So I’m European and am aware that American culture is very different in many ways. Idk if this is just some type of thing about American culture and mentality in general that has always been there or if it is a trend that started recently in the past few years.
I don’t wanna generalize any country and know that not everyone is like this but I definitely noticed this type of pattern.
I increasingly noticed in the past years that many Americans are very hateful/cruel, are lacking empathy, become more and more aggressive and it seems like it’s becoming worse.
I’m not sure if this is maybe related to Americans needing to be “though” or something because I always hear about that the American mentality is pretty competitive and individualistic and instead of saying “we will go through this this together” they often have this mentality “it’s either me or you but it can’t be both who will win”. I mean I’m pretty sure that all these things like this biking culture, driving big “manly” pick up trucks, wrestling, football etc. are pretty prevalent in America compared to other countries and American culture generally seems very loud and direct. I think here in Europe people are way more reserved and I guess the strongest opposite to Americans are probably Japanese people. Maybe American culture is generally more “rough” where they aren’t super sensitive and don’t really care how their words come over and just speak their mind (maybe cause they value free speech so much).
But to me this seems to go to the point where many Americans seem to have this attitude and are very ignorant and arrogant and basically think they’re better than anyone else and they only care for themselves.
And it feels like it’s so extreme to the point where everyone is hating, attacking and bashing on everyone and instead of being stronger united they’re just fighting against themselves and putting each other down and they always focus on the negative.
Especially online it seems like that no matter what the topic is and independent from whether they are Democrat or Republican they’re constantly bashing on someone and baselessly calling them “weak” even though in reality they’re probably the ones who are weak and trample onto people cause they’re obviously dissatisfied with themselves and aren’t able to man-up to face the real issues. You just can’t blame everything on others and have to take responsibility for yourself!
Some stuff that I’ve seen on American news like “Fox News” just seemed crazy where the reporters personally attack and bash on people which is something that would be unthinkable in Europe.
Even though many people were saying that Americans have this “fake friendliness” I’m thinking that even that disappeared in the last few years and they’re becoming more open to show what they really think which seems to be that they “don’t give a f* about you”.
Many Americans that I encountered seem so aggressive like they always need to bash onto something in this toxic way even though they’re actually in a very good position and have a lot to be grateful for. Like in other poor countries people have real problems and are literally starving because they have no food or they have war in their country.
I’m always thinking “dude, you need to chill” cause literally no one is attacking them and they’re fully secure. But it seems like they’re always searching for a fight or something.
It seems like many of these people are so disconnected from nature and become less human and I wonder why they can’t just spend meaningful time with other people being positive and not constantly waste their time with hating or complaining about something. Because this just doesn’t work and in a society with multiple people especially in a world where everything is more connected than ever we need to hold together and have empathy for one and another. That is one of the core morals that a human needs!
It seems like many Americans generally have this “cruelness” about them cause I also heard things that many Americans are physically beating their children and even the fact that guns are popular and legal in America to the point where you can’t even safely walk alone in public during the night or safely send your kid to school and also this general mindset of America is doing everything the best and “America first”. I really don’t wanna bash on Americans at all and only want to share my experience because I just haven’t experienced this type of hate here in Europe in that extreme way and it just makes me very uncomfortable because I feel like this mood is affecting the whole world since American media and influence is prevalent everywhere.
To me it feels like this won’t end well and it feels like it’s just a matter of time until something very bad happens like the second civil war or so and the storm on the capitol might be nothing compared to that. But maybe that’s the only way they will finally learn if they’re lacking these core morals and integrity and they don’t get educated about that in school.
It also seems like they can’t handle critique and can’t admit it/stand to those things. When I once asked a similar question on Reddit the only thing I got back was bashing and personal attacks and I hope it’s not the same here, cause that is literally just proving my point. There needs to be constructive discussions.
We’ve had a couple of reports about this post, but I’m going to let it slide for the moment because the discussion seems mostly respectful. Let’s keep it polite though please.
