Riders of Rohan, What News from the Mark?
I was trying to think for a couple days on what can be done to make Linux phones a reality. Then I realized the EU is already pushing for more Open Source/ Linux to be used so why not make the most of it?
So if I may make a couple suggestions for Europe Linux enthusiasts and collectively all of us to push for:
1st. For EU and Europe to partner up with PostmarketOS, Mobian, Ubuntu Touch, Edited In: Next Iteration of GrapheneOS for their partnership, and FSF Librephone Project to fund/produce/distribute open source repairable changable OS linux phones . Then for future tablets. To have multiple eggs developing
2nd. For EU and Europe to partner up with KDE, Framework, and Tuxedo Computers to fund/produce/distribute Laptops/Computers
Edited In: 3rd. Partner up with OEM Manufacturers such as Nokia and Motorola. Both of whom have good track records
Linux Community over there has so much ability to grow Linux if everyone there collectively gets it done. I humbly request you do that and I’ll do the same. Who should I call to get all this going as well? Want to help do this in a way that benefits all sides while keeping those projects independent
(I would have posted this on LinuxPhone but this community is way bigger and still open source related)
Really hoping all of you in and out of Europe and EU can push for it to be done. Edited In: Maybe Latin, African, and Asian Countries can partner up as well to make it happen even faster. But the most protections are within the EU so far
“Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, You’re My Only Hope”
The problem are not the distros, not even the phones itself. The problem is that these FOSS/privacy phone manufacturers don’t sell their stuff through local e-shops like Alza. This is what hurts their adoption. Yeah, they lose 30% (or whatever percentage they have in the contract with the store) but this will recoup itself in the long run.
This is doing business 101. Don’t think short term, think long term.
Libre Phone is already being started in terms of development. Good ideas though.
i’m all for linux phones, android becomes locked down by google, iOS is proprietary and dumbphones seem like an unnecessary burden if you wanna participate in society.
But i oppose the inclusion of any state in FOSS development. The EU is constantly pushing for chat control, Germany uses Palantir and ACTA was a thing. The EU could flip in the next election cycle and make backdoors mandatory or cut funding and cause the collapse of active development which relies on EU funding if their demands are not met.
But i’m no developer, i’m just an active user so i can’t have an informed opinion on that.
Governments do not have to be involved in projects to pass laws that impact them.
I would argue greater EU participation in FOSS would improve the situation. One, the number of people in the government that understand how FOSS works may increase and frankly ignorance is often the problem. Second, if lawmakers themselves or the things they care about rely on FOSS, they will be much less likely to kick the legs out from under it.
From a code perspective, the risk is low. If it is just that they add back doors (not because it is the law), we simply create versions without those back doors and use that instead.
I do not think that developers have any greater insight into social or legal issues than you do.
Europe… the guys that want backdoors into all encrypted communication… the guys that want to give Google a big fat contract for app attestatio for their age verification apps…
Europe…? You guys thought of Europe? I feel like the entire EU policy right now is anathema to an Open Source Phone
“Europe… the guys that want backdoor into all encrypted communications” is a weird thing to say considering that every attempt of such a law failed because they didn’t have the majority.
“Europe… where a minority of politicians have continually failled to get a backdoor into all encrypted communications” would be far more accurate.
The rejection of the bill wasn’t on principle, but technicalities, the bill will be back with edits, Denmark is already aiming for December
Oh interesting, technicalities like? I wrote to a bunch of politicians and I was assured that they rejected it on principle.
Maybe they lied to me. But why would they lie to me but not the general public? Maybe the EU is a bunch of politicians and they all have their own opinions.
Depends on the country, of course there were politicians that disagreed on principle, but the voting on the issue wasn’t done by MEPs , if it’s MEPs you messaged
Europe… the guys that want backdoors into all encrypted communication
Europe… the guys who rejected a proposal to put back doors into all encrypted communication.
The rejection of the bill wasn’t on principle, but technicalities, if you look at most countries that opposed, the bill will be back with edits, Denmark is already aiming for December
You’re right, but it’s more nuanced than that.
The EU is like a Hydra. Some heads are consumer facing, others are population control facing.
Success would mean distracting the control heads while wooing the population heads.
No easy task.
I can see that, tbf, thanks for the explanation
I get your point but I mean any countries actually lead by people who want better whether it is Europe or other countries such as Latin America, Africa, or Asia. I’m just getting the ball rolling. Genuinely asking, do you know other countries with stronger protections? Also those things are getting blocked from happening even though they keep trying. It still stands they are moving away from big tech and switching to open source alternatives which is an opportunity. Doing nothing won’t grow the ecosystem and this is one many possibilities to grow altogether. Very often things worth fighting for are not easy
We can do it with multiple countries as well to make it less centralized of an effort
We’d need to provide a reason for them to want a Linux phone. What use could a politician have for such a phone? We need to find good, strong reasons for it.
