Lemmy has a strong tendency to criticize the US, and a lot of the critiques of certain issue with the US are valid. However, I started getting really tired of opening comment sections in innocuous and non-political posts only to see that someone somehow found a way to criticize the US in it. At first, I started thinking that maybe some Lemmy users are really unhappy and find criticizing a something stronger helped them feel better as if standing up to injustice was a passion of theirs. But, we don’t see them do that with other targets, just the US. The more I notice and think about it, I’m starting be suspicious that some of those users and comments aren’t authentic, but made to create divisiveness in the West and reject the US entirely. In other words, they may be Russian, Chinese, et al. agents working to feed a stream of propaganda in order to further cause chaos and lack of unity in the West as we have seen them do before.
Anyone else think about this?
This is what I’m thinking the game plan is:
- Criticize something obviously unjust that the US has done. Ignore that all other major powers have also committed atrocities.
- Link and liken it to other US matters & behaviors
- Paint the US entirely as evil so that nothing the US can do is just
- Attack anyone that supports anything out of the US (we are between here and #3 above)
- Create a black-and-white model of geopolitics: US vs everyone else. EU and Russia on the same team lol
- West fragments as US and EU relationship dwindle from pseudo-populist movements (e.g. MAGA)
- Pick specific countries in the EU to start alienating and repeat the cycle
- ???
- Profit in special economic zones
Your question contains hints at where you’re coming from.
At first, I started thinking that maybe some Lemmy users are really unhappy and find criticizing a something stronger helped them feel better
You look at the criticism and you think they’re simply people being jealous or something, that’s not it at all. To be fair I’m not sure about what criticism are you seeing constantly, but the ones I’ve encountered mostly reflect my own criticism of it, e.g. the worst health care in the world, terrible education, abismal class gap, blatant racism, police brutality, overspenditure in military, school shootings, etc, etc, etc. Let me be absolutely clear, the US is NOT stronger than any developed country in any of these, I’ve lived in places with terrible healthcare that I would not wish on my worst enemy and they’re still leaps and bounds better than what you guys have.
But, we don’t see them do that with other targets, just the US.
But we do, the difference is no one is making posts claiming Russia is a better country and that’s why people criticize it. And most other countries accept their shortcomings, take it from the thread a while back from what people in the US need to hear and the similar one for Europe. Every single one of the answers on the US had someone saying that it was just jealousy, or that it wasn’t all that bad, or that that was better than the alternative, or one guy even tried to tell me that his city had none of those issues. On the other hand in the EU one most of the answers were more akin to “you’re right, this is something that’s really bad here”.
reject the US entirely. In other words, they may be Russian, Chinese, et al. agents working to feed a stream of propaganda in order to further cause chaos and lack of unity in the West as we have seen them do before.
Let me be extremely clear here, Fuck Russia, Fuck China. For all of my criticisms of the USA it is still a (very weird and indirect) democracy. So if I had to choose between those 3 I’ll take the USA every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Luckily I don’t, and I can live in a country without any of the issues I see there and express my opinion on how poorly the USA treats their citizens (you have to keep paying taxes after moving abroad for crying out loud) in the same manner I would express myself against any other country doing the same.
Criticize something obviously unjust that the US has done. Ignore that all other major powers have also committed atrocities.
Most of the criticism I see re for what the US is doing NOW, not in the past.
Paint the US entirely as evil so that nothing the US can do is just
I don’t think that’s what the majority is doing, there could be a few people like it, but for the major part I think people recognize that the USA is a a “decent” place to live, especially when compared to Russia or China. But what you need to understand is that it’s not the greatest country of all like you think, most of us would not move there unless we were offered ludicrous amounts of money.
EU and Russia on the same team lol
No one in Europe believes that, in fact you can still see plenty of Ukrainian flags around.
West fragments as US and EU relationship dwindle from pseudo-populist movements (e.g. MAGA)
If you think MAGA is pseudo-populism I would hate to see what you consider as real populism.
The short answer is that you’re probably not used to people telling you the US is not all that great, so you see that as an attack, and you think that because people criticize you that means they are trying to make others hate you, but I think most of us are just pointing your shortcomings because a lot of you act like very entitled narcissists who think there’s nothing wrong with the USA so obviously those who speak against it must be puppets.
TL;DR: criticism of the USA doesn’t mean there’s nothing good there, much less is it an endorsing Russia or China. But you don’t need to tell narcissists what they’re doing well, they’ll tell you themselves.
the difference is no one is making posts claiming Russia is a better country and that’s why people criticize it.
I see you also wisely blocked Lemmy.ml
Lemmy was founded to be where anti-American Americans would go after a lot of their subs were quarantined on Reddit.
That said, it has a major American focus because a lot of users are angry with the American system and don’t have a ton of experience with others directly. They’ve developed an echo chamber here and only got interrupted by the Reddit exodus.