Here’s my attempt to explain this in as few words as possible:
American Exceptionalism is imploding.
…
Longer explanation:
From a cultural narrative/myth standpoint, a whole lot of us were trained and taught to believe that ‘America is the best country in the world’.
This was the source of our national optimism, our national belief that we can achieve anything we decide to do, that we are the force for good in the world, that we can be the shining city on the hill, the role model, the ‘good guy’.
You can interpret that in different ways, its flexible enough to hold true within the Overton Window of ‘acceptable’ political viewpoints.
But the problem is that it has become increasingly obvious that this myth is a complete lie nowadays, that it was built on a false, sanitized version of history, which itself was perpetuated by our education system and popular media until very recently.
So at a group scale… this is the national myth, and its been obliterated, so now… we as a collective have just splintered into highly polarized factions.
At an individual scale, American Exceptionalism means that you as an individual live in ‘The land of opportunity’, ie, we live in a meritocratic society that rewards good character, good intentions, diligent work and study with a life of wealth amd freedom superior to what can be achieved elsewhere.
But, as our economic systems have become consolidated, our political systems have eroded to naked oligarchy, its now clear to the individual that… what was promised to be obtainable to any one, now basically isn’t: class/income mobility is so bad now that we basically actually live in a classed society of hereditary nobility, determined by wealth. They just don’t have titles like Duke or Baron, they have titles of Executive Director, CEO and Member of the Board.
… Our egos cannot accept this, and internalize it as a personal failure, and express it outwardly as everyone else’s failure.
Deep down, we were supposed to be able to be successful if we put in the work.
A whole lot of people did put in the work, and most of them got fucked.
So we are angry about that, and most of us carry that chip on our shoulder, that we’ve all been scammed.
But we don’t agree on why we’ve been scammed, how we’ve been scammed, or how this should be addressed.
…
I concur with you that this will not end well.
We are a fracturing, dying empire, a third world country with a gucci belt, and we elected a racist rapist facist conman.
And we have more privately owned guns than people.
…
I agree with many other posters that social media prioritizing ostentacious wealth and bravado / dominance displays certainly does not help, but I’m going with the ‘American Exceptionalism Imploding’ explanation to attempt to explain how Americans in particular, compared to other nations, are becoming so vicious and hostile so rapidly.
…
Sure would have been nice if people realized 20 years ago that Carlin was not joking whatsoever when he said:
“They call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.”
Bowie was right to be afraid of Americans.
Spot on. This is something I would have written myself. Word for word.
Crazy - am I the only one who was always taught the places we let our goals down? Who was taught all the idealized mythology around the US are goals? You don’t get happiness, you get the right to pursue it. You don’t get success, you get the opportunity to try. You don’t get equality, you get to fight for equality.
My ancestors migrated to the US over a century ago and were very white, so we do have it easier than some. But the point is to recognize that. To fight to make the American dream a possibility for everyone
My ancestor strongly believed in a good education, such that he insisted all his kids goto college even though they became farmers. Now I’m in a position that I can help my kids goto college, but the American dream includes that all kids have the opportunity. Just like my ancestor arriving penniless illiterate, not speaking the language and with no family - those people too should have the opportunity for a good education. Being able to afford a good education is not a lie, it’s a goal, and it’s in all our best interest as a society to make it so
If “make America great again” had any truth in it, it would be to believe in our goals again, and work toward achieving them. Relight that dim, flickering torch and stoke those embers to become the America we’ve told ourselves we can be
The media everywhere knows that showing people who are on an extreme gets more views. So that is what you will see from outside. As for the people you have meet. The chill people don’t travel as much.
The problem is confirmation bias. Americans are actually becoming more left-leaning and accepting. Younger generations are rejecting the hateful & destructive legacy of the US, and spreading this ideology to each other, which is exactly why the government is trying to ban TikTok. Just look at military recruitment numbers. Look at how well leftism and anti-imperialism performs in polling among people younger than boomers and Gen X.
But as communist theorists predicted would happen, as the population moves left the capitalists in power move further right and embrace fascism to entrench their power.
