• slickgoat@lemmy.world
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    2 hours ago

    Damn, now you got me defending fucking Musk on this issue.

    Freedom of speech is also the freedom to lie. However, that just means the state can’t arrest you for your speech. Nobody owes you a platform for your free speech.

    That said, Elon Musk is a turd sandwich.

    • FelixCress@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      Freedom of speech is also the freedom to lie

      Again, it is not. Freedom of speech is a freedom to receive information and exchange ideas. Not a freedom to lie.

      Are you a USian by any chance? They quite often misunderstand what freedom of speech is.

      • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        Again, it is.

        Show me the legalisation where it is illegal to lie. How is it enforced? Who enforces it? Who arbatrates it?

        Freedom of speech is a moral right, and nothing more. If you start arresting people on perceived lies, that is a very dangerous slippery slope. I hope that the Donald doesn’t start arresting people who he believes is lying. Where will THAT stop?

        And, no, I’m not Asian, tho I don’t understand your asking.

        • FelixCress@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          Again, it is.

          Again, it isn’t. Read the fucking definition and educated yourself.

          ‘Freedom of speech is the right to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, by any means.’

          https://www.amnesty.org.uk/free-speech-freedom-expression-human-right

          https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

          And, no, I’m not Asian,

          Who was talking about Asians? I asked if you are a USian. Someone from USA. People from USA often misunderstand what freedom of speech is.

          • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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            2 hours ago

            sigh

            Again it is.

            Neither of those links suggested that it was illegal to lie. Why not? Because it is fucking impossible to tie that rule into a working possibility. Go read your own links yourself, because it is obvious that you haven’t.

            It talks about limitations on hate speech, etc, but you can lie without hate speech.

            Freedom of speech is an ideal, and is tied to state control of speech. There are all kinds of limitations, including public safety and defamation, etc. But if I called you a Martian, obviously that is a lie. What happens? Does the free speech police lock me up?

            I’m not interested in personal attacks, by the way.

            • FelixCress@lemmy.world
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              2 hours ago

              Again it is not.

              Neither of those links suggested that it was illegal to lie

              Which part of “the right to seek, receive and impart information and ideas” caused you trouble?

              So, are you a USian?

              • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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                1 hour ago

                I’m not sure if you are trolling or not, because any plain English reading is obvious

                Your own quote, as set out below…

                “the right to seek, receive and impart information and ideas”

                That also applies to incorrect information ideas… or… lies. Or the truth… Or fantasy… Or anything in between…

                It doesn’t specify truth or otherwise. You are free to assume anything you care to - but it’s not in the actual text.

                As to your question, I have no clue about your insistence on me being whatever the thing is you keep repeating.

                • FelixCress@lemmy.world
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                  16 minutes ago

                  “the right to seek, receive and impart information and ideas”

                  That also applies to incorrect information ideas… or… lies.

                  Are you a little bit slow?

                  Which part of “information” or “ideas” cover lies?

                  So, are you a USian as misunderstanding of free speach is common there?

      • XIIIesq@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        Yes, but in this case we are not talking about a lie, we are talking about an opinion which you yourself consider a lie.

        It comes back to objective truth Vs opinion which I have already replied to you about.

        Regardless of this, there are cases where lying is protected by the first amendment.

        https://www.freedomforum.org/is-lying-protected-first-amendment/

        The example of where lying is not protected in the case to which we are referring would be:

        Be a provable assertion of fact (not an opinion)

        • FelixCress@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          Yes, but in this case we are not talking about a lie, we are talking about an opinion which you yourself consider a lie.

          You are going around in circles. I already told it it is fair enough - if he genuinely believed Muskler was not performing a nazi salute, it just makes him deluded. I however consider it unlikely, and if it indeed is not the case, that means he was lying.

          Furthermore, Muskler himself never denied him making a nazi salute, making people denying it even more likely to lie rather than simply being mistaken.

    • _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      12 minutes ago

      No, freedom of speech doesn’t protect you against false statements. There’s literally a ton of other laws that penalize that, depending on the context. Purgery, slander, libel, breach of contract, just to name a few.

    • XIIIesq@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      That’s true and I appreciate that different opinions are often unwelcome, I’d still rather that than end up in an extremely boring echo chamber where the “conversation” is not much more than a circle jerk.