I’m American. I’ll jump on the criticize America bandwagon any day!
So, no, we suck in the worst possible ways. That is really all there is to it
As a French guy, I can say that I suck way more than you. America has the American dream. France has the “we suck, we complain about it all the time, and we’re proud of it” vibe.
France also has the “take my rights, we take your head” attitude. I like that.
Everyone talks about how fun chopping up the Bourbons was and then leaves out how shitty the Reign of Terror was in the wake
Nowadays it’s the modern version: “we don’t like that, and we’ll complain very loudly about it.”
Mais oui
Fuck the US hyper-centrism. If this place was so anti US, why are all the communities titled “News” and “Politics” exclusively for discussing seppo shit? This place is less US-centric than other platforms but is still extremely US focused. If you look for more than a second, you will find anti-russia, anti-china, anti-israel and anti-germany shit too (just to name a few). Finally, I just want to say, fuck the United States of America and everything that that hellhole represents. I am sorry that you have to live there
I’m allowed to complain. I live here.
I’m American and the main reason I don’t aim the same criticism towards other countries is that I’m American and don’t know enough about them. Maybe some people are agitating for malign purposes, but how much does that matter to a responsible netizen? No one knows who anyone is - maybe idiot takes are made by idiots or bad actors, it doesn’t change much. Lastly, one quote stuck with me after the last election season : " the reactionary is always right about what is wrong but almost always wrong about what would be right"
Best take, honestly. It’s tribalism. People love to generalize and lean on prejudice to feel superior to a broad swath of people based on things largely out of their control. Which is exactly why the same approach also happens to work as propaganda.
Have you seen America lately?
No
Well, I’m a real European who is not a fan of the US. Not to the point where I’d prefer Russia or other dictatorship shitholes, but it’s like having to choose between getting kicked in the balls really hard and getting shot in the head (just for context, I’m not one of the people who enjoy being kicked in the balls).
Every sane person in this situation would choose getting kicked in the balls, but that doesn’t mean you’re really happy about it.
You mean lemmy, the platform created and maintained by staunch marxist-leninists? That lemmy strikes you as anticapitalist and antiAmerican?
Weird.
As someone who would probably qualify as one of these anti-American Americans on Lemmy I can say this: A big factor for me is the despair I feel (having genuinely believed the myths for most of my life) as I see the facade falling away. The genuine awfulness and inhumanity of not just our government, and our economy, but also of the culture, the people themselves, is just overwhelming. These forums are one of the outlets I’ve been using for my rage. I can only speak for myself. I’m not a bot, or a Russian actor, or an edgy teen. I’m a disillusioned middle aged American.
I’ve been there with the disillusionment. It felt like everything I had heard about the US was complete bs. I was really upset with the education I had received and started learning a lot about other countries that had been villainized in American culture because I had felt lied to and wondered what the truth was. I think it is valid to do so when we realize that. I also think that criticizing our government is one of most important duties of every American. It’s one of the founding principles. In fact, whenever I am in Washington DC, I make sure to go flick off the the Capitol. I even take pictures.
However, I think it’s disingenuous and unhelpful to only criticize the US, both government and people. The US has done helpful things, regardless of supposed intention. The impact of policies and behaviors are the same. Additionally, something that is only criticized ultimately has no option but to not care about its impact on other and be solely selfish. Otherwise, I can only cease existing because there’s no option to improve and be welcomed. Personally, I think a more helpful approach to concerns with the US would be to also celebrate what it does right. This allows for it to correct itself and aim to be a more just and enjoyable country. It also allows for unity and growth with Western countries at a time when it looks the world is headed for a war between major powers. Hate the US all you want, while Russia has its positive as most countries do, it is my opinion that it is magnitudes worse of a county to live in many areas of life, from government oppression to economic hardships. On the positive side, it does seem to have an interesting history, unique problem-solving approaches, strong patriotism, valuable contributions to science, and outstanding artistic capacity.
Arguably, disillusionment is the facade used to keep people in line
Most of the anti-American sentiment I’ve seen on SM over the last 2 or 3 years has been from Americans. It sucks here unless you’re rich, racist, and/or incredibly stupid.
How insanely American to think America being criticized a lot must mean propaganda.
Lemmy.world may have the least of this since they neolib gobblers
What’s lemmy.selfhostcat.com known for?
Nice pussy.
lol, liking cute wittle putty cats I guess :)
Based on this thread, sucking off China.
We all have hobbies.
I’m American. I love where I live. There’s a lot of great people, food, experiences, and places. It’s a vast place where a lot of great, forward looking things happen.
However, the government allows billionaires to control it and prevents it from serving its people. We are fucking angry.
And nothing will change through voting for nothing candidates like Kamala or Trump
America: practices actual slavery
American: I love it here.
Christ man, there’s shit to criticise about every nation, none are worth praise imho. But America isn’t even close to being “just a little bit evil” let alone good.
