Meta shareholders rejected the Bitcoin plan with less than 1% in favour. The proposal called Bitcoin a hedge against inflation and weak bonds. GameStop and Metaplanet are among firms copying Saylor’s Bitcoin play.
Apart from that, well no big company or country profits from it. You’re not paying someone that’s actively trying to fuck you over. You’re not paying to fund a capitalistic villain that wants all the world money. You’re paying for an, at least the original goal was, uncensurable means of payment that’s decentralized and doesn’t rely on a government or a company.
A pseudonymous and trustless way of paying people. Believe in the maths, not a regulated entity that might seize your money at any time.
It’s the cypherpunk’s wet dream and I view it as such.
Most people only view it as investment and “ponzi scheme” because they don’t care about this. They don’t care about not giving too much power to a few individuals and don’t hate banks.
Any country can just print money and make what you have worthless, and it’s often done in poor countries as a way to wipe debts or similar bs. Crypto can shield them against that, which is probably the reason why it’s more used in those kind of countries (or in countries with oppressive governments)
Bitcoin is one of the cleanest cryptos. It’s old, doesn’t work that well, but it’s not owned by anyone and it has a strong identity
For anyone saying it’s only perceived value and doesn’t rely on anything, well it’s a bit like any market. How does it really differ from stocks for example? And crypto actually relies on the way of creating coins: mining, minting… which is known. If you don’t agree with it, don’t use it. The limited number of coins plays an important role in the price.
For example, I mainly hold crypto that I’ll be using for payments, or those I deem technologically interesting.
I’ve already made many crypto payments, know how they pretty much work, and prefer using them than paying by card, because fuck the banking system and those greedy visa/mastercard that takes huge cuts from payments. Also, anonymity benefit: don’t always want my name to be known, for example when donating to an individual or particular cause
I do hope you’re being real careful with your opsec if anonymity is important to you. Generally speaking, more people will know who paid who with crypto compared to bank transfers. Chains like Monero are an exception of course and yes, there are ways to anonymize other wallets too, but it requires a great deal of care, more than I personally trust myself.
You’ve got a valid point for the card payments where there are huge fees the merchant has to pay (nearly 2% for many I think), but bank transfers are infinitely cheaper (free) and instant, compared to paying gas fees and waiting. Obviously this is not true for all banking systems yet, but it’s getting there.
Chains like Monero are an exception of course and yes, there are ways to anonymize other wallets too, but it requires a great deal of care, more than I personally trust myself.
No worries, you got an XMR fan here. Churning and swapping to remove all leads
My biggest problem with card payments is the fixed fee, which, for small payments, is enormous. When I donate to some content creator, I hate that 30% of what I send is cut into various fees, and that’s even before VAT and tax.
Gas fees are only a thing in some cryptos. BCH, LTC, XMR have nearly non-existent fees.
Wire bank transfers suck big time. Enormous fees when sending to foreign countries, and it’s also super slow.
Well in the EU you get instant free payments through SEPA and the US is trying to implement something similar with FedNow. Doesn’t solve the cross border issues, but Wise does once you can get the money on Wise. I get paid in dollars via ACH and they become euros real fast once I see them in my account. 1000 dollars converted is just under 3 dollars in fees and then the transfer from Wise to any other SEPA account is free and instant.
Now crypto could very well make this all even smoother worldwide but unfortunately we have governments and they like to see what’s going on. So no reputable merchants will ever be able to take XMR payments in most countries.
I think they didnt say part of their reasoning. Crypto is useful to buy things that are either illegal or not socially acceptable/available in your local area.
It enables this, yes. Some may like it, some don’t.
I believe I should be free to buy porn, weed or start a seedbox. Not that I will do it, but being able to use the currency for what I deem acceptable gives a big feeling of freedom.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” in that the proof of work aspect encourages miners to keep adding more hash rate to the network so long as it is profitable to do so and not whether the network actually needs it. It takes crazy amounts of energy for simple transactions.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” in that proof of stake algorithms (like Ether) is just a plot for the rich to get richer and favor early adopters who have more coins.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” in that it’s controlled by technology and not laws and can’t be fixed. Someone stealing it is more likely to get away with it because it’s not like a company can just revert fraud.
Someone can say crypto “is a scam” because it doesn’t hold value. Stocks do hold value because you own a portion of that company and if they don’t reinvest their profits you get dividends. Money does hold value because even in the absence of a gold standard we’ve been using it long enough that it’s so ingrained in everything and everyone agrees it has value. Money has value in that the massive amount of financial regulations surrounding it creates a more stable value. Not everyone agrees crypto has value. Crypto is hardly regulated. Crypto wildly fluctuates in price.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” because it is often used in scams and makes it easier for scammers to be anonymous and lock down funds they steal.
These are all the ways I could think of off the top of my head. I don’t because agree with all of them, and some I think are more valid arguments than others. The last one being the weakest since it feels odd to say scam instead of a trap or something.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” in that the proof of work aspect encourages miners to keep adding more hash rate to the network so long as it is profitable to do so and not whether the network actually needs it. It takes crazy amounts of energy for simple transactions.