Sovereignty is the big thing right now. Supply chain attacks too.
Is there maybe a cost projection we could provide?
But also, how can it tir into other goals? If it’s just disconnected from everything, it probably won’t get much steam. Crosscutting concerns have to be tackled with a Linux phone. Concerns that’s are tangible and not philosophical or ethical.
- a lot of new jobs. Developers, support, etc. All European people
- money, a lot of money. People pay apple a shitload of money for the phone even though they can get the same for half the price. That money could go to a european company.
- prestige. Politicians love glory
Tech sovereignty is one of the main ‘practical’ reasons why the pivot to FOSS is happening in the EU at the moment. I think this would be the strongest incentive, especially with the US increasingly being a less reliable geopolitical partner of the EU.
“Donald Trump won’t see your messages”.
Those are some great points listed! And ha too true for last one
That is a great way to look at the problem I’ll do some brainstorming and see if I can think of anything else
Well we can organise, set up a non profit (this also lets us bypass CC2 if its ever enacted). I’ve been thinking about this for a while and already have a framework for statues and a draft for a mission statement. If done correctly there are country and EU grants that can help (yes, I spent some time looking through grant processes). What I mean to say is; you have my axe
Speak friend, and enter. Double tap chest in sign of respect
That’s a great initiative to setup. Do you know anyone with experience for that or do you plan to set it up? Would love for that to become a thing and can see many people rallying with you to get it done
More Quotes: What about side by side with a friend? My friends you bow to no one. I can’t carry it for you but I can carry you
Well since I’m located in Sweden I’ve initially focused on how to set up a non profit organisation here. And the process is pretty straight forward. Until you get to taxes, salaries, expences and such. Even if you are a non profit you still need to pay employer fees, taxes on salaries and pensions, if you have employees or any salaried personnel or consultants. If they are volunteers but have expences well they need to be declared. But all that would be normal business for an accounting.(I’m not an accountant)
Basically to get started you need to have a charter, voted on at the first board meeting. After that your organisation is born. Then comes registration, getting an organisation number, setting upp tax accounts, bank accounts, seeking grants and subsidies, an office(for lack of a better word) if needed. Also the non profit needs to have a mission that is to the benifit of society, a bit of a open interpretation here, but it can’t just be “let’s have a we three men go on fishing trips non profit”. Oh and yes it needs to be open for anyone to join (there are exceptions here. But that needs to be stipulated in the charter. Think a historical society, excluding history revisionists, or that dude from ancient aliens).
Hmmm well for what I know so far based on your very thorough you seem capable and will be if not yet. Anything can be figured out and you look like you have done the pre-work to know what to do. Now you just need a team of people to back you up and consistent action to get it done (I’m not an accountant either haha) But I am hopeful you can do it or assist another person who wants to do that to do the same. Whichever you prefer
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i am still not convinced about a linux phone.
Or rather this already exist, GrapheneOS is a thing. And they are even working on a partnership with an oem manufacturer.
I dont see what use case there is, that is not super niche, that justifis having and developing a “linux phone”, instead of an actual secure device, which graphenOs already provides.
It would be PostmarketOS, Plasma, Ubuntu Touch, … not GrapheneOS.
GrapheneOS is still based on Android, with all its restrictions and annoyances. I want a free device more than a secure one.
Andorid can be forked any day, can it not?
Very true and agree GrapheneOS is awesome and a very good thing they are doing with that partnership. Europe can partner with GrapheneOS as well since you mentioned them.
Security and privacy are both fundamental and even though they are behind compared to GrapheneOS it does not mean we can’t catch up. Alternatives are a part of life whether it is picking where to live, what/where to buy, what to buy for ingredients to make food, etc. The use case is they want to use open source already for sovereignty and long-term they will be just as good as GrapheneOS in long-term.
Yet we cannot rely on just 1 egg we need a whole nest of them so any of them can have a chance of succeeding. The ones in post mentioned don’t have an oem manufacturer partnered with yet either
Europe can’t, nor will partner with Graphene OS because 1) Graphene OS likely won’t exist in 5 years with android becoming more and more closed, and 2) Graphene OS is still forced to use:
- Google phones
- proprietary android drivers
- proprietary Google services via shared accounts for some services
- manufacturer baseband modems, which are closed and very few people know how much data they send and where
I applaud your initiative and enthusiasm, but there are significantly more hurdles than simply convincing the EU to partner with a few companies.
If you are serious about this, start looking at projects Steam is supporting (like Proton) and figure put how we can get more developer time into existing Linux phone solutions.