My other comment was removed and I don’t even remember what I said. I just wanted to say that the negative things that a country has done in its past don’t define its people.
I don’t believe that all Chinese, Russian, or North Korean people are evil. They are victims of awful governments. For you to say that it’s not ok that I enjoy the people and culture around me because there are negatives is pessimistic and ignorant.
I’ve taught elementary in Detroit. We are Americans. We work hard. We take of each other and we love our community.
I’m sorry you don’t feel as if your community cares about you. Please know that if you aren’t where people care about you, there’s somewhere that will. I hope you find peace, friend.
We both know why your other comment was removed.
I just wanted to say America didn’t only practice slavery in the past, it practices slavery right now and you “love it there”. Like what you want. I love chocolate [don’t buy it anymore though] and when someone points out there’s a huge slave trade in it I don’t go: "Honey, the adults are speaking. We are X. We work hard. We take of each other and we love our community " I say “you’re right”. The primary teachers I know don’t treat anyone with that amount of condescention, veiled or otherwise.
It isn’t more “adult” to ignore the problems of the world. It is, by definition, more ignorant though. Your previous comment called me a child. It didn’t say anything else. Just called me a child, don’t get on your high horse now, no-one is buying it.
I’ll not “proud to be an American”. I like my peers. I like where I live. I can’t right the wrongs of the world by myself. I do my part and I am at peace with the people around me. I hope you can find that one day too.
No-one is asking you to. Are you sure you’re replying to the right person? Can you show me where I suggested you should. I gave you an example in my previous comment about a thing I used to love, and still do really, being drenched in slavery. Perhaps use that? Tilt at some other windmill.
My only statement is that a nation currently practicing slavery isn’t worthy of your love. I suppose you’d put it like:
“I hope one day you find a less abusive country that might be worthy of your love”
Removed by mod
I honestly feel like Lemmy got considerably less vitriolic toward Americans after the election.
I used to think Lemmy was too insignificant for Russian influents, but I’m not sure anymore.
as an american, i whole-heartedly support anti-american sentiment. we fucking deserve all of it. we voted in a clown shitshow of a government and of course the world should laugh
came to write something like this. feel the exact same. we don’t need to post the election results to am I the asshole because we are not the assholes.
Nearly half the electorate didn’t vote for the reactionaries. I’d also add that this regression isn’t an exclusively American phenomenon, we’re just unfortunately at the vanguard.
it wasnte even half… 88 milllion eligible voters didnt vote at all. not voting is making a decision. people that do not vote at all are complicit
Hard disagree, Republicans wouldn’t do so much voter suppression bullshit if it didn’t have any effect. People who don’t vote are almost always being oppressed in a variety of different ways.
they suppress the vote because if all eligible voters voted, they would never win another election. i stand by the fact that if you did not vote at all, you are complicit in letting democracy die at the hands of conservative extremists.
I waited in line for five hours to vote, and I don’t even live in a place that does voter suppression bs. I can understand why some people threw up their hands and went home. Then you’ve got the people who did vote but had their vote invalidated by bureaucratic nonsense. The deck is stacked against the people
As an outsider (not american and don’t live in the US) I just want to add that I’m not “anti-american”. The problem is that you guys built a “bully” reputation while at the same time we see the hardships the regular american have to go through without healthcare, education and labour laws, and nobody really cares.
And this isn’t even the first clown shitshow of a government we’ve voted in this century
of course. and dont forget the whole fucking over the globe by forcing our version of democracy everywhere. or that our biggest industry is generating human killing devices we spread across the planet under the guise of ‘defense’… or that our country was founded by genociding almost an entire continent of humans.
i find it beyond funny that we support israel because ‘they were there first’, but if you mention that maybe the american indians should rise up and take their country back you get very different responses. america is the land hypocrites.
I don’t think we’re the only land of hypocrisy out there (like, listen to Russia talk about how they’re the real protectors of human rights, or China say other countries are threatening their national security, or Mexico complain about cartel violence while letting their police do whatever they want, or Israel do so much shit I don’t know where to start), but, yeah, a lot of us are brainwashed as hell, and our government is completely full of shit whenever it’s scolding anyone else about human rights, international law, the climate, etc.
i find it beyond funny that we support israel because ‘they were there first’, but if you mention that maybe the american indians should rise up and take their country back you get very different responses.
Yep, and also the fact that there’s such a vocal anti-migrant movement here after almost all of our ancestors in immigrated here is completely absurd
Removed by mod
Yeah, actually that’s a really important point, plus between the insane amounts of essentially anonymous propaganda that’s been unleashed on us through Citizens United and all the state government voter suppression laws that were allowed by Shelby County we’ve really only been a quasi-democratic society at best for most of this. Americans aren’t uniquely terrible people compared to the citizens of any other country, we’ve just got some incredibly shitty rich people who ran the table on political power.
e; forgot to rest of my thought