Leftism is spreading faster than fascism, but fascists do not threaten capital, so they’re not censored. Thus you see far higher representation of far-right fascism in the news and in positions of power, because that’s all they want you to see and the only people they allow into power. It tricks you into believing these ideals are gaining in popularity, when in reality it’s over representation of fascism by systems that don’t really oppose it.
For example, the majority of Americans support ending US funding of the genocide in Gaza. But if all you see is what’s allowed on the news and what the people in power support, you’d believe there’s overwhelming support in the US for the genocide. In reality, they’re increasing the police budgets to violently suppress criticism of the empire.
People think they have to beat other people at some imagined game to be happy, and forget the game was ever imagined in the first place. It’s a delusion.
Yeah I see that and it’s so sad cause we could actually be so happy if we would work together and be kind to each other.
Eyeballs on content equals money. Rage equals more eyeballs, thusly more money.
In my view, Social media is a big factor in creating echo chambers and disinformation.
To be fair, I think this is the official, mainstream view too.
this, the “News” or, how people get information about their world, has been broken for 40 years or so
addictive, hate fueled, lie filled, drama news is the norm. murdoch must die
guns are popular and legal in America to the point where you can’t even safely walk alone in public during the night or safely send your kid to school
Absolutely untrue, hardly ever seen a gun in public that wasn’t on a cop. Born and bred in Oklahoma (extremely conservative), worked in South Chicago (gangbangers everywhere) and now live in NW Florida (conservative again). And I’ve been in a lot of scary places and ran with seriously sketchy people when young.
About half of guns deaths are suicides. Most of the rest are gangs doing gang shit or interpersonal violence. Most murder victims knew their killer, anything but random.
Year in, year out, CDC stats have vehicular death at the same numbers as gun deaths. Stay away from shitty people and places, don’t kill yourself, you’re far more likely to die in or by a car. That scares the crap out of me, yet no one talks about it because it’s normal.
Interesting anecdotes. As a pretentious European (who has visited plenty of America), Oklahoma is my idea of Peak Awful USA. Like a worse version of Texas with even more capital punishment. But of course that’s just generalization and you sound cool!
Suicides should definitely be taken out of the baseline gun statistics IMO.
Mississippi is far worse than Oklahoma. Love those folks, but it’s bad.
Not sure we should remove suicide stats. Makes the numbers less “panicky”, but an easy point-and-click death is something we have to talk about.
It should be counted but separately
Removed by mod
Random death vs. fear of random death was the point. One of these things is not like the other.
As an American, I have despaired every day since the election about where we are headed. My hope is that, as in past times when we have lost our collective minds, we will find a way to self correct. Know that nearly half of all voters did NOT want this direction and many will be mounting a vigorous fight against fascism. Its going ti be ugly, though. I also despair for Europe who are about to see their fascists voices amplified to a very high volume.
So you’re stereotyping a country of 341 million people based off of your personal interactions with a few of them on the internet?
We’re not a monoculture, bud. How would you feel if I asked “Why does it seem like Europeans have become so judgmental and preachy in the past years?”
Bud
Typical answer. I wasn’t trying to stereotype but just share my experience. I haven’t experienced this type of hate here in Europe and it was a noticeable difference for me. But of course you are very welcomed to share your bad experiences with Europeans with us as long as it’s constructive.
Don’t be an asshole, lmao. You complain about Americans being bloodthirsty fucks and then you turn around and act like the typical “snooty, judgmental and condescending euro-prick” stereotype we have here in the states.
The reason why I’m engaging with you is because you’re not wrong, America has become extremely angry and bloodthirsty. However, that doesn’t give you an excuse to be condescending about it.
Don’t be an asshole, lmao. You complain about Americans being bloodthirsty fucks and then you turn around and act like the typical “snooty, judgmental and condescending euro-prick” stereotype we have here in the states.
