Maybe but electoral outcomes can take decades to work out the consequences they have to live with, so it makes some sense.to allow them to have a voice.
When i voted my first time at 18 i wasn’t engaged in either the process or the candidates, it took another couple years, so maybe by the time they’re 18-20 they will take it seriously and be more engaged rather then by the time i was 22-24.
As a 60 yr old, lefty, I don’t think an 80 yr old should have the vote. They had their chance for many, many decades.
When i voted my first time at 18 i wasn’t engaged in either the process or the candidates, it took another couple years, so maybe by the time they’re 18-20 they will take it seriously and be more engaged rather then by the time i was 22-24.
I had the same experience at 18, and it wasn’t even a decade ago. this is a reason I think we should increase the age limit, if we touch it at all.
Having said that, I’m finding some of the arguments the other way here fairly convincing.
But conversely, I remember in 2010 I asked a youth group what they thought the main parties were about. They said that Labour were about making education better and the Conservatives were about making the NHS better. None of them remembered that the Conservatives massively underfunded the NHS and always prioritised tax cuts over public services. I was right. They were wrong.
If you pay (edit: income) tax, you should have the right to vote. I’m not convinced by all of the catastrophizing about it. Turning 16 unlocks a lot of rights and privileges in the UK and I have faith that teenagers won’t be the reason that quality of life worsens.
everyone who buys something in a shop also pays tax, because of VAT. should little Billy, 9 years old, be able to vote because ma’ asked him to help her and buy a loaf of bread?
other options include either making it so that teens under 18 can work tax free, or banning people under 18 from working for money (probably the same as the other point practically while also enraging the teens), but I’m afraid that would incentivise more work instead of studying and socialization.
so, by this logic, we either fuck up their youth, ban them from working, or fuck up the whole country with even more voting gullible people.
I’m not advocating for paying income tax being a requirement to vote, that’s ridiculous.
I’m arguing that people who are 16 are already afforded many of the rights and responsibilities (such as being able to work, join the military, get married with a parent’s permission, etc.) that come with the concept of “adulthood” and so they should also be allowed to vote.
You’re entirely missing the implicit reasoning behind my position with this comment. Hopefully you’ll understand it more now that I’ve spelled it out, but if you still disagree, honestly I don’t care and this is happening regardless.
You realize your argument here is the same argument used against women being able to vote and black people being able to vote and a numerous others right? They’re too gullible. They’re not intelligent enough. They’ll just do what they’re told. All arguments that we’ve heard before.
I don’t agree. I think it’s a pretty glaring large difference that we don’t ban anyone from voting for life, but until they at least start to get mature, with an age limit that is the same across white young man, white young woman and black young people.
Honestly I have no idea whatsoever how did you conclude that I’m racist. I really can’t help but think that you have already decided that I and everything I think is bad.
I mean…the youth in general don’t usually come out for elections, but I’d like to think that when they do, they’ll be voting for their own long-term best interests. When it comes to gullibility, plenty of older people fall for scams and cults all the time, I mean shit, look at Brexit, a case where mostly older voters voted for something they probably didn’t do too much research into a side from watching a political ad and just outright believing it. If impulsivity was a problem, then older people can have that problem too. Plus…you’re talking about 9 year olds? Really? It’s absurd to make the argument that the group of youths a mere 1-2 years before the 18 year old adulthood designation gaining voting rights would be the same as 9 year old children gaining the right to vote.
I mean…the youth in general don’t usually come out for elections,
its just a tiktok short away. it’ll also be much more efficient in telling them who to vote for than government tv channels were at any point
Plus…you’re talking about 9 year olds? Really? It’s absurd to make the argument that the group of youths a mere 1-2 years before the 18 year old adulthood designation gaining voting rights would be the same as 9 year old children gaining the right to vote.
obviously not. they were talking about taxpayers. everyone is a taxpayer when buying something in the shop. yes I see their edit now.
I’m really not sure about that, even if not considering the relation of people from that age to personalized manipulative social media.