I don’t see how it makes it a scam. But anyways, by definition, a bigger hash rate is always good.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” in that proof of stake algorithms (like Ether) is just a plot for the rich to get richer and favor early adopters who have more coins.
You mean just like stocks, and banks, and real estate, and investing? Doesn’t make it a scam either. Find better algorithms. Crypto works because people use it. If something is better for everyone, it’ll end up gaining traction.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” in that it’s controlled by technology and not laws and can’t be fixed. Someone stealing it is more likely to get away with it because it’s not like a company can just revert fraud.
I could see a valid reason in this but when you get into crypto, you know what to expect. I feel like I have been personally scammed by the banking system and PayPal through abusive reversals, which funnily enough, is fraud caused by the anti fraud system. Many people abuse this stuff.
For the crypto value thing. Well yea. Not everyone agrees it has value, but that stands for pretty much everything. You could draw a parallel with art. Most people don’t give a fuck about your black and blue painting that apparently costs millions. People might also not care about a blue spider hat. It doesn’t make it a scam in any way. If people pay, then it has value to them. No one forced them to buy crypto. They’re not a great value store, they’re a risky investment and usage product, just like stocks. It doesn’t make it a scam.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” because it is often used in scams and makes it easier for scammers to be anonymous and lock down funds they steal.
Not a scam but it would be a valid reason to hate it. Cash is the same. Government seizing crypto because it was linked at some point to a scam even though you’re not linked to it is a scam imo.
I’m not really convinced by any of these reasons. They’re valid reason not to like crypto, but none of them makes it a scam.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” in that proof of stake algorithms (like Ether) is just a plot for the rich to get richer and favor early adopters who have more coins.
You mean just like stocks, and banks, and real estate, and investing? Doesn’t make it a scam either. Find better algorithms. Crypto works because people use it. If something is better for everyone, it’ll end up gaining traction.
No, stocks, banks, and real estate do not give you more of themselves by mere fact of owning them. Some stocks pay dividends, but you don’t get more stock for owning it, setting something up to buy more with dividends is your own decision. Banks give you interest, but that is not a function of how money works, that’s something the bank does. Owning property does not give you more property over time. None of these are like how a proof of stake algorithm works.
Do I think it makes it a scam? No, not really. Do I think people saying it’s a scam because of that are wildly off base? Fuck no. It’s valid to be concerned about it. Do I think it’s better than proof of work? Yeah, probably. The arms race of increasing hash rate so long as it’s profitable energy wise is pretty nasty.
Your statement is technically true for everything you buy. You make the market price go up, so every owner benefits from it if they intend to sell at some point
It’s the same for stocks, it’s the same for houses. Welcome to economics
It would be better to state how it is a scam
Apart from that, well no big company or country profits from it. You’re not paying someone that’s actively trying to fuck you over. You’re not paying to fund a capitalistic villain that wants all the world money. You’re paying for an, at least the original goal was, uncensurable means of payment that’s decentralized and doesn’t rely on a government or a company.
A pseudonymous and trustless way of paying people. Believe in the maths, not a regulated entity that might seize your money at any time.
It’s the cypherpunk’s wet dream and I view it as such.
Most people only view it as investment and “ponzi scheme” because they don’t care about this. They don’t care about not giving too much power to a few individuals and don’t hate banks.
Any country can just print money and make what you have worthless, and it’s often done in poor countries as a way to wipe debts or similar bs. Crypto can shield them against that, which is probably the reason why it’s more used in those kind of countries (or in countries with oppressive governments)
Bitcoin is one of the cleanest cryptos. It’s old, doesn’t work that well, but it’s not owned by anyone and it has a strong identity
For anyone saying it’s only perceived value and doesn’t rely on anything, well it’s a bit like any market. How does it really differ from stocks for example? And crypto actually relies on the way of creating coins: mining, minting… which is known. If you don’t agree with it, don’t use it. The limited number of coins plays an important role in the price.
For example, I mainly hold crypto that I’ll be using for payments, or those I deem technologically interesting.
I’ve already made many crypto payments, know how they pretty much work, and prefer using them than paying by card, because fuck the banking system and those greedy visa/mastercard that takes huge cuts from payments. Also, anonymity benefit: don’t always want my name to be known, for example when donating to an individual or particular cause
I do hope you’re being real careful with your opsec if anonymity is important to you. Generally speaking, more people will know who paid who with crypto compared to bank transfers. Chains like Monero are an exception of course and yes, there are ways to anonymize other wallets too, but it requires a great deal of care, more than I personally trust myself.
You’ve got a valid point for the card payments where there are huge fees the merchant has to pay (nearly 2% for many I think), but bank transfers are infinitely cheaper (free) and instant, compared to paying gas fees and waiting. Obviously this is not true for all banking systems yet, but it’s getting there.
No worries, you got an XMR fan here. Churning and swapping to remove all leads
My biggest problem with card payments is the fixed fee, which, for small payments, is enormous. When I donate to some content creator, I hate that 30% of what I send is cut into various fees, and that’s even before VAT and tax.
Gas fees are only a thing in some cryptos. BCH, LTC, XMR have nearly non-existent fees.
