And what are we pretending to be?
“Humans”.
And what are Humans?
“Not animals, that’s for sure!”
Speak for yourself. I’m a filthy mo fo
Jonathan Swift had the same showerthought.
Overall, he preferred horses.
And who wouldn’t? They are neat.
They are neat, but I trust no animal less than I trust a horse.
You’ll be sorry when one day that plastic bag that wasn’t in the path yesterday jumps up and kills you!
We still have this notion and hubris that we’re above animals, and animals are below us who are alright being stepped on and abused. I noticed that in a lot of cultures, their insults and profanities is being compared to an animal (in Europe, the profanities seem to be generally sexual).
Also, for the religious, admitting we’re animals is definitely an insult and denial of biblical teachings that god created humans. When Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution first became a mainstream sensation, some cartoonists drew him as a monkey. I debated with a religious before who believes in conspiracy theories. After pointing out about evolution, I was called a monkey. I wasn’t even insulted though because, yes, that is basically what I’m trying to say. But technically I’m not a monkey, I’m an ape. Humans are apes. The monkeys are our cousins. Religious folks don’t like to admit we’re animals because it contradicts their beliefs.
To be fair, if I took my cats values and morals there would be a bloodbath.
Religious folks don’t like to admit we’re animals because it contradicts their beliefs.
Their religion is based on the idea that we’re special somehow. It allows their followers to feel better than the ‘lesser’ animals, and the ‘lesser’ races/cultures. They teach that we’re the chosen ones with our tools, and language, and emotion, and thoughts.
The fact that we’re all equal, and that other animals have all of those qualities is a threat to their power.
We may be animals but we sure arent animals.
In what way we aren’t animals? (And please, don’t mention technology or civilization, that’s an easy one)
Being concious of and being able to critically look at what we are and how we act would be one answer. Sort of like what you did when you made this post :P
The cat outside isnt arguing about ethics, doesnt think about the consequences and decide not to act on some base desire, etc
Good point. I’ll give you that.
I don’t know that taxonomy is our biggest problem…
There’s psychology that goes along with it, it’s not just scientific classification. It’s also about ego.
The view that we’re better than the rest of the life on this planet is likely one of the drivers behind climate change. It’s used to justify the destruction of entire habitats. Habitats other beings feel is their home.
A lot of folks may know that they’re animals, in a scientific sense. But they don’t feel it in their bones or really empathize. Folks are often raised to think of animals as potential food, after all. So, it runs a bit deeper than taxonomy. And is more like a cultural habit of feeling better than, because we often eat animals and don’t have many predators to worry about other than each other.
That view isn’t necessarily taxonomically based: We could still be like, “Ok, we’re apes, but we’re the best apes!”
Furthermore, not everyone holds that view.
The real issue is greed.
No. The biggest problem with climate change is that people are profiting off it. That’s it. Nobody needs to pretend that they’re better in order to care only for themselves.
The people following Abrahamic religions do anyway, their magic books tell them so.
Agree we are animals…but not sure that is the biggest problem…
Like, yeah of course there’s a lot other things. Maybe I should should have say “one of the biggest”
The only animal capbable of destroying the earth and creating stock exchanges. And vaping. And sending a message to the universe.
Plus the 1969 Chevrolet Corvette.
Ha! Suck it, trilobites!
Only second to cyanobacteria.
We are above animals though, humans were able to conquer the earth, light it up, send its people beyond it, create complex language and more whilst animals can’t really do any of that
You’re not wrong but I think you’re missing the point. The point is that a lot of people believe that everything that makes Earth has an intrinsic value in and of itself. That doesn’t mean that us as humans as part of the earth can’t capture some of that value and put it to our own efforts. It does mean that we should have respect for the living and non-living things that make up our planet and can’t take everything. Just because Dolphin’s didn’t invent the light bulb doesn’t mean they don’t have their own value to themselves. It just means that we don’t understand it.
Oh yeah I didn’t mean it as in because we are superior we should step over all of the living beings on the earth. They might not have the same mental capability as us but I do agree that they can feel and do serve a purpose on the earth alongsides us.
Can you do any of that?
That’s a stupid question. As a collective, humanity is able to accomplish all these things.
I could with enough motivation yeah
So no, you can’t. Guess you aren’t human, just an animal huh?
How can I not though? Every human is capable of doing these things. What makes us better than animals is that we can cooperate on much grander things that extend beyond death
If you’re belief is that any human is capable of these things but not yet educated, how do you humans are the only ones that can be taught?
Because humans have studied the brains of other creatures and from what we know, it is unlikely that any other species can do so.