I’m glad you were posting this cause that’s a great example of exactly what I meant. It’s just insulting, hateful and fully unconstructive. It was just a matter of time till one of these posts came. First calling me stereotyping and now an asshole and “snooty, judgmental and condescending euro-prick" lol
You should try owning it! This is my solution. For “condescending and pretentious”, I read “intelligent and sophisticated”.
On the contrary, the above comment gives actionable advice and explains why you’re wrong without using insulting language. This is perhaps the most constructive feedback you’ll get
Actionable, yes, but it’s lacking specificity. What phrases or concepts in the post were condescending?(Not saying I agree or disagree, but I’m a fan of making feedback more effective.) Ideal feedback should also have examples of an improved version of the behavior, if possible.
Typical answer.
In what world is telling someone “typical answer” not a cunt response in a post about being civil
With that I meant that I wasn’t surprised that someone will be offended and condemn me as stereotyping even though I stated multiple times that that’s not my intention. I’m saying if anyone has critique towards Europe I’m very open and interested in it as well. But like I mentioned, if any it’s just proving what I said
Let’s not beat around the bush we’re both adults here. Using charged language is fun but you gotta own it when you do it.
Open mind is more of an aspirational handle I guess
18 days accounts. Only two posts are this. Looks like a troll
Yeah I’m going to shut up now because you may be right. Appreciate it.
See it is as if you want to argue over any price. You’re literally looking to fight with someone but I’m not. All I’m thinking is: why? It’s very immature
My bad if you’re actually trying to better wrap your mind around this. I think my frustration stems from the feeling that Europe doesn’t seem to realize they have much of the same problems as the US, just being 10 years behind, imo. We definitely are on more of a tinder box as a result of there being so many firearms in the country, but right wing populism is growing across the Atlantic just like it is thriving here. Im not going to try to invalidate what your friend has experienced since coming here.
I feel like there’s a bigger trend towards empty populism worldwide and authoritarianism that people aren’t realizing. It makes me feel like posts like this feed into a crab in a bucket kind of situation. It doesn’t help I’m from New Jersey and my state regularly gets mocked domestically so I’m already primed to be on edge. I wouldn’t have posted my last message, in hindsight.
I think I understand now, Europe is a utopia the US is filled with hateful bikers and people driving big trucks?
Responding aggressively to a post asking why it appears that American culture has become more aggressive and hateful is not helping as much as you think.
Aggressively? How is “typical answer” aggressive? I think calling me stereotyping, an asshole and “snooty, judgmental and condescending euro-prick” is aggressive.
I’m not American but I think the current wave of ugliness is because Obama was elected, and conservative people who are racist in their hearts didn’t like that an “uppity Negro” was in the most powerful position in the world for eight years, and they couldn’t come up with anyone palatable to beat him. So instead they found who is probably the most obnoxious person in the world to put at the helm of their party, and because conservatives have oppositional defiant disorder, and get off on someone being like they are openly, they flocked to him loudly, where more traditional conservative politicians knocked in vain, and it was just a chance for them to really be themselves. I think they’ve always been this way, but just not as loud about it.
Also Zuckface fuckface fed them a steady diet of weaponized disinformation about anyone who wasn’t white or Republican so it made them even uglier and stupider. But they’ll probably all die of preventable disease as time goes on, so that’s something to look forward to.
This “they’re just racists” theory is now comprehensively debunked. White-trash Indiana voted for Obama, and now brown people of all types are rushing into Trump’s arms.
If America’s progressives stick to this disastrous race essentialism, the Democrats are going to lose and lose and lose again. You need to snap out of it for the sake of the rest of the world.
It’s not about race, it’s about class.
Democrats aren’t progressive. That’s a big part of the problem actually.
Well I’m not American so it only matters to me in that the orange rapist wants to annex my country, but I did note that people had lynching effigies of Obama when he was elected hanging in their yards and stuff, so. I’m fine with being wrong if you say this is so, it’s just my observation.
The dumbest most faithful people in the country have had their religious institutions influenced by Conservative con men since the 70s in an attempt to create a loyal voter base that doesn’t care about their politicians causing the worst wealth inequality ever.
