In a TrekCulture interview a week ago, Rob Kazinsky, who plays Zeph in Section 31, talked about his reaction to the S13 movie.
He revealed one interesting point from behind the scenes about why the movie was made:
When I got this job, I was like, “Ugh, Section 31 movie, why are they doing a Section 31 movie? It’s gonna be hated from the get-go. No ones gonna want to watch a Section 31 movie. We’re doing a TV-budget movie. This isn’t going to be what people want…” And I spoke to Alex [Kurtzman] and I spoke to Olatunde [Osunsanmi] and they explained to me that Star Trek is dying. And I don’t know if people know that. You know, I was talking about Star Trek at my gym where I fight. You know, I’m a boxer where I fight with a lot of kids - you know, I don’t fight them but train them - none of them knew what Star Trek was. Could you imagine that?
He went on to say that Star Trek had never had a base as big as Harry Potter or Star Wars but the small fanbase was passionate. He says that fanbase is aging and “we are going to lose Star Trek if we don’t bring in new fans, new eyes and new ways of getting people to love the things that we love.”
I think that’s a valid point but Section 31 is not the answer. It’s not particularly interesting for kids (I think) or for adults, whether or not they’re Trek fans already. And for fans, this type of storytelling sacrifices the optimistic ethos (though not immune from criticism along the lines of DS9) that’s at the heart of the Federation and the franchise. And I’m not even arguing this from a canon or gatekeeping point of view. It’s not utlilizing Star Trek’s niche and unique selling point in the market. Why should kids watch Star Trek instead of Captain America, Suicide Squad, or any MCU movie?
Here comes the question: If you’re in Alex Kurtzman’s position, how are you going to sell the franchise to a new, young audience? How are you going to convince kids who spend their time playing Roblox and watching Mr. Beast that Star Trek is a good show to watch?
Give them Andor instead of Ahsoka; they need to make more content that speaks to the universal human condition and less about the cool worlds and characters they’ve got. The people want Squid Game and Severance, not another cinematic universe.
A lot of writers seem to have forgotten that scifi uses aliens and new worlds to talk about humans. They just think that scifi uses aliens and new worlds.
We just need more star trek memes to take over and we’ll save star trek
This is what brought the prequels back from the dead.
What is the age range they are classifying as young? Are they talking like teenagers or mid-20s to 30s? The thing with Star Trek that I think attributes to the non-fans not watching would be the stylization. Going back to the comparison of MCU, HP, and Star Wars: they all have something unique (be it the directing, photography, acting, writing, music, special effects, etc.) that if you pay attention for a significant period will find. Star Trek is no different. When you watch a MCU movie or TV show you probably see the sleek costumes and fast paced fight choreography. With HP, it was probably all the special effects, makeup and set design. For Star Wars it might be the writing, special effects and music.
I’m being non-specific here of course. Star Trek like I said is no different. There are visual and non-visual language being utilized that we find enjoyment in. For anyone not currently into these properties, it could be difficult to enjoy. Especially if you haven’t been someone who watched these properties from a young age or from the early years. For example, if you had someone exposed to only the Kelvin Timeline try to watch TOS or TNG with no context for how it relates, a disconnect might form. Visually those series are not as sleek or modernized as those movies.
As for the comparison to video games… that is simply a different medium. What appeals to one person to the next will be hard to gage. That doesn’t preclude the likes of Fortnite players from enjoying Trek, but culturally that kind of entertainment is very different from what a kid who grow up with TNG was exposed to.
I’m struggling to find it now, but I read a Jonathan Frakes interview last year (I think) where he expressed a similar sentiment.
Basically, he said that the fans that he sees at conventions are getting noticably older, and there aren’t as many younger people joining the fold.
He would be a better judge of that observation. However I was at STLV last year and there was a sizable number of younger fans (especially those who are teenage). Maybe not a lot.
Sure, I don’t think anything is absolute. But I think there’s a general impression that as the older fans literally die off, there aren’t enough younger ones to replace them, let alone expand the popularity of the franchise.
I think PRO is a step in the right direction.
Agreed, though it seems unlikely that we’re going to get any more of it, sadly.
I think the current approach is the correct one, even if it produces a few misses here and there.
A variety of tonally distinct projects, aimed at different demographics, telling stories.
I’m inclined to agree, and the series from the past decade have definitely attracted a younger audience, though I’m guessing probably not to the degree the producers were hoping and also without holding onto as many of the olds as they were hoping.
I also think the latter half of the 20th century was a unique time where families were sitting down to watch family-friendly (it’s true don’t deny it) TV like Star Trek together.
Sorry, I don’t care what Kurtzman says about this (or an actor that is obliged to defend a project he was in) when it’s justifying putting out schlock for mind share. If that’s the best we can do, let it die - it doesn’t make anything that exists any worse.