Care to cite these studies claiming human brains are intrinsically superior? The primary difference among mammals is the size and fold density. Koalas are famously smooth-brained, but other animals have greater memory and reasoning capability with larger, deeper folds. What they lack is language. Humans developed superior vocal cords, allowing great variation in speech patterns that jump started written language and, by effect, written history. Have you not seen the videos and reports of the incredible communication and logical capabilities of other animals such as dogs learning 300 commands and using 40+ speech buttons? Have you not heard the tales of octopus escape artists defeating locks?
Survival is what your parents and local community can teach you. But innovation and invention? You are the product of thousands of years of written language passing on more information than any single person could remember and more then any single community could develop on its own. The biggest brain in the world would sound like an idiot without language. We are not above animals, we just talk like we are.
The problem is saying that what we’re capable of makes us “better” and “superior.” Says who? That “superiority” will probably also be what kills us off.
In my opinion, our mental capability does make us better as we are able to adapt and innovate much faster than regular animals would, which can get us out of awful situations.
Yes, we are very adaptable, which has allowed us to spread over pretty much the whole world and shape it to our needs. However, we also are destroying the ecosystem that keeps us alive, which is getting us into an awful situation entirely of our own making.
I don’t believe you are capable of any of the examples you mentioned.
Why?
Because you haven’t demonstrated any of it.
animals literally did that. we are those animals.
But only one specific species of animals did that. Most animals are incapable of doing that, which is why we are superior
Hey bud? Octupi are developed enough to maintain neighborhood communities, and they managed to avoid inventing money, taxes, and HoAs. They’re also not actively destroying the planet.
Let’s not pretend like anything we are doing has an inherent good to it. Animal societies looking different to ours doesn’t make them inferior to ours. What humanity has wrought is nothing to brag about.
You and me baby ain’t nothing but mammals so let’s do it like they do on the discovery channel
We don’t pretend we are not animals. We pretend we are the ONLY animals, and all others are merely objects.
The Apex Animal, the Uber-animal, the Sigma Animal 🗿
Uhhh I would strongly disagree with that being a mainstream belief
Do you consume non-human animals? Then you are probably psychologically dependent on ignoring all the ways they are the same as we are. You probably believe there are lots of things that distinguish us, as long as you never think too closely about it, that make it morally permissible or even morally encouraged to exploit their bodies and pretend that they don’t have a mind fundamentally like yours.
Being an animal means having animus. But we act as though we are the only creature having it; the only with interests, with thoughts and feelings, with desires and goals, that uses reason, that struggles with everything within us to live.
Do you actually have anything to say beyond, “I disagree”, or are you (like most carnists) just psychologically required to obstruct your own inconvenient thoughts whenever they arise?
If aliens were to visit Earth, human vs. not-humans (aka sentient vs. not) would be the single biggest thing to consider. Far more so than male vs. female, plants vs. animals, even alive vs. nonliving (rocks), humans can literally send nukes in their direction while they hang in outer space, while literally nothing else can. We light up the night sky… on purpose and could stop it in a moment if we wanted.
We’re kinda a big deal.
Although now computers (e.g. Skynet) could do it too, so it’s humans and those highly specialized rocks together on one side, vs. literally everything else on the other.
So humans are not “just” animals, like computers are not “just” rocks.
So, what we are then?
(And, at the risk of sounding harsh, what’s with the constant duology? Why the mania of dividing everything into “this” and “that”?)
We are humans. We are animals. And we are more than that. Perhaps we are also lesser than that at the same time?
The duality was how the idea was presented to me - this is not my OC, or perhaps the words are but the concept I first heard told by an atheist apologeticist (if that’s a thing) Daniel Dennett speaking out against Intelligent Design (which at the time was still a thing that people bothered arguing against). I believe he was relating it to a binary classification scheme such as machine learning approaches are often built to follow. Anyway it’s just a vehicle for the conveyance of the idea - obviously nuances exist irl, yet there is some value in keeping things simple too, especially at first.
Hmm, ok. Now I can see the point you where making. Thanks for elaborate.
Yeah I was thinking about this the other day after watching some Twilight Zone or something. It’s interesting that a lot of our fantasy/sci-fi is about how pathetic humanity might be compared to alien beings, especially since in reality we actualy play the role of the highly superior beings.
That style does seem to predominate, especially in video form, but there are others where humans compete more on if not quite fully equal than at least more equal terms. Babylon Five springs to mind there.
Also more outside but some still fully inside of “scify” the more “fantasy” elements may posit the existence of alternative universes that we travel to & from not by traversing physical space in between but through portals, accessible here on earth. Like Stargate.
So, those others are out there, but yeah it definitely meshes less well with what we see and know now about what might be in space.
I am? [farts]
Would an animal fart like that?
You must be high. That made no sense.
I was already expecting this type of comment to appear at any time lol. Ok pal 👍
Not sure if high, but OP is definitivelly BASED!