Maybe but electoral outcomes can take decades to work out the consequences they have to live with, so it makes some sense.to allow them to have a voice.
When i voted my first time at 18 i wasn’t engaged in either the process or the candidates, it took another couple years, so maybe by the time they’re 18-20 they will take it seriously and be more engaged rather then by the time i was 22-24.
As a 60 yr old, lefty, I don’t think an 80 yr old should have the vote. They had their chance for many, many decades.
I had the same experience at 18, and it wasn’t even a decade ago. this is a reason I think we should increase the age limit, if we touch it at all.
So much this. 16 year olds rarely know (or care) much about politics, AT ALL.
This will make it much more likely that young people will acquire the habit of not voting.
Make them wait till they want it.
Having said that, I’m finding some of the arguments the other way here fairly convincing.
But conversely, I remember in 2010 I asked a youth group what they thought the main parties were about. They said that Labour were about making education better and the Conservatives were about making the NHS better. None of them remembered that the Conservatives massively underfunded the NHS and always prioritised tax cuts over public services. I was right. They were wrong.
If you pay (edit: income) tax, you should have the right to vote. I’m not convinced by all of the catastrophizing about it. Turning 16 unlocks a lot of rights and privileges in the UK and I have faith that teenagers won’t be the reason that quality of life worsens.
everyone who buys something in a shop also pays tax, because of VAT. should little Billy, 9 years old, be able to vote because ma’ asked him to help her and buy a loaf of bread?
other options include either making it so that teens under 18 can work tax free, or banning people under 18 from working for money (probably the same as the other point practically while also enraging the teens), but I’m afraid that would incentivise more work instead of studying and socialization.
so, by this logic, we either fuck up their youth, ban them from working, or fuck up the whole country with even more voting gullible people.
Sorry, I meant income tax. So little Billy will not be able to vote. My bad, Billy.
I knew what you meant, I also think that statement was wrong just for the fact that the money Billy used was not his own anyway.
The only issue i see with income tax is what about the people who don’t earn any income?
I’m not advocating for paying income tax being a requirement to vote, that’s ridiculous.
I’m arguing that people who are 16 are already afforded many of the rights and responsibilities (such as being able to work, join the military, get married with a parent’s permission, etc.) that come with the concept of “adulthood” and so they should also be allowed to vote.
You’re entirely missing the implicit reasoning behind my position with this comment. Hopefully you’ll understand it more now that I’ve spelled it out, but if you still disagree, honestly I don’t care and this is happening regardless.
Nope, not at all. I agree with you. I was just throwing crap out there as a hypothetical to what was said.
You realize your argument here is the same argument used against women being able to vote and black people being able to vote and a numerous others right? They’re too gullible. They’re not intelligent enough. They’ll just do what they’re told. All arguments that we’ve heard before.
I don’t agree. I think it’s a pretty glaring large difference that we don’t ban anyone from voting for life, but until they at least start to get mature, with an age limit that is the same across white young man, white young woman and black young people.
Honestly I have no idea whatsoever how did you conclude that I’m racist. I really can’t help but think that you have already decided that I and everything I think is bad.
I mean…the youth in general don’t usually come out for elections, but I’d like to think that when they do, they’ll be voting for their own long-term best interests. When it comes to gullibility, plenty of older people fall for scams and cults all the time, I mean shit, look at Brexit, a case where mostly older voters voted for something they probably didn’t do too much research into a side from watching a political ad and just outright believing it. If impulsivity was a problem, then older people can have that problem too. Plus…you’re talking about 9 year olds? Really? It’s absurd to make the argument that the group of youths a mere 1-2 years before the 18 year old adulthood designation gaining voting rights would be the same as 9 year old children gaining the right to vote.
its just a tiktok short away. it’ll also be much more efficient in telling them who to vote for than government tv channels were at any point
obviously not. they were talking about taxpayers. everyone is a taxpayer when buying something in the shop. yes I see their edit now.