Trek needs a good show that stands alone and isn’t aimed at us but a fresh audience. That means no cameos, limited references, not animated (that is a stigma as much as I love LD), and actually taking the time to get people invested.
Basically, they needed Discovery to not be garbage. I know non-Trekkies that were actually excited for a new sci-fi romp and got turned off almost immediately by the nonsense writing. Not the cast, or stupid out of universe concerns about being “woke” or some shit, just plain out “this makes no sense and isn’t fun to watch” and it was hard to disagree.
Everything since then has lived in Discovery’s shadow in terms of new audience and has mostly dealt with that by being aimed at fans of 90s Trek and nobody else. Prodigy may be an exception here, but that suffers from being oriented at kids.
I agree in some senses with the stand-alone part, but not necessarily the animated part. I feel like it would just need to be marketed right. Executives are convinced for the most part that animation is either only for kids or for irreverent adult comedies, when it really should be viewed as a general medium.
I think Infinity Train is the best evidence of my point (look it up if you don’t know); it really transcends the typical bounds assigned to animation. Book 3 especially is truly just a great fantasy/sci-fi drama. However, it was basically killed by executives who wanted a tax write-off and couldn’t see its potential outside a “kids show”. Now some of the series is purchasable on various online storefronts, but the only legal way to watch all of Book 3 is to pirate it.
If executives and people alike would liberate themselves from the stigma of animation, I feel like you could pull off high-quality, TNG-length seasons that allow less rushed charater development for a reasonable budget compared to an expensive live action streaming show. In some ways, Prodigy was an example of this - I felt like I got more time with the characters than almost any other modern Trek (granted SNW is still going on).
I’ve never met a person where I mentioned Star Trek and they went, “Ew, Discovery. I’m never watching any Star Trek ever again”; I think Discovery had its flaws (and strengths), but it made little impact on franchise popularity.
Usually (which you touch on), it’s more like they’re just bamboozled by the cannon. Like, I was watching DS9 once, and my roommate asked if it was the original, which then brought a long and complicated explanation from me. I think you’re right that it’d be very nice to have a Star Trek show that one could show to people where when old lore is brought in, it’s delivered in such a way that people can pick it up as they go.
Is SNW even still a thing? We still have no date for S3 for nearly 2 years now.
They’ve said it’s coming in early this year - there’s literally a clip of it out: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=llvMv5-ydyQ&t=150s&pp=2AGWAZACAQ%3D%3D. It definitely looks near done.
Also, season 4 seems to already be in pre-production.
Nice
Yes? It’s been renewed, and should premiere this year.
Season 4 has been confirmed as well. It’s true that there was a longer gap between seasons 2 and 3, but that’s when the Hollywood strikes fell, so it’s not surprising.
Ultimately, Star Trek isn’t going to succeed as a giant billion dollar franchise like Marvel or Star Wars and trying to turn it into one is likely to kill it. What it can be is an ongoing series of shows which are financially and creatively successful. However, it needs is a creative refresh. Too often Star Trek and other tv/movie sci fi is just remixing decades old science fiction concepts.
If I was running Star Trek, I would recruit a collection of great science fiction writers and/or buy a bunch of original science fiction stories to bring in ideas people haven’t seen multiple times. Set the show in a new region with some separation to explain why we aren’t seeing Klingons and Romulans and all the rest and tell some great science fiction stories. Ideas will drive buzz which will bring in new viewers.
They really need to find ways to get Star Trek to an audience beyond Paramount+
Hell, why not put the new shows on normal TV a couple of years after they air online? I know fewer people watch traditional TV these days, but it’s still a way to get the show out to a more general audience
Stop trying to be ‘cool’ (or whatever you think is cool). Star Trek was never cool. Just do Star Trek and the right people will find it.
My personal experience is that one should be ready to watch star trek.
When I was 20 I simply wasn’t ready and didn’t try watching any of it despite a friend insisting it was worth it.
Two years ago, instead, I was so ready that I could enjoy TOS too
I’m still not at discovery, so I need to see the nuTrek to say more. But I really just think you can’t advertise trek too much.
When TOS aired the first time in my country, I was 9-10 years old. I found it mind-blowingly good compared to other shows at the time. I had learned to read when I was 4 and I read a LOT. And not just books for children, I also read classics and nonfiction natural science as much as I could.
I was a strange kid, but all my reading had made me ready to understand the social commentaries in TOS and the fictional scenarios really opened the concepts up for me. I often went to the library to research stuff that was explored in the latest episode to make sure I had understood everything.
