zero evidence for this…”
Says it all really.
Tell me, what was the purpose of your comment? What are you trying to say?
Seems pretty obvious, but I guess I’ll do them a solid and spell it out for you: you are talking out of your ass.
That’s fair, I definitely jumped to the “they wanna take away fireworks” conspiracy on my end, too much arguing on the Internet for me this week >.<
I do hope they look into it. I just know how freaked out my pets have been in the past, inconsolable at times, so the fireworks being a real factor wouldn’t surprise me. I’d hope they would have meds to help calm the animals, but I wonder if they were too young for them, or had a dosage issue.
Whether or not it was the direct cause in this case, fireworks cause a lot of animals a lot of stress and deaths do come from it.
I don’t see why anyone needs to be able to buy explosives to use at home, firework shows should be organised in set locations and should use low noise fireworks as much as possible.
I used to think fireworks were fun, but after getting a dog that is terrified of them, you start noticing all the little things.
People shoot then off randomly throughout the year. They leave behind garbage waste. Animals and even some humans seem to get PTSD from them.
I’m in favor of very limited fireworks in specific areas.
I’m a veteran and used to get worked up by them. It took a few years but I mostly got over it because they were predictable, the city put out notices as well as the local baseball team. And then they were legalized for a specific time frame for everybody. Any random asshole could buy and shoot off fireworks during a 3 day window.
Cool, I can hang with that. But then they shoot them off randomly for the 2 weeks surrounding the weekend that they’re allowed. That I can’t hang with. Especially during the day. Why the fuck are you shooting them off during the day anyways?!? You can’t see it! The thing that pisses me off the most? The motherfuckers shooting shit off at random times and days? Those assholes would happily suck my dick if I told them I’m a veteran and told them to do so. But then they’d fire off more fireworks to celebrate doing so.
So the zoo loses 2 red pandas in a couple days and instead of investigating the conditions of their care, they blame it on the public being loud?
There are easy ways to protect your pets from fireworks noise so this stinks of scapegoating for their own terrible care.
instead of investigating the conditions
Yea they should have sent some vet experts to investigate. Oh wait…
"Veterinary experts at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland announced on Wednesday that a 3-month-old panda named Roxie died “due to stress caused by fireworks being let off across the city centre.”
Ofcourse they could always just be there to burry evidence to further their holy crusade against fireworks!
Ofcourse they could always just be there to burry evidence to
further their holy crusade against fireworks!hide negligence.Ftfy
yea with a bunch of veterinary surgeons, nurses and zoology professors at their service, I am sure they were still not able to come up with a fake reason that your keen eyes were not able to spot immediately.
Exactly. All they had to do was buy a couple of earplugs. And they call themselves professionals… Hah.
Also, why ban something when you can just have area bans?
Even just bringing it an age limit is a good start. loads of kids buy tons of these fireworks after guy Fawkes and diwali because they are cheaper so it is more like two weeks of unending fireworks rather than two nights.
Has the mother also died from early Fireworks? Since when do fireworks cause vomiting…
Since vet experts claim that they do.
"Veterinary experts at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland announced on Wednesday that a 3-month-old panda named Roxie died “due to stress caused by fireworks being let off across the city centre.”
Haven’t you heard? Expertise doesn’t matter anymore, and any rando on the internet’s view is just as valid as an expert’s (and my buddy’s view on it is even more valid).
I truly wish that I could say this was a joke.
For a second I thought this was Reddit with all the armchairing. Holy crap
Armchair zoologist, that’s a new one to add to the bingo board
I’m genuinely shocked it wasn’t there and marked already.
It was probably just missed
Stress can cause vomiting, hell it can cause it in humans!
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People don’t even watch their own babies 24/7, do you expect them to do it for baby red pandas?
A whole zoo of animals stressed out of their fucking mind, you think they had the staff to have one person with each animal to make sure they were ok?
Yeah this sounds REAL off.
Red panda infants are pretty fragile and often don’t survive in captivity. I would assume the mom passed away from complications due to birthing, but it could be anything.
Hey, if your country is overrun by red panda infestations, you know exactly what to do!
Die from cuteness overload?
No! Fireworks! 🎇🎆🎇🎇🎆. Just pop a whole bunch and your panda problems would be history. C’mon man 😂. We can save the world! From red pandas
but… I don’t want to save the world from red pandas.
I want to leave, and dying from cuteness overload sounds like not such a bad way to go.
Let me tell you the story of the great Knocrates. He was a Greek philosophy major from ancient UCLA. He really liked cute things and one day he was between two of the most beautiful tits women kind had ever grown. Look the point is that you probably don’t want cute 🥺🥰. It doesn’t last. Anyway you want Hot 🥵🔥🥵. You want 🔥!
You don’t hear about a great red panda browser. But you hear about Firefox a lot! See what I mean? So fireworks 🎆🎇🎇 it is!
Plz no. We are so cute. 🥺
Man, people really do love their fireworks… Noise, light and pollution, Yay!
I wonder how many of you guys complain about cars for the same reasons…
People can get really defensive and hostile about fireworks and I’ve never really understood it.
