This is an interesting prompt. I am fascinated by ancient Rome, both the memes and serious history, and I know for sure that I’m not a member of the alt-right (you might not believe me but that’s irrelevant to my analysis of myself). So why do I find Rome so interesting?
Part of the reason is due to the fact that Rome was powerful. I suppose that I share this with the alt-right but I don’t think that it is an inherently alt-right way of thinking. Ideologies, forms of government, and ways of organizing society must be able to compete in terms of raw power. Ancient Rome was, in these terms, exceptionally successful. It isn’t sufficient for my modern-day values to be in accordance with my moral sense, which is very different from the moral sense of an ancient Roman. My values must also lead to, or at least be consistent with, a society that is able to exert more power (military, economic, and cultural) than other societies organized along different values. Looking at Rome is a way to see what that can look like.
With that said, the western world, organized largely in accord with liberal values which I share, has been not just the best place to live in all of human history but also the most powerful in this sense. I think the alt-right, to the extent that they prefer other values (like ancient Roman ones), are largely fools: the west in general and the USA in particular are far stronger than Rome ever was. This ties into the second part of the reason Rome is interesting: the Republic ended not at a time when it was under threat from external enemies (it was, in many ways, at its strongest when it was the most threatened) but rather at the height of its wealth and power - most of what we think of as the “Empire” was already conquered by then. Then the Empire declined and fell largely because of infighting (although the full explanation for the collapse is a lot more complicated and, frankly, beyond my level of historical expertise). Romans were each other’s worst enemies. And when the Empire fell, it fell far. Things got a lot worse, not just for the Roman elite but for almost everyone, rich and poor. We’re a lot higher up than they ever were so we have a lot further to fall, and yet a lot of people are willing to risk the integrity of our society due to a short-sighted view of history that fails to appreciate how good we do, in fact, have it. The alt-right is among these foolish people - I am lower-case-c conservative because I oppose making large, sudden changes, but the alt-right is not conservative in this sense.
Then the final part of the reason is that Rome is both alien and familiar - Roman ideas and aesthetics were deliberately preserved and spread, so that they are familiar to me in the modern day. Other ancient empires like China are also a source of useful lessons, and I’m sure they’re fascinating to people who know enough to appreciate them, but to me they are far more alien and so I don’t. If I were a professional historian, that wouldn’t be an excuse, but I’m not so I prefer to read and think about Rome.
With that said, the western world, organized largely in accord with liberal values which I share, has been not just the best place to live in all of human history but also the most powerful in this sense.
Oh he’s saying the Western world today is better than living anywhere else in human history. Yeah that’s not unreasonable but also a bit of a pointless comparison. I’d rather be well off in several non Western countries than be poor in a Western country, especially America.
My initial interpretation was that the Western world has always been the best place to live in human history which is a hard sell to say the least.
The Punt Empire. An empire so antithetical to Western values that the British Library sponsored a genocidial campaign in Africa to erase evidence of its existence.
The Punt Empire. An empire so antithetical to Western values that the British Library sponsored a genocidial campaign in Africa to erase evidence of its existence.
This is an interesting prompt. I am fascinated by ancient Rome, both the memes and serious history, and I know for sure that I’m not a member of the alt-right (you might not believe me but that’s irrelevant to my analysis of myself). So why do I find Rome so interesting?
Part of the reason is due to the fact that Rome was powerful. I suppose that I share this with the alt-right but I don’t think that it is an inherently alt-right way of thinking. Ideologies, forms of government, and ways of organizing society must be able to compete in terms of raw power. Ancient Rome was, in these terms, exceptionally successful. It isn’t sufficient for my modern-day values to be in accordance with my moral sense, which is very different from the moral sense of an ancient Roman. My values must also lead to, or at least be consistent with, a society that is able to exert more power (military, economic, and cultural) than other societies organized along different values. Looking at Rome is a way to see what that can look like.
With that said, the western world, organized largely in accord with liberal values which I share, has been not just the best place to live in all of human history but also the most powerful in this sense. I think the alt-right, to the extent that they prefer other values (like ancient Roman ones), are largely fools: the west in general and the USA in particular are far stronger than Rome ever was. This ties into the second part of the reason Rome is interesting: the Republic ended not at a time when it was under threat from external enemies (it was, in many ways, at its strongest when it was the most threatened) but rather at the height of its wealth and power - most of what we think of as the “Empire” was already conquered by then. Then the Empire declined and fell largely because of infighting (although the full explanation for the collapse is a lot more complicated and, frankly, beyond my level of historical expertise). Romans were each other’s worst enemies. And when the Empire fell, it fell far. Things got a lot worse, not just for the Roman elite but for almost everyone, rich and poor. We’re a lot higher up than they ever were so we have a lot further to fall, and yet a lot of people are willing to risk the integrity of our society due to a short-sighted view of history that fails to appreciate how good we do, in fact, have it. The alt-right is among these foolish people - I am lower-case-c conservative because I oppose making large, sudden changes, but the alt-right is not conservative in this sense.
Then the final part of the reason is that Rome is both alien and familiar - Roman ideas and aesthetics were deliberately preserved and spread, so that they are familiar to me in the modern day. Other ancient empires like China are also a source of useful lessons, and I’m sure they’re fascinating to people who know enough to appreciate them, but to me they are far more alien and so I don’t. If I were a professional historian, that wouldn’t be an excuse, but I’m not so I prefer to read and think about Rome.
Hard [X] Doubt on that one.
What would be the better place to live in human history?
I mean, we can truthfully say it’s damnation by faint praise to say as much, but I struggle to think of a better time.
Oh he’s saying the Western world today is better than living anywhere else in human history. Yeah that’s not unreasonable but also a bit of a pointless comparison. I’d rather be well off in several non Western countries than be poor in a Western country, especially America.
My initial interpretation was that the Western world has always been the best place to live in human history which is a hard sell to say the least.
Ah, yeah, that would be extremely questionable at best.
The Punt Empire. An empire so antithetical to Western values that the British Library sponsored a genocidial campaign in Africa to erase evidence of its existence.
What?