Basically the dumbest people on earth have been fooled into attacking straw men instead of being capable of forming associations of cause and effect in reality.
America doesn’t often follow international law, because they often get away with acting poorly.
When a country has the largest economy and the strongest military and does not have neighbours that are equal to it in power they tend swing their weight around.
Same thing can be seen with Russia, China and India.
I only read the first half of your post because it was kind of meandering, but most of what you’re seeing is just online. People have always been assholes online, ever since the early days of the internet. There are a lot of very intentional, very engineered agendas out there to drive people apart, and set them at each other’s throats. This is hyper effective on the internet. It doesn’t usually carry over into the real world. Most Americans I know, meet, or see in real life are still friendly, caring, and generous. Just go read about European impressions of Americans after returning from vacation to the USA and you’ll see that same sentiment echoed from people on your side of the pond. There are certainly people who have taken their online persona offline into their real world identities, but they’re the exception, not the rule.
TLDR: the internet is not the real world and you’ll see the worst of people online, combined with a fair bit of propaganda and astroturfing.
Exactly this. If you are starting to feel like the world, or a particular people, are excessively negative and hateful, you’re almost certainly spending too much time online.
I think that you hit it pretty close to being in point. The Americans I know are same as you nice good people, but that entire country is based on “I got mine so screw you” and they honestly believe that the American dream is still achievable, but it isn’t, they think that they are closer to a millionaire or billionaire than their own neighbors. Trickle down economics was a lie and the fact that shareholders are the end all and be all of industry.
Who can you screw over to get ahead, most of the time it is the owners (investors) screwing over the workers.
They have poor education systems (some better than others for a price) so people are unable to think critically about what they’re being told, then allow business to essentially buy the government this is the result.
The entire system globally is busted. I have no idea how to get it back in shape where people are important to having a healthy society.
I’m rambling so I’ll stop (not even sure what I wrote makes sense). But a picture is worth 100 words (used to be a 1000 but inflation ☹️)
It’s not an American thing it’s a human thing.
The more time spent angry the more active and larger the amygdala gets.
So now when in a situation the amygdala is calling the shoots, and it’s either calling for blood or for you to run.
It’s how we evolved, if we’re surrounded by anger, fear, and confrontation we switch over to a mode that can handle that.
The current problem is fearmongering and billionaire ran media that keeps telling everyone to panic, so they do.
People get in this state from the media, interact with others and it spreads. Society as we know it is incredibly recent on an evolutionary scale, so it is often shocking how fast we can slide back to people who are thinking on a short timeline where 20 years is “forever ago”.
That’s not even getting into wealth inequality and how resource scarceness while young can fuck someone up for life.
I can corroborate, anecdotally, the behavioral side of this.
When I have conversations with notoriously angry people and can maintain my chill and treat them with dignity (despite whatever behavior they’re exhibiting), they usually chill out. The more of angry person they are takes more effort, but patience, calm, and respect diffuse things very effectively. The patience is really hard, but it has worked for me.
The problem, which is relevant to the physical changes you described, is that the effect is only temporary in isolation. I have found the repeating this over time with a person does cause their baseline anger level to reduce over time, but it’s a fuckton of work and difficult to scale due to the time commitment. It also doesn’t scale via media because this kind of behavior doesn’t draw attention. It’s an unfortunate bug in our psychology
social media
Exactly.
It’s not so much that Americans are like this in general, there are always people like this and people who are opposite from this in any county, America included. But because of social media, the voice of specifically this kind of people get magnified and appeared much louder than the voice of people not like this.
Many American ran social media (those offered by Meta especially) are specifically designed this way because they operate in such a way where engagement generate ad revenues, and conflicts, destructive and otherwise rage inducing content are the most effective ways for generating engagement on the internet in general. Unfortunately over a course of lack of regulatory actions they have perfected a balance between as much rage inducing content as possible and not too much destructiveness to a point where they get into legal troubles.