I quit smoking at the beginning of this summer because it’s a terrible habit that’s inconsiderate to others at best(and bad for me too). So I quit. The thing is I actually liked smoking…Nicotine is something else(I used nicotine gum for anyone wondering)
So if I can accept that about smoking, why is it so hard for folks to understand that fireworks, while enjoyable, can have detrimental effects to other living creatures nearby? Some of whom might be people? It’s just really strange to me.
Don’t forget the fires and injuries!
Over here, it’s pretty rare to have a car that causes a lot of noise.
A few days ago, there was a car crossing me that was quieter than my cycle’s hub. And it was an ICE.
Only the “sports” cars and bikes tend to be loud and thanks to petroleum prices (and the vehicle’s price itself) are much less in number.But loudspeakers and fireworks, I cannot bear.
Air pollution? Mine is a smoker’s country. People like me are lucky not to be handed the Darwin award.
Coming to answer after being woken up by a neighbour’s after-party noise, after a few hours of inadequate sleep caused due to noise from said party. And it’s half past ten. On top of that, I have had a bad sleep for the past 2 weeks due to continuous bombardment (no, that’s just Diwali) for the past 2 weeks.
And even from the video, you may notice - It’s less about cars, but that people are loud:
- People like car go vroom vroom
- People like farting motorcycles and most of them over here, buy non-farting motorbikes and get them modified to get them to fart. Same for farting cars. Only a few cars that fart by default. Mist of the farters are modded.
- The horn problem is also more about people and less about traffic necessity. On top of that, the sound-proof cabins make it hard for car drivers to hear cycle bells. I recently got a near miss from that.
- And guess what, that area also gets loud when there’s a party
- Tire noise, I’d rather have that. How else would I know when there is a car behind me, before they blast the horn? In fact, me detecting the car first, looking back to see their lane and giving way, has prevented a lot of potential horns. But yes, if the low sound roads and the porous roads that help in rainwater infiltration (causing groundwater replenishment and reducing sinkhole probability) are the same, then I would definitely be for it.
Air pollution:
Taken from 9:13 in the video.- Roads have been pretty breathable [1] ever since Catalytic converters and I have been mostly fine, breathing heavily while running over 35.
- There is another kind of farters. The vehicles who don’t get proper maintenance and start puffing white smoke, filling the road air with it, making me have to take a stop or hastily overtake them.
There is just one case, where I would look differently and that is the case of tuk-tuks and mopeds, which turns out to be out of necessity and lack of money. Because those have to be cheap, to cater to the requirement of the target customer, reduced noise comes lower in the list of priorities.
at least as long as you are only considering the vehicle smoke and not the smoke coming out of smouldering sticks in the rider’s/driver’s mouths ↩︎
This is just sensational reporting. From the comments, it looks like it is working. Usesome of the critical thinking we ask trump supporters to use. Medical science isn’t at the point that it can know which source of stress caused a thing. And in this case the baby had also lost it’s mother, a source of comfort. And read the whole article. “We know that fireworks can cause stress to other animals in the zoo and we cannot rule out that they may have contributed to the untimely death of Roxie’s mother Ginger, just five days’ earlier.”
They don’t even know what killed the mother.
I am sure the fireworks were a contributing factor, but sounds like the baby was already in a weakened state.
We collectively need to get over this concept that media is accurately representing the truth with intent to inform. Media is a business. It’s intent is to make money. And with lot’s of competitors, it can only survive by making the stories it reports more sensational than they are (cause their competitors are doing it) to get the clicks. Some are better than others, but they all have to do it to survive.
You’re correct that people should apply critical thought, and using a cute baby animal for this message is manipulative and people should be aware of that, but it doesn’t make the message any less important. There are many reasons to ban them. They look somewhat pretty, but you can go to a show done by professionals that’ll be more impressive.
Fireworks not only cause stress for animals, but also humans. (A pet peeve of mine is memorial day/Veterans day fireworks shows. In what world is throwing explosives around good for former soldiers?) They are a not insignificant cause of fires. They’re just generally harmful and do very little good. We don’t need them.
If spreading a manipulative article works to change people’s minds towards something better, it’s probably worth it. You can be sure other people are doing it against good.
Hello JD Vance. If you need deception to change people’s minds, maybe it’s you who is wrong.
Nope. If you just lay down and let the bad guys win because you refuse to fight, that isn’t the moral option. Be honest and use reason where it’s valuable, but don’t refuse to use emotions when that’s useful too. People with bad intention will be using it and refusing to play the game is only empowering them.
Anger is a much more useful emotion than sadness.
I believe compassion to be more constructive, but fear and anger are definitely more motivating. All emotions are sometimes useful and always an opportunity for manipulation, for better or worse, that people should be aware of.
I find it immensely infuriating that the article’s byline shows they are reporting from ‘London’ when in fact this happened not just in a different city, Edinburgh, but in a completely different country, Scotland.
Sad about the pandas, there are far too many people that simply can’t be trusted with fireworks. Limiting it to a single night in dedicated display venues run by licensed organisations wouldn’t remove the noise entirely, but it would reduce the frequency and would probably help all animals.