My son is 13 now, we started to watch the TOS DVD-set together and he loves it. Although he is older than I was, he is not an avid reader like me. He needs many of the concepts explained and subtle guidance to understand the underlying larger themes, but he has shown advancement and after every episode we have a small discussion. I love teaching him this way.
We just finished season 1 and my son noted: “Athough this show is ancient, this stuff is still relevant and happening even today, isn’t it?”
Exactly, you need a specific setup to enjoy it, and you need to give it focus!
I don’t think that making content specifically to be liked by people who wouldn’t enjoy the typical style is a good concept… It can be explored sure, but they also need to make sure to make new trak-like content too
But again I really need to see discovery and snw to see how things are going right now. I also don’t want to judge the s31 movie before watching it
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I think the sensibilities of the audience has shifted since the new millennia. Multicam feels claustrophobic to the modern audience and that’s one of the main aesthetics of retro trek.
The other thing is that every Trek series, aside from DS9, depicts a pretty rigid, hierarchical, militaristic environment. Maybe not as much as Klingons or Cardassians but I think this setting, the nomenclature, the general vibe is becoming alienating to a modern audience. Keep in mind, people have become highly cynical toward predominately white and Westernized institutions, and the Federation is very much that. It feels like America with Aliens on board. English is the only language ever really spoken aside from some alien languages.
In my opinion, there needs to be a show that pulls heavily from DS9 while maintaining some of that optimism and sincerity we love from retro Trek. It needs to oscillate between these juxtaposed tones. The show should be told from the perspective of multiple equals that make consensus based decisions instead of a primary Captain like Picard, Sisko, or Janeway who supersedes all decisions. Everyone has specific roles but there is no hierarchy.
Also, remove the white savior element that retro Trek holds over many of the beings they come across in the franchise. The group, whomever they are, would be far more interesting as some kind of nomadic space commune that is extremely removed from federation involvement. If anything, I’d say at most there is one person with ties to the federation but perhaps they left for unknown reasons providing rich backstory and future storylines if they do come across the federation.
This perspective is more akin to the actual lens the average viewer sees the world. We are not making cosmic decisions, we’re just trying to survive. And, when we see the government, we see a dark looming presence hovering over us, trying to tell us the best way to live our lives, and it’s fucking annoying, right?
That should be the New Trek.
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I would lecture the little weaklings on how life was like in my day, and tell them to get off my lawn.
Star Trek was never a show for kids, so it’s not surprising kids don’t know about it. Star Wars and Harry Potter were for kids
Star Trek has always been more about solving things without violence when possible, which means action sequences don’t happen often, so a significant portion of people won’t find any interest in it.
To me, personally, Trek fails at simply not having “anything really going on”. I don’t know about more recent Trek shows, but there’s never anything that feels like a real threat, or any threat that goes beyond 2 episodes. Some of the exploration feels like “Oh, we’re just fucking bored, I guess, let’s see what we can find over that star system”, everything feels unbelievably safe. Sure, Kardassian assholes might capture you and torture you for shits and giggles, you never know when something with literal godlike powers might decide to show up and challenge the crew out of boredom, but that’s not a risk you’re at while exploring a weird world or solving a Sherlock mystery in the holodeck. For comparison: Battlestar Galactica had a permanent worry about (lack of) resources, being a fleet on the run with a single military ship to protect it against an overwhelming enemy and an “anyone could be a sleeping agent of the enemy” conflict. Not everything BSG did was good, but that overall setting and premise permeated everything.
Put another way, what would be the most common answer to “What is Star Trek about?”
I’d say it’s about a lovely utopia where everyone is equal, money and poverty are gone and progression of humanity itself became the main driving force of everyone.
Besides that it’s about many encounteers with new species, discoveries, ethical and moral questions that are (tried to be) solved for the good of everyone. It’s conversation, not conflict. It’s discovery, not extinction. It’s fairness, not exploitation. Et cetera.
And I’d counter your argumrnt. There always is some looming threat. Voyager has a gazillion of enemies, the ever hanging threat of never coming back home and being stranded for good. TNG had…well…the Borgs? Sure, there are many soap-opera-moments, like the sherlock Holmes holodeck filler-episodes, but they’re not defining elements I’d say.
Star wars is like a western in space. Pew pew instead of bang bang. No wonder it’s so much more loved than trek.
Make it episodic again, focus on the story instead of the action, and basically just do TNG, but with even better sets, costumes and make-up. Stop trying to be dark, gritty and edgy. If there is an over-arcing narrative, make it the B or C plot in most episodes, to keep it episodic by nature.
You’re basically describing Strange New Worlds 😂
I seriously keep forgetting about that one and need to watch it.
Please do. I was surprised to find it really back2theroots. I hope they finish it. And not just 3 seasons please.
And give the side characters some personality! Some of the bridge crew in Discovery literally were just a person in awesome makeup