Wire bank transfers suck big time. Enormous fees when sending to foreign countries, and it’s also super slow.
Well in the EU you get instant free payments through SEPA and the US is trying to implement something similar with FedNow. Doesn’t solve the cross border issues, but Wise does once you can get the money on Wise. I get paid in dollars via ACH and they become euros real fast once I see them in my account. 1000 dollars converted is just under 3 dollars in fees and then the transfer from Wise to any other SEPA account is free and instant.
Now crypto could very well make this all even smoother worldwide but unfortunately we have governments and they like to see what’s going on. So no reputable merchants will ever be able to take XMR payments in most countries.
I think they didnt say part of their reasoning. Crypto is useful to buy things that are either illegal or not socially acceptable/available in your local area.
Absolutely - if you’re good about your opsec. If you’re not, it’s almost worse than a bank transaction and for sure worse than cash.
It enables this, yes. Some may like it, some don’t.
I believe I should be free to buy porn, weed or start a seedbox. Not that I will do it, but being able to use the currency for what I deem acceptable gives a big feeling of freedom.
Very true, although I don’t think freedom is always a good thing.
They extra costs of creditcards is why I use a modern bankcard, but the US is really behind on that so for some things I need to use my CC
Wdym by “modern bankcard”? And I feel like the USA are pretty good in terms of crypto
A chipped bank card aka what the rest of us use with modern standards like 2FA etc
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” in that the proof of work aspect encourages miners to keep adding more hash rate to the network so long as it is profitable to do so and not whether the network actually needs it. It takes crazy amounts of energy for simple transactions.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” in that proof of stake algorithms (like Ether) is just a plot for the rich to get richer and favor early adopters who have more coins.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” in that it’s controlled by technology and not laws and can’t be fixed. Someone stealing it is more likely to get away with it because it’s not like a company can just revert fraud.
Someone can say crypto “is a scam” because it doesn’t hold value. Stocks do hold value because you own a portion of that company and if they don’t reinvest their profits you get dividends. Money does hold value because even in the absence of a gold standard we’ve been using it long enough that it’s so ingrained in everything and everyone agrees it has value. Money has value in that the massive amount of financial regulations surrounding it creates a more stable value. Not everyone agrees crypto has value. Crypto is hardly regulated. Crypto wildly fluctuates in price.
Someone could say crypto “is a scam” because it is often used in scams and makes it easier for scammers to be anonymous and lock down funds they steal.
These are all the ways I could think of off the top of my head. I don’t because agree with all of them, and some I think are more valid arguments than others. The last one being the weakest since it feels odd to say scam instead of a trap or something.
I don’t see how it makes it a scam. But anyways, by definition, a bigger hash rate is always good.
You mean just like stocks, and banks, and real estate, and investing? Doesn’t make it a scam either. Find better algorithms. Crypto works because people use it. If something is better for everyone, it’ll end up gaining traction.
I could see a valid reason in this but when you get into crypto, you know what to expect. I feel like I have been personally scammed by the banking system and PayPal through abusive reversals, which funnily enough, is fraud caused by the anti fraud system. Many people abuse this stuff.
For the crypto value thing. Well yea. Not everyone agrees it has value, but that stands for pretty much everything. You could draw a parallel with art. Most people don’t give a fuck about your black and blue painting that apparently costs millions. People might also not care about a blue spider hat. It doesn’t make it a scam in any way. If people pay, then it has value to them. No one forced them to buy crypto. They’re not a great value store, they’re a risky investment and usage product, just like stocks. It doesn’t make it a scam.
Not a scam but it would be a valid reason to hate it. Cash is the same. Government seizing crypto because it was linked at some point to a scam even though you’re not linked to it is a scam imo.
I’m not really convinced by any of these reasons. They’re valid reason not to like crypto, but none of them makes it a scam.
No, stocks, banks, and real estate do not give you more of themselves by mere fact of owning them. Some stocks pay dividends, but you don’t get more stock for owning it, setting something up to buy more with dividends is your own decision. Banks give you interest, but that is not a function of how money works, that’s something the bank does. Owning property does not give you more property over time. None of these are like how a proof of stake algorithm works.
Do I think it makes it a scam? No, not really. Do I think people saying it’s a scam because of that are wildly off base? Fuck no. It’s valid to be concerned about it. Do I think it’s better than proof of work? Yeah, probably. The arms race of increasing hash rate so long as it’s profitable energy wise is pretty nasty.
I don’t agree with your first paragraph. It’s virtually the same as banks and stocks.
So is owning ETH… all ETH is not staked. And even if it was, how does it matter? In the end everyone gains the same percentage.
Apart from that, everyone uses compounding interests and most people reinvests dividends.
You’re free to unstake your ETH at any point.
What putting money into crypto does is empower early bitcoin speculators
Your statement is technically true for everything you buy. You make the market price go up, so every owner benefits from it if they intend to sell at some point
It’s the same for stocks, it’s the same for houses. Welcome to economics
Right, but definitely not a ponzi scheme. Also, proof of stake is also definitely not a ponzi scheme.
Low effort troll
It’s a joke. Trolling implies intent to deceive or get a negative reaction.